Career Mode and Mods

[SleepyWacKo]

I love mods, I used kethane a lot.

What do you mean by "structured"? A list of challenges with some mission briefing text and maybe a picture? You could do that yourself. Maybe instead of career mode we develop mission focused website and just do it this way. Won't take away much of devs time.

you take one example i gave and pulled it out of context, a structure set of goals in of itself may be lacking but put that along with having a budget career mode may force you to keep to, and or training of kerbals to take on said goal, or the possibility of getting fired if you failed etc. there are many possibilities to answer your questions, one possibility in of itself may be lacking but put them together you have a case. The fact you strip and focus on one possibility shows how close minded you are to the subject, as the guy who bowed out. I am going to follow his lead as this discussion is pointless as you are one of those people that only believes your view is the correct one rather than looking at the bigger more comprimising view. Good luck to you sir, happy kerbaling

[Ski]

you take one example i gave and pulled it out of context, a structure set of goals in of itself may be lacking but put that along with having a budget career mode may force you to keep to, and or training of kerbals to take on said goal, or the possibility of getting fired if you failed etc. there are many possibilities to answer your questions, one possibility in of itself may be lacking but put them together you have a case. The fact you strip and focus on one possibility shows how close minded you are to the subject, as the guy who bowed out. I am going to follow his lead as this discussion is pointless as you are one of those people that only believes your view is the correct one rather than looking at the bigger more comprimising view. Good luck to you sir, happy kerbaling

My point:

if there is a structured career with some mechanism bonding it somehow together i.e. money, experience etc. wont some mods be able screw it up by pure accident? So we will have to have actually a mod tracking system in place anyway?

[Uncle Mort]

To me it's simple:

In career mode I'll play the game as it's presented ~ pure vanilla.

In sandbox I'll do exactly what I please ~ mod it to death.

But, the current vanilla version isn't enough to keep me interested; without infoscreens, a better range of parts, resources, even autopilot, i.e. things that currently mods provide, then I doubt I'll play career.

[SleepyWacKo]

My point:

if there is a structured career with some mechanism bonding it somehow together i.e. money, experience etc. wont some mods be able screw it up by pure accident? So we will have to have actually a mod tracking system in place anyway?

i'll will reply to this as you are actually looking at another point of view all be it with a bit of your view thrown in.

Mods will only screw it up if you actually install one that does so, you yourself has the ability to choose which mod to install or not to install. Some may choose mods that does screw it up and make it easier and the whole career mode becomes pointless but others may not, others may choose to install mods that make it harder for example, make career mode have a tighter budget, or current mods that make reentry into kerbin atmostphere more dynamic and dangerous etc, or mod the whole career mode itself to be more realistic in it's approach, (Realize the devs vision of this may be a bit arcadish rather than challenging, mods could fix that). i don't see i need for a mod tracking system as i don't see why i need to see how another player choses to play his single player game!

You only seem to look at mods as a way to cheat a game when in reality that is only one view of why people use mods, there others with entirely different view of mods to make it harder and more realistic. This is where the close minded vibe is eminating from yours and others posts!

Edited July 11, 2013 by SleepyWacKo

[Ski]

i'll will reply to this as you are actually looking at another point of view all be it with a bit of your view thrown in.

Mods will only screw it up if you actually install one that does so, you yourself has the ability to choose which mod to install or not to install. Some may choose mods that does screw it up and make it easier and the whole career mode becomes pointless but others may not, others may choose to install mods that make it harder for example, make career mode have a tighter budget, or current mods that make reentry into kerbin atmostphere more dynamic and dangerous etc, or mod the whole career mode itself to be more realistic in it's approach, (Realize the devs vision of this may be a bit arcadish rather than challenging, mods could fix that). i don't see i need for a mod tracking system as i don't see why i need to see how another player choses to play his single player game!

You only seem to look at mods as a way to cheat a game when in reality that is only one view of why people use mods, there others with entirely different view of mods to make it harder and more realistic. This is where the close minded vibe is eminating from yours and others posts!

I definitely don't see mods as cheating. They are great tools. Now modding the whole career is something that would get my attention. I know from my experience when in previous builds i just installed crapload of all kind of mods, I simply lost track. So if I have some of them and they change some small percentage of my stats that I won't see until very end of career then I would feel stupid as hell. I wanted some system that help me manage mods I want to use any given moment and keep KSP stable. I though Career mode no mods would do it for me by stripping everything from vanilla so I don't have to mess with it.

[SleepyWacKo]

I wanted some system that help me manage mods I want to use any given moment and keep KSP stable. I though Career mode no mods would do it for me by stripping everything from vanilla so I don't have to mess with it.

well even if the devs do allow career mode modding and or do not implement 2 seperate career modes for mods and with mods you can still do what you say. You can have two copies of KSP installed on your computer and keep one that you mod to your liking and the other for stock use on career mode etc.

In the end it is really too early to tell what the devs plans are for career mode, 0.21 is only going to have some backend stuff added. I'm sure there will be some blogs about it in the future and they will let us know their thoughts on the matter and this whole discussion will just happen once again

[Ski]

You can have two copies of KSP installed on your computer and keep one that you mod to your liking and the other for stock use on career mode etc.

Now that I have not tried yet. A man learns something every day.

Does it screw anything up if I rename .exe to second version or something?

[SleepyWacKo]

Does it screw anything up if I rename .exe to second version or something?

don't rename the exe file, just create shortcut of the exe and rename the shortcut!

[Rockhem]

Why do people force things on each other? I don't see why you can't just trust people of what they say. Mods will always be a part of KSP, the mod devs will just find a way through any mod detection scripts easily.

Why is it that you have to restrict EVERYBODY because you want to have a massive ego that just shows how arrogant you are, you have to feel all high and mighty.

What if someone wanted to install hyperedit? Would that affect your game play in anyway.

Would that affect your gameplay in anyway, don't beat around the bush, answer me. Just answer me honestly.

Would that?

[SleepyWacKo]

poor rockhem, late to the party, must have not read the last few posts and or just trying to stroke the flames here so the bickering happens again. LOL

[Rockhem]

poor rockhem, late to the party, must have not read the last few posts and or just trying to stroke the flames here so the bickering happens again. LOL

If this thread isn't locked, this is still open for discussion.

AAAAAnd you beat around the bush again. expected.....

[SleepyWacKo]

AAAAAnd you beat around the bush again.

how is that? if read anything here i'm the one that agrees with you

[Ski]

If this thread isn't locked, this is still open for discussion.

AAAAAnd you beat around the bush again. expected.....

Too much caffeine ?

[Rockhem]

how is that? if read anything here i'm the one that agrees with you

im not good with names lol

[SleepyWacKo]

Too much caffeine ?

now we can also have close minded people on the other point of view too *lol*

[Rockhem]

This is going off-topic

[Ski]

This is going off-topic

I like beer.

[Tarmenius]

No, the open door for mods is already there.

Yeah, I know SQUAD isn't spending much (if any) time on accommodating mods. I was commenting more on the nature of the argument as a whole, not merely as it applies to KSP. This "purist vs modder" conflict far predates this particular iteration.

-

Another point on the subject is that none of us are an island unto ourselves, isolated from the rest of the world. The actions of those around us have an effect on us, and ours have effects on others, in ways both subtle and obvious. So when someone says "How I play my game doesn't effect you at all," they aren't completely correct, especially in such a community-oriented game as this is. We should all be a little more mindful of the impact we have and at least try to consider that despite our best efforts, other people will be influenced by our actions, in ways we cannot predict.

This debate will never be solved as long as games exist, and as long as communities of gamers exist. The best thing we can do is have faith in the developers of whatever game we love and support them in making the best experience possible for anyone who wishes to come along for the ride.

[Akinesis]

I love this thread. It's the first KSP thread I've come across that reminds me of Eve Online. You know, the PvPer's vs HS Carebear type ones.

One of the mods I use is KW Rocketry. I use the tanks and rocket motors a lot. But I won't be hugely disappointed if I can't use them in career mode, although I would prefer the option. After all, they are priced, etc, so budgeting options are there. What I would miss if they did go are the fairings used to house vehicles like satallites. When I first started playing KSP I wasn't even aware of mods, so I used vanilla for a short while. I didn't like launching a probe by just perching it on top of the rocket. I like it more true to life, which KWR provides. Maybe we'll get some fairings like that in 0.21, who knows.

My thoughts align with the people saying 'if Squad turned off mods in career mode, someone would find a way to turn them back on anyway.' So I don't think they will even bother trying. And, tbh, why would they? As mentioned by others, a lot of mods enhance and/or turn up the difficulty on gameplay. And as Squad embraced modders and love what a lot of people have done, why would they push that away? I wouldn't be surprised if they allowed career mode editing anyway! Kethane missions on a budget anyone?

Love it either way.

[bsalis]

I hope theres a mod specifically for Career, that is integrated with the forum.

Such that I can channel the hot air for forum threads like this into a propulsion system. Should get to to Jool and to the land of Win in no time!

Heck, might try making a start on it myself...

MODULE
{
	name = WinAtCareerFuelGenerator
	isAlwaysActive = true
	INPUT_RESOURCE
	{
	   name = ForumHotAir
	   rate = 0.25
	}
	OUTPUT_RESOURCE
	{
	   name = AwesomenessFuel
	   rate = 1.00
	}
}

[EmissionGeneration]

So you don't care but you do care? The answer isn't so obvious.

Yawn.

Oh look, a Squirrel!!!

[Arran]

i expec something like what happends with the X3 series and Mods..

You can mod the hell out of that series as wel, but as soon you add mods too the game, you game is flagged modified, and you cant obtain any archievements anymore.

Still the whole game is functional, but you ÿou're out of any compettative stat tracking. and Scoreboards.

[KWilkiePJ]

It always surprises me the strength of feeling around whether to allow mods or not. The appeal is that it opens the game up for all different types of people to customise the experience of the game to suit them, and given that its not multiplayer, what difference does that make really? It keeps the game alive and encourages creativity. Some of the mods I have seen actually add aspects that increase the difficulty of the game or make it more realistic, and if you don't like any of these things, then you don't have to have them. This makes the game appeal to a much wider audience which can be only good for future developments that we can all enjoy

[magnemoe]

i expec something like what happends with the X3 series and Mods..

You can mod the hell out of that series as wel, but as soon you add mods too the game, you game is flagged modified, and you cant obtain any archievements anymore.

Still the whole game is functional, but you ÿou're out of any compettative stat tracking. and Scoreboards.

KSP don't have achievements, Skyrim has steam achievements and come with an editor making it trivial to make overpowered items.

[Fox967]

Of course Mods should be allowed, and i see no reason why SQUAD will disallow them in career mode. They've said repeatedly that they're aiming to be mod friendly throughout the game's life.

I play a game for entertainment. If a mod will provide me with more entertainment, fine, i'll use it. If someone feels they need achievements, or to gloat about something in a game.... well... i feel sorry for you, but... its a game.

A single player game at that.

Just because YOU want it all stock, just because YOU don't like mods, doesn't mean that the entertainment should be taken away from me just because you're taking a game too seriously.

Sure, feel proud that you did something in a game that you were aiming to do, but remember its a game. A game to entertain people - not to give you bragging rights.

Don't want to use mods so you can gloat about it? Fine. Just let me play how i want to play, k?