[Airships in 1.12.3] HooliganLabs Mods

[Storywalker4]

So based on what I've picked up from what I've read, does that mean making permanent Joolian floating bases/cities is impossible right now? Because you can't "land on Jool" by attaching an anchor like you use to be able to.

[KhaosCorp]

I am a horrible artist...but get past that and I have an idea....an idea I had a bit before you took the mod over.

Modular Rigid Airships!

Would only be 3 parts to, would be solution to MANY builds.

Each part would be an envelope...maybe 12m around, whatever they need to be so each part is equal to an Octo envelope.

This would also make it super easy to build gondola style airships. You can build the ship part, find your center of mass, and mount midship envelope bit right over that, then build out in each direction as needed.

I would make em myself, but I'm super bad a t texturing, and probably just plain don't have time (not to mention haven't touched Unity in near 2 years).

 

[JewelShisen]

1 hour ago, KhaosCorp said:

I am a horrible artist...but get past that and I have an idea....an idea I had a bit before you took the mod over.

Modular Rigid Airships!

Would only be 3 parts to, would be solution to MANY builds.

Each part would be an envelope...maybe 12m around, whatever they need to be so each part is equal to an Octo envelope.

This would also make it super easy to build gondola style airships. You can build the ship part, find your center of mass, and mount midship envelope bit right over that, then build out in each direction as needed.

I would make em myself, but I'm super bad a t texturing, and probably just plain don't have time (not to mention haven't touched Unity in near 2 years).

 

That is actually what I am working on now! Going for a 15m scale though! Just need to figure out how to get Unity 5 to export the .mu files...

[KhaosCorp]

Awesome!

I just pulled 12m off top of my head with zero math involved.

Heh...I dont even recall just how to get part tools into Unity, oh well.

I don't need to make parts anyway, bad enough one of my creations is still in circulation lol.

Really can't wait for you to be done...have been messing around with the Karibou Rover bits as gondola for a heavy mining dirgable. This kinda modular envelope will make building and flying such a craft a breeze. 

If you fellow airship lovers have yet to look at that Karibou mod you really should...parts seem made for this application, you get great landerlegs and wheels in perfect package. 

 

Also using another mod thats new to me called Kerbal Sports..its adds fishing of all things. Working on a blimp that uses EPLP to deploy fishing cabins across kerbin (and hopefuly Lathye if I can fit it on a rocket).

[JewelShisen]

3 minutes ago, KhaosCorp said:

Awesome!

I just pulled 12m off top of my head with zero math involved.

Heh...I dont even recall just how to get part tools into Unity, oh well.

I don't need to make parts anyway, bad enough one of my creations is still in circulation lol.

Really can't wait for you to be done...have been messing around with the Karibou Rover bits as gondola for a heavy mining dirgable. This kinda modular envelope will make building and flying such a craft a breeze. 

If you fellow airship lovers have yet to look at that Karibou mod you really should...parts seem made for this application, you get great landerlegs and wheels in perfect package. 

 

Also using another mod thats new to me called Kerbal Sports..its adds fishing of all things. Working on a blimp that uses EPLP to deploy fishing cabins across kerbin (and hopefuly Lathye if I can fit it on a rocket).

I just need to figure out how to get Unity 5 to make the mu file and I will be good to start testing!

[colmo]

@EnzoMeertens - The KKS leak system would work well with this, though deformation would have to be turned off.

As buoyancy isn't controlled be an onboard resource but a plugin, I'm not entirely sure how it would interact though?

[Storywalker4]

3 hours ago, colmo said:

@EnzoMeertens - The KKS leak system would work well with this, though deformation would have to be turned off.

As buoyancy isn't controlled be an onboard resource but a plugin, I'm not entirely sure how it would interact though?

This has just given me an idea. So, many of us have a lot of realism mods installed and though this mod is very useful, it's not particularly realistic. So, perhaps we could add a heating and resource mechanic to it. Rather than directly apply force, calculate buoyancy force by certain parameters. Such as the amount of gaseous hydrogen/helium in the balloon. As well as the temperature (or maybe relative temperature) of the balloon to the outside air. How would this work? Well, you would have a liquid hydrogen/helium (liquidfuel could be used as liquid hydrogen) resource what you could heat up into gas form at the expense  of electric charge. Then you could further heat the gas up to raise increase buoyancy (using EC). Obviously a bit simplistic compared to actually balloons, but it'd make air balloons more than just free power. Thoughts? Could this be fairly easily implemented?

And this would make gas leaks happen if you crashed the balloon into something with KKS.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Storywalker4

[colmo]

35 minutes ago, Storywalker4 said:

This has just given me an idea. So, many of us have a lot of realism mods installed and though this mod is very useful, it's not particularly realistic. So, perhaps we could add a heating and resource mechanic to it. Rather than directly apply force, calculate buoyancy force by certain parameters. Such as the amount of gaseous hydrogen/helium in the balloon. As well as the temperature (or maybe relative temperature) of the balloon to the outside air. How would this work? Well, you would have a liquid hydrogen/helium (liquidfuel could be used as liquid hydrogen) resource what you could heat up into gas form at the expense  of electric charge. Then you could further heat the gas up to raise increase buoyancy (using EC). Obviously a bit simplistic compared to actually balloons, but it'd make air balloons more than just free power. Thoughts? Could this be fairly easily implemented?

And this would make gas leaks happen if you crashed the balloon into something with KKS.

I believe the issue is that you can't have resources with negative mass, and the simulation doesn't extend to simulating lift adiabatically. This is why boats can't have a resource like DisplacedWater and why airships with very light Hydrogen or Helium wouldn't float.

[JewelShisen]

2 hours ago, Storywalker4 said:

This has just given me an idea. So, many of us have a lot of realism mods installed and though this mod is very useful, it's not particularly realistic. So, perhaps we could add a heating and resource mechanic to it. Rather than directly apply force, calculate buoyancy force by certain parameters. Such as the amount of gaseous hydrogen/helium in the balloon. As well as the temperature (or maybe relative temperature) of the balloon to the outside air. How would this work? Well, you would have a liquid hydrogen/helium (liquidfuel could be used as liquid hydrogen) resource what you could heat up into gas form at the expense  of electric charge. Then you could further heat the gas up to raise increase buoyancy (using EC). Obviously a bit simplistic compared to actually balloons, but it'd make air balloons more than just free power. Thoughts? Could this be fairly easily implemented?

And this would make gas leaks happen if you crashed the balloon into something with KKS.

 

1 hour ago, colmo said:

I believe the issue is that you can't have resources with negative mass, and the simulation doesn't extend to simulating lift adiabatically. This is why boats can't have a resource like DisplacedWater and why airships with very light Hydrogen or Helium wouldn't float.

 

2 hours ago, Storywalker4 said:

This has just given me an idea. So, many of us have a lot of realism mods installed and though this mod is very useful, it's not particularly realistic. So, perhaps we could add a heating and resource mechanic to it. Rather than directly apply force, calculate buoyancy force by certain parameters. Such as the amount of gaseous hydrogen/helium in the balloon. As well as the temperature (or maybe relative temperature) of the balloon to the outside air. How would this work? Well, you would have a liquid hydrogen/helium (liquidfuel could be used as liquid hydrogen) resource what you could heat up into gas form at the expense  of electric charge. Then you could further heat the gas up to raise increase buoyancy (using EC). Obviously a bit simplistic compared to actually balloons, but it'd make air balloons more than just free power. Thoughts? Could this be fairly easily implemented?

And this would make gas leaks happen if you crashed the balloon into something with KKS.

As Colmo stated, you can't have a resource with negative mass. The best I could do would be to find out if we could make the envelopes use some EC when they are filling or deflating to simulate them having to be pressurized or deflated.

[KhaosCorp]

Did you ever get U5 to play nice?

Supposedly if you have newest part tools then .mu should just be one of the write option. Not sure though as I have no way of testing right now.

Let me get this next print going and I will see if I can do lil test.

[JewelShisen]

16 minutes ago, KhaosCorp said:

Did you ever get U5 to play nice?

Supposedly if you have newest part tools then .mu should just be one of the write option. Not sure though as I have no way of testing right now.

Let me get this next print going and I will see if I can do lil test.

Ok I missed part of the import it seems... Oops...

Edited May 6, 2016 by JewelShisen

[JewelShisen]

I hate trying to figure out node placement...

Edited May 6, 2016 by JewelShisen

[Drew Kerman]

6 minutes ago, JewelShisen said:

I hate trying to figure out node placement...

NodeHelper is still a bit buggy in 1.1.2 I think but should be useful

[sirrliv]

Apparently I'm a little late to the party, but I cannot tell you guys how thrilled I am that this magnificent mod is back in business. Back in 1.0.4 this was my all-time favorite mod, especially since I kind of sucked at building larger airplanes (I still do. Anything around Mk.3/Mk.4 superplane just will not fly for me). But with this, I was able to amass an empire of floating gentle giants. So you can imagine how upset I was when 1.0.5 came along and I found this mod was A. no longer compatible, and B. dead. So imagine my glee when I wake up this morning to see Kottabos' mod spotlight video heralding this mod's glorious revival.

And imagine further my glee at seeing some of the posts here, including the rumors of upcoming new modular airship parts, including aerodynamic nose sections and midsections with proper attachment nodes to make airship construction easier and more versatile. I presume that at least part of these will be based on SpannerMonkey's experimental models, with their lovely classic zeppelin-style looks? I dearly hope so.

[Storywalker4]

No, no I don't mean negative mass. What I mean is you have the resource as a "physical" way of computing the buoyancy. What do I mean? You have X amount of gas in your balloon at Y relative temperature (internal-ambient). The plugin takes those values and sets the buoyant forces at Z. The X and Y don't actually cause the lift, the current system stays the same. Just instead of user input defining lift, user input defines these variables, which defines lift.That way we could simulate envelope failures and require EC for flight. Am I making sense or am I just rambling? Basically it's just an indirect tag-on to add just a little extra challenge. All you're using the resource and temperature values for are calculating the normal values for the mod. Would it help if I used numbers for an example?

Edited May 6, 2016 by Storywalker4

[KhaosCorp]

1 hour ago, JewelShisen said:

Ok I missed part of the import it seems... Oops...

Yea..I must not be importing part tools properly.

Tried a quick test and I'm not even getting write option.

I have not touched Unity in so long though. Spend all my time in Blender and S3D these days lol.

[Gnoyze]

On 5/5/2016 at 10:18 AM, JewelShisen said:

Alright so here is what I am working on at the moment. A MASSIVE 15m diameter modular airship that will come complete with an attaching part under it sized for Mk 2 parts to serve as the viewing decks.

Great! Definitely using Mk2 Stockalike Expansion with this. (Can we get a stockalike textures option? like a separate packet to replace the default textures. I'd do it myself but I dont have the programs or the hardware)

16 hours ago, Storywalker4 said:

So based on what I've picked up from what I've read, does that mean making permanent Joolian floating bases/cities is impossible right now? Because you can't "land on Jool" by attaching an anchor like you use to be able to.

How do you plan to "float" in an atmosphere of Hydrogen gas? You'd need to manipulate quantum struts physics to do so.

47 minutes ago, Storywalker4 said:

No, no I don't mean negative mass. What I mean is you have the resource as a "physical" way of computing the buoyancy. What do I mean? You have X amount of gas in your balloon at Y relative temperature (internal-ambient). The plugin takes those values and sets the buoyant forces at Z. The X and Y don't actually cause the lift, the current system stays the same. Just instead of user input defining lift, user input defines these variables, which defines lift.That way we could simulate envelope failures and require EC for flight. Am I making sense or am I just rambling? Basically it's just an indirect tag-on to add just a little extra challenge. All you're using the resource and temperature values for are calculating the normal values for the mod. Would it help if I used numbers for an example?

TL;DR You mean that we adjust the volume of gas in the envelope, while the external pressure and external/skin/internal heat interaction determines the density of the gas, thereby calculating the kn force of lift, or buoyancy?

4 hours ago, colmo said:

I believe the issue is that you can't have resources with negative mass, and the simulation doesn't extend to simulating lift adiabatically. This is why boats can't have a resource like DisplacedWater and why airships with very light Hydrogen or Helium wouldn't float.

Negative mass isn't even a realistic term. you'd have a Mass • Volume = Density, where Density < Ambient External Pressure. though I dont know if KSP can calculate that. Perhaps ask @ferram4 if he knows of a way?

[Storywalker4]

2 hours ago, Gnoyze said:

Great! Definitely using Mk2 Stockalike Expansion with this. (Can we get a stockalike textures option? like a separate packet to replace the default textures. I'd do it myself but I dont have the programs or the hardware)

How do you plan to "float" in an atmosphere of Hydrogen gas? You'd need to manipulate quantum struts physics to do so.

TL;DR You mean that we adjust the volume of gas in the envelope, while the external pressure and external/skin/internal heat interaction determines the density of the gas, thereby calculating the kn force of lift, or buoyancy?

Negative mass isn't even a realistic term. you'd have a Mass • Volume = Density, where Density < Ambient External Pressure. though I dont know if KSP can calculate that. Perhaps ask @ferram4 if he knows of a way?

More or less, you don't have to show exactly the volume through the animations. And you could use different kinds of gases that have different inherent lifting abilities (hydrogen ballon vs hot air balloon). Perhaps one could also add possible envelope failure if the pressure in the balloon is too high.

Also, when I last used it this mod ignored atmospheric composition, and just used density. Back when you could "land" on Jool one could save a craft using an achor reaching down onto the "ground." So, screw physics. What do you think this is, a physics game?

Edited May 6, 2016 by Storywalker4

[JewelShisen]

Ok let me go on and put an end to this.

I will not be adding any form of lifting gases, heating,  etc. 

[kerbalresearch]

Any plans on new textures? Not complaining, but haven't the same textures been used for like 2 years? They dont really fit in the same style as most other mods/stock textures. They kind of stand out. Also they look a bit low res, I dont expect anything, i just thought it might improve the whole experience.

Edited May 6, 2016 by kerbalresearch

[JewelShisen]

13 minutes ago, kerbalresearch said:

Any plans on new textures? Not complaining, but haven't the same textures been used for like 2 years? They dont really fit in the same style as most other mods/stock textures. They kind of stand out. Also they look a bit low res, I dont expect anything, i just thought it might improve the whole experience.

I am planning to update the textures on the parts that I make, both with unique AND stock alike ones, but the original part set will be keeping their old textures out of respect to Hooligan for his work originally making the mod.

[kerbalresearch]

Just now, JewelShisen said:

I am planning to update the textures on the parts that I make, both with unique AND stock alike ones, but the original part set will be keeping their old textures out of respect to Hooligan for his work originally making the mod.

Thats good enough for me, thanks, im looking forward to the stockalike ones.

[Gnoyze]

Idea: Deployable envelopes, for mk2 and mk3 formfactor parts. (wouldn't be rigid of course.) Kinda would open up like a storage bay and release the envelop. the mk3 could have some tank volume as well, or just be structural. (possibly having an understorage, divided by a hallway for transfering kerbals)

Thanks

[JewelShisen]

Ok so here is an idea I have been having. A set of parts, either mk2 or surface attaching, that would have a variable mass. They would be perfect for letting you adjust where your CoM is on an airship.

[Drew Kerman]

Just wanna say I'm psyched to see this mod coming back to life. Will eventually get around to re-writing the background history of my KSA reboot roleplay so that kerbals are using airships when they begin to come out from underground. Which works great because it lets me go through the tech tree to re-discover airplanes, a lost art nearly forgotten since the near-extinction