[0.22] UbioZur Welding Ltd. 2.0 Dev STOPPED

[johnsonwax]

Having some experience with manually welding parts, parts cannot accept multiple welded docking ports. KSP assumes that a port can dock or not dock, and the orientation of the part matters for docking, for MJ to understand orientation, etc. Also, the COM shifts quite a lot which impacts how the docking port works. Once you weld the docking port on, KSP it loses a fair bit of it's utility as a docking port. Lights and RCS ports do work perfectly when welded, however. Engines often don't work well, so I don't weld those either.

I would also advise against welding a lot of the smaller parts as Ringkeeper notes. Among other things, it's handy to enable them as grabbables under KAS so you can reposition your lights and such.

But the real part savings comes from not needing struts or adaptors. You weld half a dozen structural parts together and you save 5 parts, but you probably also save half a dozen struts and an adaptor or two. Even though struts don't have mass, they do require physics calculations, and that's what's killing FPS.

If you have an orbital service vehicle like a tug that you will keep stationed on a station that you're assembling, I do like to weld that together as much as possible. I'll usually get it down to 3 parts - docking/everything else/small engine. I'll weld the lights and RCS on and all of the assorted other bits because if I have an interplanetary ship docking with my large station, I'll be pushing part count, so I try to keep those service vessels as low count as possible. If I want to change it, rather than relying on grabbables, I'll just deorbit it and send up a revised one. I don't want to do that with the station, or even part of a station. So, picking battles...

[UbioZur]

is the multiple modules (ex. multiple lights, wheels, etc) going to be fixed in the next version?

also, I can't seem to get my parts to attach any other way but radially, what am I doing wrong?

Some of the old modules won't be allowed by KSP (unless some fix can be done by squad), some of the newer ones are possible.

I'm thinking maybe some kind of phantom part can bypass the issue with multiple modules, animations and more. A part that only has a mesh and colliders but when you mouse over the various sub-parts would allow you to access their individual context menus.

That would be neat, not sure if it could be done currently.

i dont get it , why everyone wants to weld lights etc together. Welding is perfect for structural parts and not for cosmetic stuff, for stuff, that would otherwise fall apart.

Also in RL you dont weld lights to a structure^^

You also dont reduce the parts per ship that much , if you try to weld everything together. Even worse, the more you weld, the more parts you have in your game , game needs longer to load and at one point it will crash cause it runs out of memory.

You should use weld for parts, that you need often in exactly this configuration.

I personaly think that the cosmetic are what use the most part count and are the less cheaty to weld if the physics is not process on them. Sadly the game won't allow it at the moment.

Also agree for the last 2 sentences.

Having some experience with manually welding parts, parts cannot accept multiple welded docking ports. KSP assumes that a port can dock or not dock, and the orientation of the part matters for docking, for MJ to understand orientation, etc. Also, the COM shifts quite a lot which impacts how the docking port works. Once you weld the docking port on, KSP it loses a fair bit of it's utility as a docking port. Lights and RCS ports do work perfectly when welded, however. Engines often don't work well, so I don't weld those either.

I would also advise against welding a lot of the smaller parts as Ringkeeper notes. Among other things, it's handy to enable them as grabbables under KAS so you can reposition your lights and such.

But the real part savings comes from not needing struts or adaptors. You weld half a dozen structural parts together and you save 5 parts, but you probably also save half a dozen struts and an adaptor or two. Even though struts don't have mass, they do require physics calculations, and that's what's killing FPS.

If you have an orbital service vehicle like a tug that you will keep stationed on a station that you're assembling, I do like to weld that together as much as possible. I'll usually get it down to 3 parts - docking/everything else/small engine. I'll weld the lights and RCS on and all of the assorted other bits because if I have an interplanetary ship docking with my large station, I'll be pushing part count, so I try to keep those service vessels as low count as possible. If I want to change it, rather than relying on grabbables, I'll just deorbit it and send up a revised one. I don't want to do that with the station, or even part of a station. So, picking battles...

I think just like you but then again, I do love seeing the crazy creation people come with.

A bit busy IRL, going to move out in a week or so and prepare my next move for the winter, so I don't have lot of time to work on it at the moment. I will post the small update I have at the moment if I don't have time to add more into it.

[Voidryder]

Hey UbioZur,

Just want to say thanks again for such a great tool. And good luck with your move.

[mrluckypants96]

Not sure if this is a bug or not, but upon saving a part that was welded together, the plugin seems to recompile all the part.cfg's of every part in the game. This causes huge framerate lag (2-3 fps) and (on my heavily modded game teetering on the 32bit RAM limit) a crash ().

[UbioZur]

Not sure if this is a bug or not, but upon saving a part that was welded together, the plugin seems to recompile all the part.cfg's of every part in the game. This causes huge framerate lag (2-3 fps) and (on my heavily modded game teetering on the 32bit RAM limit) a crash ().

Yes i do reload the all database since I haven't found a way yet to only reload the cfg I have created.

You can however, disable it in the configuration of the plugin PluginData\UbioWeldingLtd\config.xml.

[xtremeqg]

Some of the old modules won't be allowed by KSP (unless some fix can be done by squad), some of the newer ones are possible.

That would be neat, not sure if it could be done currently.

My idea was to extract all the necessary information (meshes, colliders, modules, resources, etc) from welded parts and then save it as a mesh-less part which has one single partmodule containing all the relevant information. With direct access to everything you could even have multiple animations with the same name and control them individually. Docking ports would still be a problem but I think it might be possible to create a multi-dockable part as currently attachment nodes are redefined as docking nodes. I need to do some testing...

Not sure if this is a bug or not, but upon saving a part that was welded together, the plugin seems to recompile all the part.cfg's of every part in the game. This causes huge framerate lag (2-3 fps) and (on my heavily modded game teetering on the 32bit RAM limit) a crash ().

If you are using B9, there is some texture optimization mod floating around on the forums for that particular mod which reduces the RAM usage by about 800-1000MB.

By the way, I noticed that some modders are (planning to) weld their parts from various sub-parts in order to reduce model and texture usage. Something to keep an eye on.

Edited November 3, 2013 by xtremeqg

[mrluckypants96]

If you are using B9, there is some texture optimization mod floating around on the forums for that particular mod which reduces the RAM usage by about 800-1000MB.

yeah, I use that, and the one for KW, and the one for NP, and the one for KOSMOS, and the one for Stock, at 1/8 scale textures... Did I mention I use a lot of mods?

[KerbMav]

When I build a loop - a ring out of girders or adapters and couplers joining back together - does this tool weld all connection/touching points of the used parts - or only the attached nodes? Meaning could e.g. a girder ring torque and veer at some point?

[Ringkeeper]

found something strange, but dont know if it because of welding or a problem with the database reload.

I welded something together, database got reloaded (have auto-reload) and then i didnt had a single part anymore avaible. Everything was deleted from the techtree and i had to rebuy everything. Not with science points but with "credits" , so clicking on every single part in the techtree.

Since then i have a copy of the whole techtree part from the persistant file

[warmadmax]

Is there anyway to delete a welded part through the mod?

i.e. i weld two tanks together then realise i want two tanks and rcs....

so delete the part and reload the parts list?

would have to be careful not to delete welded parts from craft inflight of course though!

[UbioZur]

When I build a loop - a ring out of girders or adapters and couplers joining back together - does this tool weld all connection/touching points of the used parts - or only the attached nodes? Meaning could e.g. a girder ring torque and veer at some point?

It weld only the connection the game accept (so like a 1 parent tree), but still make it stronger, it shouldn't get separated if you do it well.

found something strange, but dont know if it because of welding or a problem with the database reload.

I welded something together, database got reloaded (have auto-reload) and then i didnt had a single part anymore avaible. Everything was deleted from the techtree and i had to rebuy everything. Not with science points but with "credits" , so clicking on every single part in the techtree.

Since then i have a copy of the whole techtree part from the persistant file

Humm ok, I'll have a look at that, maybe try to disable the auto reload of the database.

Is there anyway to delete a welded part through the mod?

i.e. i weld two tanks together then realise i want two tanks and rcs....

so delete the part and reload the parts list?

would have to be careful not to delete welded parts from craft inflight of course though!

At the moment there isn't. I plan to have a way to allow it may be, as well as overwriting the welded part config file.

[Schitzree]

Ran into a few things while welding a bunch of solar panels to an airship body for my exploration airship.

Needless to say, even with my own custom double and quadruple size solar panels I was getting some lag. So I figure this is what UbioWeld is perfect for.

First thing was after welding it seems to have lost the airships model. Not it's effects, just the model. not a big problem as I just went into the part cfg file and edited out the airships module and subtracted it's mass, ect.

Next was that instead of adding all the power ratings together it just got the rating for one of the panels. Also fixed by editing the part cfg. (not sure how it's deciding sun angle on a curved area, so set it at 3/4th the total. If I find it's too far off I'll break them into 3 or 4 sections instead.)

And finally it for some reason placed the center of mass for the array at the very front instead of in the middle. I've seen others mention CoM problems and that it might be Unity related. Hopefully someone knows how to modify CoM because this really throws off my airships balance (not that I can't just shift around the load some, had to do it enough already )

So, all in all, a very handy Mod. Looking forward to seeing it progress.

(ps had to go into config and change <int name="EditorButtonY">50</int> to 100, as it always put the button behind the sub assembly manager button)

[UbioZur]

Ran into a few things while welding a bunch of solar panels to an airship body for my exploration airship.

First thing was after welding it seems to have lost the airships model. Not it's effects, just the model. not a big problem as I just went into the part cfg file and edited out the airships module and subtracted it's mass, ect.

IF it's not stock, it can come from several flaw error on my code, I have fixed some of them, it is coming on the next update.

Next was that instead of adding all the power ratings together it just got the rating for one of the panels. Also fixed by editing the part cfg. (not sure how it's deciding sun angle on a curved area, so set it at 3/4th the total. If I find it's too far off I'll break them into 3 or 4 sections instead.)

I haven't yet fully worked on the solar panel because of all the testing for the sun tracing, you should be able to add the chargerate of the MODULE.

And finally it for some reason placed the center of mass for the array at the very front instead of in the middle. I've seen others mention CoM problems and that it might be Unity related. Hopefully someone knows how to modify CoM because this really throws off my airships balance (not that I can't just shift around the load some, had to do it enough already )

Is the CoM at the same place than the non welded version? or really off? I have fixed a few issue with it already.

So, all in all, a very handy Mod. Looking forward to seeing it progress.

Thanks

(ps had to go into config and change <int name="EditorButtonY">50</int> to 100, as it always put the button behind the sub assembly manager button)

That's why it's there for

[Motorhead Tim]

I have run into this bug twice in the past two days. my only installed mods are engineer redux and this welder mod. After welding a part, going into science tree and researching it, back into VAB, and attaching it to something, My 'Load' button doesn't work, i can click it but it doesn't show the list of my saved ships. And i am unable to 'launch' or 'exit'. I can click 'new' and then the 'exit' button works, but my 'load' button still doesnt work. Now to fix this issue i found that i need to build something random, launch it, and revert to VAB. now everything works like normal. I would say this isn't a very big issue as it is easily fixed, but you should let people know how to work their way around the bug (launch, and revert to VAB). The first time it happened to me, i didn't know how about the launch-and-revert fix and lost everything by starting with a fresh copy of KSP... This mod has doubled my FPS!! i love it. cant wait until its completely bug free. Good Work!

[little square dot]

(not sure how it's deciding sun angle on a curved area, so set it at 3/4th the total. If I find it's too far off I'll break them into 3 or 4 sections instead.)

That's very un-kerbal of you. If you're unsure of the angles don't reduce output; add more panels! Omni-direct that shizz. =)

[xtremeqg]

I noticed several people trying to weld solar panels in order to reduce lag and I wanted to give a little heads up. Welding parts reduces part count which in turn reduces the number of objects that physics are being applied to. KSP is very (single-core) CPU limited and by reducing the number of physic calculations you effectively make the game run faster (ie. less lag).

Solar panels are special as they not only perform physics calculations, they also constantly calculate how much sunlight they receive. From my understanding this is done via ray/shadow casting and involves all colliders on the vessel. Welding parts does not reduce the number of colliders so sunlight calculations remain the same and welding dozens of solar panels will not increase performance.

In order to increase performance in relation to solar panels you should use as few as possible and stay away from non-deployable solar panels (OX-STAT I am looking at you). I've built a rather massive craft before with 8 probes attached having 4 of those on each probe and my FPS dropped to 2. As soon as I deleted the solar panels from my persistence file, my FPS went up to 40 as it was no longer calculating the amount of sunlight received every frame.

[UbioZur]

I have run into this bug twice in the past two days. my only installed mods are engineer redux and this welder mod. After welding a part, going into science tree and researching it, back into VAB, and attaching it to something, My 'Load' button doesn't work, i can click it but it doesn't show the list of my saved ships. And i am unable to 'launch' or 'exit'. I can click 'new' and then the 'exit' button works, but my 'load' button still doesnt work. Now to fix this issue i found that i need to build something random, launch it, and revert to VAB. now everything works like normal. I would say this isn't a very big issue as it is easily fixed, but you should let people know how to work their way around the bug (launch, and revert to VAB). The first time it happened to me, i didn't know how about the launch-and-revert fix and lost everything by starting with a fresh copy of KSP... This mod has doubled my FPS!! i love it. cant wait until its completely bug free. Good Work!

Can you pm me your log next time you have that bug please?

I will look into it.

I noticed several people trying to weld solar panels in order to reduce lag and I wanted to give a little heads up. Welding parts reduces part count which in turn reduces the number of objects that physics are being applied to. KSP is very (single-core) CPU limited and by reducing the number of physic calculations you effectively make the game run faster (ie. less lag).

Solar panels are special as they not only perform physics calculations, they also constantly calculate how much sunlight they receive. From my understanding this is done via ray/shadow casting and involves all colliders on the vessel. Welding parts does not reduce the number of colliders so sunlight calculations remain the same and welding dozens of solar panels will not increase performance.

In order to increase performance in relation to solar panels you should use as few as possible and stay away from non-deployable solar panels (OX-STAT I am looking at you). I've built a rather massive craft before with 8 probes attached having 4 of those on each probe and my FPS dropped to 2. As soon as I deleted the solar panels from my persistence file, my FPS went up to 40 as it was no longer calculating the amount of sunlight received every frame.

Good to know, thanks for the information

[Schitzree]

That's very un-kerbal of you. If you're unsure of the angles don't reduce output; add more panels! Omni-direct that shizz. =)

I meant, as the array of panels covers the top half of the airship, I wasn't sure if the welded Array was being treated as a single flat panel or a dome that would block parts of itself from the light. By breaking them into left, right and top groups they would more naturally be treated as flatter sections that could have different sun angles.

I noticed several people trying to weld solar panels in order to reduce lag and I wanted to give a little heads up. Welding parts reduces part count which in turn reduces the number of objects that physics are being applied to. KSP is very (single-core) CPU limited and by reducing the number of physic calculations you effectively make the game run faster (ie. less lag).

Solar panels are special as they not only perform physics calculations, they also constantly calculate how much sunlight they receive. From my understanding this is done via ray/shadow casting and involves all colliders on the vessel. Welding parts does not reduce the number of colliders so sunlight calculations remain the same and welding dozens of solar panels will not increase performance.

Ah, I didn't conceder that, thank you. And you were right, While welding them did decrees lag somewhat from fewer physics calcs, the improvement wasn't nearly what I had expected. On the other hand, now I am wondering if it WOULD be able to handle the domed shape for the sunlight calcs? So many experiments to run.

In any case, after testing in flight I have come to realize that the array actually produce more energy then I could use even in the most adverse sun angles, and have redesigned the airship with less then half the panels.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Schitzree

[greg12]

Mod support request:

-Kethane

-Extraplanetary Launchpads

please

[Lennigosu]

Do welded air intakes work with mechjeb's intake managing?

[qnistNAMEERF]

I just stumbled onto this new in game version of this mod. I'm glad someone was able to come up with this because I'm a welding addict. I will give this mod a try. Thank you!

[Zephram Kerman]

Hi, me again.

I still can't attach my welded parts to other parts. Only the center of my welded parts want to attach. Are there plans to get it working in the future?

Here's an example what i want to do:

I get this same thing with every part I weld. Part clip does not work. I have a noes cone with a few things on top of it. The nose cone will not attach to the fuel probe.

~edit~

If you select the part you welded first THEN choose your probe to control it that works. You have to choose the welded part first.

And now all of my parts just fall off of my welded area on my rocket. RCS thrusters, solar panels, the engines... the launching stabalizers don't even attach onto the welded part anymore. It seems like the larger the welded object the less stuff wants to stick.

Undoubtedly a Kerbal/Unity bug related to the distance from the CoM or some such. With larger parts from addon packs such as B9 I noticed similar instabilities with part connections.

I have looked at the bug when radially attaching parts, and not been able to attached the welded part to other parts. I kind of know why it is like that, but I can't figure a way to fix it in the code (I can manualy fix in the config file).

[snip]

Hopefully I will release something soon, I want to have a bit more feature to it before I do that.

I am having the same attachment problem as Space Scumbag and Lexar. When trying to attach the welded assembly to anything else, the nodes snap but do not actually attach. Even worse, Lexar's fix about choosing the welded part first didn't work for me. Perhaps I'm missing something? I can only attach welded assemblies at their center, and then only radially, so it always looks very weird. I can only get the attach nodes to work on very small assemblies; but then, what's the point of that? I want MOAR bigger stuffs!

Edited November 13, 2013 by Zephram Kerman

[Zander]

The welded part will not attach for me. The nodes snap together. but the part remains red. Have tried it with several different parts. never worked.

[Zephram Kerman]

The welded part will not attach for me. The nodes snap together. but the part remains red. Have tried it with several different parts. never worked.

Yes, that's it exactly. Zander, you said it much more concisely than I did.

I got one part to work, so now I'm even more confused. Does it make a difference if the welded part has a command pod or not? The one that worked was a complete vessel including a mk1-1 capsule, but welded part remains red if I made it from a sub-assembly without the capsule. Sorry if that's confusing again.

The impression I'm getting is everyone else figured out a work-around, to which I'm still oblivious...

[Roxette]

Assembling even non-welded parts is often a very hit-and-miss affair. Often parts don't want to connect, sometimes the fix is as easy as pushing the parts through each other until things turn green then slowly backing out to the desired spot, or in some cases rotating the part to find an angle where it will work (I'm looking at you, rockomax hubmax). I'm not sure whether it's inherent Unity bugginess or KSP specific, but while it's an annoyance at times it's something I guess we have to suffer for now. I've learned to be choosy about what parts I weld and especially which part to start with, although there is a mod http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43208-0-22-Oct17-SelectRoot-Set-a-new-root-part-0-22-fixes which can (usually) change the root part to help things.