Kerbin Mini Shuttle

[helldiver]

-Separate the Glass on the MFD's no problem.

-HDG will become NAV, and NAV will become ENG. Although I think what they are requesting is throttle setting information on the ALT screen. Going to rename ALT to ADI to keep things simple.

-More transparency, no problem. That was just a test at like 50% opacity. I think about 10-15% is about right. I don't want to scratch up the screens, rarely is that stuff scratched or dinged as it is a very important instrument.

-No looking into IVA from the external view. The cockpit right now is sitting at 19,000 triangles; although I foresee us gaining back about 1000 since the seats and control column haven't been optimized yet and are still in the "master" state. Even though the buttons use a single UV and are then copied, I'm concerned with performance hits. It would also require at least two more days worth of work to make it fully 100% compatible with the external view.

I'm not burdening the people helping me with making that possible. You'd hardly be able to see into the cockpit anyhow since the windshields are tinted.

From studying the stock shaders available, you can only use transparency if you don't use emissivity. And with transparency you can only have specular OR normal mapping, not both.

Anyway, that does not matter any more, as I have got my plugin that allows you to use custom shaders working:

The panel is now showing through the glass layer. The texture for the panel has not been set, but at least I have an opacity map, normal map, emissivity map, diffuse map and specular map in one shader in one pass.

That's exactly how I wanted it to look in game. Good job!

The engine for my game also does the same nonsense; Normal, or Specular but not both. You really can't have a normal work too well without specular highlights. You use the specular to help define the detail that the normal is pushing.

For this project the normal map is really being used for improved lighting information, not really using it for details (although the seats will take advantage of the normal maps a lot more). KSP uses very simple and clean lines, so having too much detail and floaters on the normal can break that.

Edited August 9, 2013 by helldiver

[ZRM]

-Separate the Glass on the MFD's no problem.

-HDG will become NAV, and NAV will become ENG. Although I think what they are requesting is throttle setting information on the ALT screen. Going to rename ALT to ADI to keep things simple.

-More transparency, no problem. That was just a test at like 50% opacity. I think about 10-15% is about right. I don't want to scratch up the screens, rarely is that stuff scratched or dinged as it is a very important instrument.

-No looking into IVA from the external view. The cockpit right now is sitting at 19,000 triangles; although I foresee us gaining back about 1000 since the seats and control column haven't been optimized yet and are still in the "master" state. Even though the buttons use a single UV and are then copied, I'm concerned with performance hits. It would also require at least two more days worth of work to make it fully 100% compatible with the external view.

I'm not burdening the people helping me with making that possible. You'd hardly be able to see into the cockpit anyhow since the windshields are tinted.

If you split off parts that are identical to other parts (e.g. buttons) into separate components that reference one master version, Unity might (I have not looked at its feature-set) use instancing. This should make the cost of drawing them cheaper. You would have a lower effective poly-count. For example, the stock cockpits use several reusable "props" for things like buttons and switches.

[ZRM]

Here's a mockup PFD I am working on:

It still needs numbers put on some of the scales, but they are not important since the actual asset for the numbers used in game would not be taken from the mockup.

Is this sort of the right thing? I can easily move stuff around if you want. There is also lots of room for things like throttles and other indicators.

Edited August 9, 2013 by ZRM

[ZRM]

That's exactly how I wanted it to look in game. Good job!

The engine for my game also does the same nonsense; Normal, or Specular but not both. You really can't have a normal work too well without specular highlights. You use the specular to help define the detail that the normal is pushing.

For this project the normal map is really being used for improved lighting information, not really using it for details (although the seats will take advantage of the normal maps a lot more). KSP uses very simple and clean lines, so having too much detail and floaters on the normal can break that.

Helldiver, have you seen my post since that one that actually has the ADI in game?

[helldiver]

Helldiver, have you seen my post since that one that actually has the ADI in game?

Yes I saw it, great work! Specially getting all shaders to work

Don't know why but I prefer this aircraft symbol over the other one, just seems more precise to me. As well as a much larger ADI gimbal.

Typically the speed and altitude tapes will be centered on the aircraft symbol. The compass is also centered on the aircraft symbol as well.

[ZRM]

Yes I saw it, great work! Specially getting all shaders to work

Don't know why but I prefer this aircraft symbol over the other one, just seems more precise to me. As well as a much larger ADI gimbal.

Typically the speed and altitude tapes will be centered on the aircraft symbol. The compass is also centered on the aircraft symbol as well.

Yeah, I have since done some tweaking to it. For example the ADI is much larger, and to save space so that it can be larger overall the sides of it have been cut off to the edges of the bank indicator scale. I will now also rearrange the compass.

You're right, that other symbol does seem a lot more precise - I just liked the look of the other one for aesthetic reasons. I can make both of them anyway and put a switch in the config file (or in the IVA?) for the user to pick one.

[helldiver]

I can make both of them anyway and put a switch in the config file (or in the IVA?) for the user to pick one.

Nah, just pick one.

Or you can have the angled one come up when you switch to ILS mode, as that makes a bit more sense.

You also want about 5+ black or dark pixels around the whole thing so it doesn't bleed into the surrounding MFD object and it looks like an actual screen.

Edited August 9, 2013 by helldiver

[ZRM]

Right, here's the PFD again. Ignore the aircraft symbol - I will change that.

Regarding the border - most displays I have seen have pixels right up to the screen frame. And besides, I can tweak the border using a shader if necessary.

[helldiver]

Right, here's the PFD again. Ignore the aircraft symbol - I will change that.

Regarding the border - most displays I have seen have pixels right up to the screen frame. And besides, I can tweak the border using a shader if necessary.

Something about it is distracting, I think it's the tapes going too far up and down the screen;

I would make the tapes as long as the height of your ADI gimbal, and the compass as wide as well.

alternatively you could do something like this where the tapes are over the ADI gimbal:

[Odyssey]

I've just finished reading all 31 pages of posts. I'm riveted for this mod. It's the best mini-shuttle I've seen to date and I've been keeping an eye out for those.

I feel bad that I'm just coming to the party. I know better than to try to suggest changes or make requests at this late date.

I was wondering though if the nosecone (which appears to harbor batteries and avionics?) was set in stone or if it would be possible to substitute the nose-cone docking port which is already stock. I'm a fan of nose-first docking for a variety of reasons and I was curious if I had that option with this vehicle.

My other question may be better directed at Firespitter. I'm a big fan of being able to swap in a name on the side as was previously discussed. However, rather than having a collection of them with the part, I'm wondering if it's possible to have a setup where a name (or logo or whatever) could be typed (or pasted) in rather than having it be in a catalog somewhere. For that matter, I know there's a lot of sensitive polygons in that area, it may be something that could be moved to the wing in future versions.

Either way, love the work and I'll keep watching this space.

[helldiver]

I've just finished reading all 31 pages of posts.

We're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. So hopefully we should get this out soon. The big part of the project is soon coming to a close (all the art assets). Next step is getting it all in KSP. The cockpit has just taken me a bit because it just has a lot of detail and such. But it's UVed and the Sub-D is almost done, just got the seats to do.

I was wondering though if the nosecone (which appears to harbor batteries and avionics?) was set in stone

Yup, and that would be no to your other question as it goes completely against the design. As I explained earlier I'm making an orbiter, not a parts pack perse.

My other question may be better directed at Firespitter. I'm a big fan of being able to swap in a name on the side as was previously discussed. However, rather than having a collection of them with the part, I'm wondering if it's possible to have a setup where a name (or logo or whatever) could be typed (or pasted) in rather than having it be in a catalog somewhere. For that matter, I know there's a lot of sensitive polygons in that area, it may be something that could be moved to the wing in future versions.

This is also a no currently. As I explained earlier being able to switch the name of the KSO is something for the future. Everyone is getting the Dauntless test KSO, later on I might be able to work with ZRM if he's willing (and by later I mean way later) we may be able to come up with some shader system for that, possibly using the technologies he developed for the MFD. Essentially the entire orbiter would become an "MFD"...

However doing that right now is out, we're not putting anything else on our plates. I want to finish this project, and want to be flying it ASP. Bogging it down with additional programming, bells, and whistles might cause us to enter "modding hell" or fizzle our enthusiasm (the most common causes of mods dying before they are completed).

Either way, love the work and I'll keep watching this space.

Fantastic!

[shadowsutekh]

Can't wait to try to fly the shuttle using the displays. I'll probably fail horrifically. I hope your shuttle comes with crash insurance...

[ZRM]

alternatively you could do something like this where the tapes are over the ADI gimbal:

Now that sounds like a good idea (though obviously without the 3D background). I was never really happy with all that blank space. This should also transfer over better to the HUD. I will see what I can do. Also, do you prefer the linear VSI or the angular one in that picture?

[ZRM]

This is also a no currently. As I explained earlier being able to switch the name of the KSO is something for the future. Everyone is getting the Dauntless test KSO, later on I might be able to work with ZRM if he's willing (and by later I mean way later) we may be able to come up with some shader system for that, possibly using the technologies he developed for the MFD. Essentially the entire orbiter would become an "MFD"...

I can do better than that. Because the name is not likely to change during the flight, I can bake the name into the in-memory texture at the start of the flight (or whenever the vessel loads). Then the performance would be identical to not having a customisable name. I may even be able to take advantage of the Unity text renderer to do it. If not I would have to come up with a custom text renderer (to deal with things like kerning), and that could take a while. Regardless, this is something to look into after the first release.

[MOARdV]

I can do better than that. Because the name is not likely to change during the flight, I can bake the name into the in-memory texture at the start of the flight (or whenever the vessel loads). Then the performance would be identical to not having a customisable name. I may even be able to take advantage of the Unity text renderer to do it. If not I would have to come up with a custom text renderer (to deal with things like kerning), and that could take a while. Regardless, this is something to look into after the first release.

Just curious - Why not add a Flag Decal quad to the surface, instead? That would allow someone to use names, or flags, or whatever? I haven't seen anyone take advantage of that feature in KSP, outside of a couple of parts.

[ZRM]

Just curious - Why not add a Flag Decal quad to the surface, instead? That would allow someone to use names, or flags, or whatever? I haven't seen anyone take advantage of that feature in KSP, outside of a couple of parts.

The flag decal could be put on the wings and tail, but ideally the name should be a separate thing. But, yes, you've got a good point. I just figured that I could bake it into the texture dynamically and do away with having decal geometry simply because once you know how to do that it's quite easy.

[helldiver]

Just keeping everyone updated.

Keep in mind these shots are just the raw AO bakes, I still have to go in and touch up the AO. It can take up to an hour or more just to bake the AO. Normal maps took less than ten minutes to do (including the projection cage). Just got to cast the seats and I'm moving on to texturing.

The instruments that are completed are lit. During normal gameplay they won't be lit, but you will have a switch on the overhead panel to turn on the cockpit panel back light. I would like to be able to turn on and off the internal cockpit lights so you have better visibility.

Ignore the translucent effect of the MFD. In game, the instrument data plane would be there.

[scourgedude]

This looks amazing! I can't wait to see the finished product.

[OopsThatNotWork]

Just keeping everyone updated.

Keep in mind these shots are just the raw AO bakes, I still have to go in and touch up the AO. It can take up to an hour or more just to bake the AO. Normal maps took less than ten minutes to do (including the projection cage). Just got to cast the seats and I'm moving on to texturing.

The instruments that are completed are lit. During normal gameplay they won't be lit, but you will have a switch on the overhead panel to turn on the cockpit panel back light. I would like to be able to turn on and off the internal cockpit lights so you have better visibility.

Im thoroughly impressed. Well done! Looking forward to it.

[SkyHook]

Awesome, simply awesome..

[ZRM]

Just keeping everyone updated.

Keep in mind these shots are just the raw AO bakes, I still have to go in and touch up the AO. It can take up to an hour or more just to bake the AO. Normal maps took less than ten minutes to do (including the projection cage). Just got to cast the seats and I'm moving on to texturing.

The instruments that are completed are lit. During normal gameplay they won't be lit, but you will have a switch on the overhead panel to turn on the cockpit panel back light. I would like to be able to turn on and off the internal cockpit lights so you have better visibility.

images

Very nice. You really are very good at this, and I can tell you've made cockpits before.

It is possible to have lights that you can turn on and off.

Since we will end up with several instruments and displays I have been working on the infrastructure of the MFD renderer, so that you can easily use it to render most instrument designs.

Here is the mockup I showed before:

And here is the ADI portion of it used in the game:

This was specified by a config file, so the entire ADI is completely customisable. A different config file could easily be used to generate, for example, the ADI for the HUD, with no changes to the plugin code.

Here's the config file for that MFD consisting of just the ADI from the mockup, written in YAML:

size: [512, 512]
instruments:
  - ADI:
      # [x, y, width, height]
      coords: [74, 77, 316, 362]
      horizon:
        # [r, g, b] or [r, g, b, a]
        line_colour: [1, 1, 1]
        sky_colour: [0.0863, 0.8314, 1]
        ground_colour: [0.7843, 0.5686, 0]
        line_thickness: 2
      pitch_scale:
        tex: pitch_scale
        mask_tex: pitch_mask
        # specified in pixels per degree
        increment: 6.33333333
      bank_indicator:
        scale_tex: bank_scale
        scale_tex_centre: [157, 180]
        scale_radius: 159
        marker_tex: bank_marker
      central_marker:
        tex: marker_1
        tex_centre: [103, 4]

This is by no means anything like what the final ADI will look like (the mockup is being used mainly for testing), but even if you do not like the final ADI you can easily customise it using your own textures and settings.

The config file contains a list of instrument definitions. Order is important - it is the same order the instruments are drawn in, so you will be able to, for example, overlay everything on top of the ADI.

So now I can work on adding more instrument specifications to this system, without worrying about their exact design.

Edited August 12, 2013 by ZRM

[drtedastro]

The work that is going into this mod is fantastic. Helldiver you will end up with one of the most downloaded mod's I am sure. Earlier in the posts, there was a discussion regarding which symbol would be used in the adi. I hope that we will have the option for either the old standard --v-- or the newer inverted V as shown above. I can see many times where one would be better than the other, but no overall winner. Thanks for letting me put my 2 cents worth in. I just wish that I had enough 'artistic flare' that I could help. For me, all programming stays with strictly engineering math and physics.... (right side of brain is empty....)

Great job and I really look forward ( as does many more) to this release...

[runmug]

may i suggest blue seats.

[DisarmingBaton5]

Wouldn't that make them look a bit like airline seats?

[shadowsutekh]

How about these for inspiration? I think were at one point ejection seats, the ones that are the rear set of cockpit chairs from the Falcon. I've always wanted a set of those.

http://s222.photobucket.com/user/rogueleader1/media/crew.jpg.html

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/ep5/escape12.jpg

http://www.therpf.com/attachments/f11/screen-accurate-millennium-falcon-cockpit-cg-model-starwars.jpg-73743d1320511071 --> the one Luke is sitting in.