Career Mode and Mods

[DChurchill]

There really isn't a point. It's a single player game. All I want is for the devs to not appeal to the Casual Gamers and make KSP even more easy than it already is. I started playing KSP because of it's complexity and near infinite possibilities. I want KSP to retain the difficulty. Mods can cancel that difficulty. And hear you ask "Well some mods make it harder, why don't you want those?" I'll respond to this by saying that even though I want career mode to be difficult, I don't want to overwhelm a new player with extra difficulty mods they may install.

Play your own game and stop playing mine. That's the whole point. Play it blindfolded for all I care. You won't get any more difficult than that. Worrying about "new players getting overwhelmed by mods" is utter BS. It's you deciding what someone else's experience should be, again. We were all new players once. I didn't use a single mod for quite some time. I can make up my own mind, I don't need you telling me what I'm "allowed" to do.

You said before that ego wasn't the reason you wanted to keep career mode difficult. Then what is it? I can't for the life of me think of any valid reason, so enlighten me.

Edited July 12, 2013 by DChurchill

[OtherDalfite]

Play your own game and stop playing mine. That's the whole point. Play it blindfolded for all I care. You won't get any more difficult than that. Worrying about "new players getting overwhelmed by mods" is utter BS. It's you deciding what someone else's experience should be. We were all new players once. I didn't use a single mod for quite some time.

You said before that ego wasn't the reason you wanted to keep career mode difficult. Then what is it? I can't for the life of me think of any valid reason, so enlighten me.

Because when I first joined KSP. It was a learning experience more than a game. There wasn't all these crazy mods that allow you to pinpoint your landings or build huge mechanized ships. The game was getting to orbit, landing on the Mun, and trying to get back alive. I just want it to stay that way.

[SleepyWacKo]

You said before that ego wasn't the reason you wanted to keep career mode difficult. Then what is it? I can't for the life of me think of any valid reason, so enlighten me.

in theory he enlightened you with his utter bs!

[OtherDalfite]

in theory he enlightened you with his utter bs!

Cool, mudslinging. I'm glad to see the KSP forums haven't turned into a Minecraft forum clone. The grammar, post content, and maturity are about the same.

[DChurchill]

Because when I first joined KSP. It was a learning experience more than a game. There wasn't all these crazy mods that allow you to pinpoint your landings or build huge mechanized ships. The game was getting to orbit, landing on the Mun, and trying to get back alive. I just want it to stay that way.

Dude, then don't use mods. It's that simple. But dear god stop telling everyone else that they need to do the same.

[42undead2]

If mods aren't allowed in career mode, I will NOT play it. Most of my fun comes from mods. Most of your fun may come from stock. So why limit the modding people, when stock people can just NOT INSTALL MODS?

Edited July 12, 2013 by 42undead2

[OtherDalfite]

Dude, then don't use mods. It's that simple. But dear god stop telling everyone else that they need to do the same.

I don't use mods. I haven't for a long time, save Kethane. And also, if you are so irritated with my simple suggestions, why do you continue to read them? Seriously, do you just like torturing yourself?

[SleepyWacKo]

I don't use mods. I haven't for a long time, save Kethane. And also, if you are so irritated with my simple suggestions, why do you continue to read them? Seriously, do you just like torturing yourself?

This possibly isn't the place for suggestions, this thread and sub forum is for discussions. Actual suggestions are supposed to go here KSP Development forum

[OtherDalfite]

This isn't the place for suggestions, this thread and sub forum is for discussions. Actual suggestions are supposed to go here KSP Development forum

This thread discusses how mods and career mode will interact. I gave a possible suggestion as to how it may be done. Maybe this thread should be moved?

[SleepyWacKo]

This thread discusses how mods and career mode will interact. I gave a possible suggestion as to how it may be done. Maybe this thread should be moved?

*lol* honestly i don't know, i was just being a smart ass! (got a bit of a buzz going now)

suggestions/discussions same thing as far as i'm concerned

[OtherDalfite]

*lol* honestly i don't know, i was just being a smart ass!

suggestions/discussions same thing as far as i'm concerned

If you're just going to try and be witty towards me, why post?

[SleepyWacKo]

boredom? not getting anywhere else with getting the point across of why your suggestions doesn't make sense when you put 2 and 2 together. Maybe i find it fun? Maybe that is my "suggestion" of how this convo should work, if witty comments weren't made it would be too easy and we wouldn't want it that way, figuring one's post out should be hard!

or i'm just trying to simply prove a point in some weird illogical way that only makes sense to myself?! sometimes the best offence is to change tactics

Edited July 12, 2013 by SleepyWacKo

[DChurchill]

I don't use mods. I haven't for a long time, save Kethane. And also, if you are so irritated with my simple suggestions, why do you continue to read them? Seriously, do you just like torturing yourself?

Next time I'm conflicted on what I should feel, I'll ask. Because it's like talking to a brick wall, this will be my last post to you on it. Your "simple suggestion" is going to impinge on my, among others, fun and you have given no valid reason why your suggestion should be allowed to impinge on my fun. "Because that's the way I think it should be" is not a valid reason to impose your will on everyone else. You can give your opinion on the matter so Squad can take it under consideration, but something other than "because" might carry more weight.

[OtherDalfite]

Next time I'm conflicted on what I should feel, I'll ask. Because it's like talking to a brick wall, this will be my last post to you on it. Your "simple suggestion" is going to impinge on my, among others, fun and you have given no valid reason why your suggestion should be allowed to impinge on my fun. "Because that's the way I think it should be" is not a valid reason to impose your will on everyone else. You can give your opinion on the matter so Squad can take it under consideration, but something other than "because" might carry more weight.

That's exactly what I intended on doing, giving a suggestion. But then about 3-4 people including you decided to dog me on it. This is why we can't have discussions relating to restricting certain mods. Even after you stopped blatantly attacking me you were still making all your posts passive-agressive and not even bothering to take things in from another view.

[DJEN]

Stupid thread devolving into flame war, eh?

Well, a mod had better lock this thread.

[OtherDalfite]

Stupid thread devolving into flame war, eh?

Well, a mod had better lock this thread.

Agreed. It's a shame this thread had to go up in flames.

[SleepyWacKo]

Stupid thread devolving into flame war, eh?

Well, a mod had better lock this thread.

really hasn't been flaming going on, but rather a discussion using non conventional tactics, but now we are getting off topic!

[DJEN]

This thread discusses how mods and career mode will interact. I gave a possible suggestion as to how it may be done. Maybe this thread should be moved?

This thread would look great if it was in the development forums with the [Discussion] tag.

[EmissionGeneration]

When I was first searching for anything to do with this Topic, 90% of the Career Mode Topics came up in General Chat, and honestly didn't think it would be such a hot topic as I thought it would have been talked about before.

The people who are against Mods in Career Mode say it will be used for cheating, but honestly, you can edit any Stock Part in the Game to make it a cheat part, and if someone was going to cheat, why would they even play Career Mode? They'd just play Sandbox and screw around in the way they see fit. Not one person who is with having Mods have stated they want it for cheating, but to make it more difficult as Squad are most likely going to base Career Mode around the Casual Gamer, not Hardcore, and Mods will provide the opportunity for the people who want Hardcore Mode.

As I said earlier, sure Squad will put extra things in the game to make it more realistic and challenging, such as Resources, Kerbal Stats that effect how they act in flight ect ect, but as Games develop, so do Mods. The Core Game will never reach the point that Mods can provide for a game like KSP.

For the people who want Stock Parts only, are honestly being selfish as they want to know other people don't have the ability to "cheat" their way in a SINGLE PLAYER Game. KSP does not have Achievements, and it never will, the Dev's have made that very clear, so what does it matter? The community shares their experience and achievements through these Forums and other Boards of Communication, but you don't see people on there screaming that they probably used Mods to "cheat" their way to that Goal. Who cares. There are already Challenge Threads on these Forums for Stock Only Missions, so why couldn't Career Mode Stock Challengers be added there aswell?

For the people who want Mods, I am one of them, and I don't see Squad turning around and saying "No Mods!" when they Support them, and they know that mods bring alot to the Game. I can understand that Squad want their hard work to be noticed, and it will be, most of us are excited about running our own Space Program that has Rewards and Consequences, but we also want the ability to increase that Challenge, such as RemoteTech, Deadly Re-Entry [another thing Squad will implement], MechJeb [not for Autopilot, but for information screens to move away from using Nodes and Map View], KAS to add extra designs that will in no way help you CHEAT, and the list goes on.

[jwenting]

He's entitled to his opinion. Give him a break.

I'm sick of others trying to dictate how I run this game, if he doesn't want mods he's free to not use them, but he goes way beyond that into demanding I can't use them either.

[Feldynn]

Perhaps the easiest solution would be to have an option popup when starting a new Career Mode game that lets us select "Mods" or "No Mods" as a sub-game mode type, if you choose "mods" then it loads all your mods and if they're built correctly it integrates them into the progression structure accordingly (e.g. rocket part mods could be linked to certain levels of career progression so they become available when similar vanilla parts do), obviously if you choose "No Mods" then any mods would be disabled / hidden for that saved game instance.

Given the choice I personally would choose "Career Mode: No Mods", at least for the first play through because I like plain old vanilla sometimes. Others like vanilla with sprinkles or fudge swirls and that's cool too, heck sometimes I like vanilla with fudge swirls and crunchy peanut bits in it but I digress (and now I'm getting the munchies!). I guess the point is having the ability to choose is a good thing.

[Akinesis]

Perhaps the easiest solution would be to have an option popup when starting a new Career Mode game that lets us select "Mods" or "No Mods" as a sub-game mode type, if you choose "mods" then it loads all your mods and if they're built correctly it integrates them into the progression structure accordingly (e.g. rocket part mods could be linked to certain levels of career progression so they become available when similar vanilla parts do), obviously if you choose "No Mods" then any mods would be disabled / hidden for that saved game instance.

That's a nice idea. Some people may like to run two career modes - one with and one without mods. This provides a good solution over having two separate KSP folders, like I do at the moment. Of course, I have no idea how easy or difficult this would be to code (a plug-in that only allows the game to recognise the 'Squad' folder???), but would solve the all problems presented in this thread... I think

[42undead2]

Perhaps the easiest solution would be to have an option popup when starting a new Career Mode game that lets us select "Mods" or "No Mods" as a sub-game mode type, if you choose "mods" then it loads all your mods and if they're built correctly it integrates them into the progression structure accordingly (e.g. rocket part mods could be linked to certain levels of career progression so they become available when similar vanilla parts do), obviously if you choose "No Mods" then any mods would be disabled / hidden for that saved game instance.

Given the choice I personally would choose "Career Mode: No Mods", at least for the first play through because I like plain old vanilla sometimes. Others like vanilla with sprinkles or fudge swirls and that's cool too, heck sometimes I like vanilla with fudge swirls and crunchy peanut bits in it but I digress (and now I'm getting the munchies!). I guess the point is having the ability to choose is a good thing.

But how would you tell the difference? I'm only thinking that people want this to make sure no one else cheats, but if both modes look the same, how are we going to tell the difference on pictures? Trust me, if career mode supports mods, there will still be people who doesn't use mods that you can compare to.

[Rockhem]

How will the modded career mode tell if something is a rocket part?

[SleepyWacKo]

This discussion will never go anywhere, the same crap that has been already answered or the answers never passed the poop test just keeps getting rehashed over and over again. I'm done with it personally as the one with the final say how everything is going to work in career mode is SQUAD themselves, and going by their track record thus far they will not limit mods in career mode as there is no reason to when you can limit the use of them yourself by simply not using one!