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Cilph

By Cilph
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KerbMav

KerbMav

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yesterday I managed to set up a nice flight computer "program" - I let it burn one node automatically ... - after realizing that I had to set and "enter" the delay before the dV value ... got it right, it worked. It then took me a while, weird burns and two quickloads to learn that I had to "0" the delay again to quit queing my commands and have direct control (I play without lightspeed delay) over my vessel again. :P

What really freaked me out was, that after tweaking the orbits of two of my satellites to the same orbital period, when I rotated them to better face the solar panels to Kerbol, the periods changed again ... !!!

Lesson learned: Built your satellites in a way that their solar panels can face the star while pointing prograde, rotate them to do face the star and then play around with the orbital period timing. :P

Even when i'm pointing right at KFC it still says that there are no coms devices. i've tried with every antenna. Whats the problem?!

You are not eating enough fresh food? :wink:

Can you post a picture of your orbit/map view? Makes it so much easier to judge the situation. :)

Short: Antennas must have each other in range (it is not additive) and there must be free line of sight, no planet/moon inbetween.

Edited by KerbMav
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Sacred Aardvark

Sacred Aardvark

Posted
Posted
They do, the one around minmus is targeting kerbin with the dts and the one around kerbin is targeting minmus with a dts - no signal. But I can target mission control with the minmus dts and get contact till MC faces the wrong direction.

Is the one around Minmus actually inside Minmus SOI, or just near Minmus in Kerbins SOI, when you're pointing the dish at Minmus?

Also, how the heck did you manage to reach the moon from a semi-sync orbit with just a 5Mm omni... The Mun is >10Mm :huh:

Ooo... you probably had a 12h orbit instead of the 3 hour one I was thinking :P

Even when i'm pointing right at KFC it still says that there are no coms devices. i've tried with every antenna. Whats the problem?!

Thx

Are the antennas activated? In stock they start up automatically when sending science, in RT you need to manually activate and disable them (since some of them rip off in atmosphere)

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Sacred Aardvark

Sacred Aardvark

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What really freaked me out was, that after tweaking the orbits of two of my satellites to the same orbital period, when I rotated them to better face the solar panels to Kerbol, the periods changed again ... !!!

Yeah that's fun, I had a lovely time sorting out one of my sats, when turning it prograde had my semimajor axis too high, and turning it retrograde made the SMA drop below what it was supposed to be :P Eventually had a facepalm moment and just pointed it rad- and all was well :D

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AdmiralTigerclaw

AdmiralTigerclaw

Posted
Posted
Sure.

Sorry i'm linking the pictures, i dont know how to insert them in the post :/

I have only succeeded to link sat #1 to MC, and the two others i can't link to #1 and then to MC. I can't communicate with to vessels, only directly to MC.

All sattelites are geostationary.

My map:

file:///Users/[REDACTED]/Desktop/Ska%CC%88rmavbild%202013-11-25%20kl.%2010.35.15.png

Link to the sattelite i'm using:

file:///Users/[REDACTED]/Desktop/Ska%CC%88rmavbild%202013-11-25%20kl.%2010.36.15.png

Thx

Err...

You might want to familiarize yourself with the internet a little more bud.

The links you gave us are file directories on your own computer. Not only can we not look at them because the directory address has nothing to do with where your PC is on the internet, but if I'm not mistaken, your name is right there for all the world to see.

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MaxP

MaxP

Posted
Posted (edited)
All the three dishes I've used, the 88-88, DTS-M1 and KR-7 have worked, though haven't used the 88-88 for body targeting yet due to sticking to the Kerbin-system, and I've just verified that the KR-7 on my KSO is targeting the mun and connecting just fine to the satellite in Muns orbit (which has a DTS-M1 pointed at Kerbin).

Are you sure you have a connection exactly with directional antennas?

Did you tried to deactivate omni-directional ones?

Omni-antennas works fine.

May be it is a problem with the identical dishes?

I have the lander on Minmus (on north pole) and repeater on Mun (north pole also), both with KR-7.

If both are pointed at palnets - I've got "No contact" in all situations. With one pointed directly to another vessel - all fine.

Then, another example.

That Minmus lander has two dishes, one pointed at Mun and another pointed at Kerbin, and comsat, orbiting the Kerbin, which is within both dish angles and range, and have KR-14 pointed at lander.

The commsat has connection with KSC, but no change with lander.

How it works?

Edited by MaxP
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Sacred Aardvark

Sacred Aardvark

Posted
Posted (edited)
Hmm, all works fine in the SOI of the Minmus, thanks to last page ))

The sat was near the Minmus, but not in the SOI.

Yeah, there appears to be an issue where if a dish is pointing at a body, it will only connect to targets inside that body's SOI.

Thus when you're targeting Minmus and your ship is still in Kerbin SOI approaching Minmus (or on the fake-L5 like my sat), the dish targeting Minmus will not pick it up.

I vaguely referenced it in the post you quoted, but this has been a "known" issue for at least the last 20 pages, but I'm only now getting roundabout confirmation that it is in fact happening to others and isn't just my ****up, while Cilph hasn't yet said it to be Working as Intended and as such can start seriously considering making a bug report (without losing my first-born). If my **** is even in such a condition anymore that I can actually replicate it in a reasonable way, due to over-engineering around it for the last week... Suppose I could just start a new test-sandbox for it or something. :)

Still, at least I think I've managed to shorten my description of the issue a bunch...

"Dish targeting a Body, will not connect to any vessels outside that target Bodys SOI, even if they are within the Cone of the Dish."

[edit to avoid double posting]

This is relevant??

I'm not sure, but I'm starting to be... Just wish someone would take notice of my posts on the matter and throw me a bone and give it a whirl on their end, so I'd know if it's just Me messing something up or if I need to make a bug report. :|

Edited by Sacred Aardvark
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tuib598

tuib598

Posted
Posted

Ok thx

To draw it again, i have put satellites in orbit, but i can't send information between vessels; i can only send directly to MC.

how do i send info between vessels?

thanks

9DWhKcI.png

This is the satellites i have put in orbit(geosync)

RBdnKYb.png

This is the satellites i'm using.

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MaxP

MaxP

Posted
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"Dish targeting a Body, will not connect to any vessels outside that target Bodys SOI, even if they are within the Cone of the Dish."

I've tested within the SOI, and the problem still there - see corrected post. Within the SOI or not, it doesn't work for me ((

Edited by MaxP
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KerbMav

KerbMav

Posted
Posted (edited)
Ok thx

To draw it again, i have put satellites in orbit, but i can't send information between vessels; i can only send directly to MC.

how do i send info between vessels?

thanks

Geostationary satellites (at the altitude to be geostationary) should be able to connect to each other with either the 5Mm ranged omni-antenna (the smaller one is not sufficient here) or by targeting each other with a dish each.

The map shows that the dish(es?) on your satellite is only targeting KSC and that any present (but not visible on your shot) omni-antenna is either out of range of another satellite or not activated.

PS: All these RCS ports are a bit overkill, arent they? :)

Edited by KerbMav
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DasBananenbrot

DasBananenbrot

Posted
Posted (edited)
Config file. EnableSignalDelay = False. It generates once you run the plugin.

Anyhow, I'm spending some time on documentation this weekend, and I hope to put it all on the Github wiki.

Started the game with Remote Tech 2 and after that I still can't find a config file?

Edit: Nevermind, I overlooked it it seems....

Edited by DasBananenbrot
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jordanjay29

jordanjay29

Posted
Posted
I usually put 8-10 because you're going to be launching more stuff. (sats, ships, probes,) and you're going to want them ALL to talk to each other. So the more, the better.

I might do that, I'll just need to equip them with a few more dishes.

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Sacred Aardvark

Sacred Aardvark

Posted
Posted
I've tested within the SOI, and the problem still there - see corrected post. Within the SOI or not, it doesn't work for me ((

Then I don't know what to say. Except you earlier said it worked in the SOI, and I responded based on that.

You mentioned them being on the poles, so I would ask about LoS, but if a direct target works, then that's not it and I'm drawing a blank.

Now for something completely different: (not really completely, but anyway)

Just to point out that there is nothing fundamentally broken with the cone targeting (and in reality it's probably more of a poor excuse to post pictures of my small network :P )

http://imgur.com/fFXd6lV

As you can see the sat has dishes pointed at Mun and Kerbin (and one pointless one at mun relay, since it's in fact in omni range of it)

And the connections work just fine:

http://imgur.com/fncmzht

Note that the KSO satellites have a link towards Mun, Minmus and active ship, and due to that, the active ship in the picture is the one landed on the Mun, so that the active ship targeting wont interfere with the results on testing the Mun orbiter connectivity (since the landed ship doesn't have LoS to KSO atm). As you can see the signal is bounced from the lander through the Mun L5-relay back to Mun orbit and from there towards Kerbin.

And at the risk of sounding arrogant, I'm fairly confident there aren't massive issues with the cone targeting system that aren't originated by a faulty control actuator (that is to say, the user) because...

http://imgur.com/GVB8RQ9

http://imgur.com/W46Gmpn

As you can see, I do quite a lot of planetary targeting, I think like half my connections are planetary at least in one direction and several, like the Mun orbiter, are purely planetary and work as expected, so the cone system can't be too broken. (or I'm a wizard, which seems unlikely :wink: )

Oh, and no, I don't usually play with the dish cones visible, they're a mess :D (could we get unique colors per dish (atleast on the active ship), pretty please Cilph? *puppyeyes* ) I love my spinning web of orange lines though. (although I Love my 6x2 satellite omni network at 420km even more, but it's so tiny it doesn't really show in the big shots ^_^ )

Speaking of which, think I'll go watch those spin around at a 1k*warp for a while ^_^ (while planning my next Mun mission, For Moar Science! :cool: )

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Cilph

Cilph

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Kay, who of you were interested in doing documentation? I've done f-all about that this weekend even though I said I was going to. I've decided to put it on the Github wiki and link to that.

Contact me with your GitHub info and I'll add you as collaborator. Just having a GitHub account allows you to edit the wiki.

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Sacred Aardvark

Sacred Aardvark

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If you have it working, how about a step by step please. Lets put a 4 Sats in Geo above mission control, each with a Comm 32 and 2 dts and a Sat around minmus with comm 32 and dts, how are you targeting for cone coverage?

Didn't turn out to be a step by step, more like step here and step there what with the launches an all skipped... Hopefuly you guys can work out the intermediary launch steps and stuff... :sealed: (fun fact, this first paragraph of the post is actually the last to be written. Okay maybe "fun" fact was pushing it... another fact, it took over an hour to type this up trying to make sure i haven't messed anything up and rephrasing stuff, I've been dreading a browser crash for the last threee quarters and am feeling a bit loopy at this point :confused: so none of this might make any sense... )

Just to make sure there's no confusion, this assumes the Minmus-satellite to be inside Minmus-SOI, not in the pseudo-L5/L4 point, and at least one of the Geostationaries has LoS to KSC, and all have LoS to each other. Also, the Mun and Minmus are assumed to be on opposite sides of Kerbin, so we can ignore any possibility of Mun blocking our LoS. (or if you prefer, the Mun just blew up, it doesn't exists for the duration of this post, or whatever, I just don't want crap from someone because their comms don't work because of the Mun and it's my fault ^_^ )

Also, this sort of assumes you have no other satellites, but that at the same time that you've managed to get these sats magically into the right positions and are able to connect to them, since you need to alter the targets. Attempting to LAUNCH a network following this "guide" (really isn't, I can't do guides) will probably not go well :P

Oh, and when I mention a dish being targeted towards something, I am also assuming that dish to either be already activated or to be activated after the target has been set.

Righto, think that's the ground rules or disclaimer covered I think, let's get started with the checklist.

0. All satellites are in the assumed places. (4sats in geo, suitably spaced. one sat inside minmus soi and so forth...)

1. Activate Com32 on all the Geo-sats (that's the 5Mm version, right?) for KSC and fellow Geo-sat connecting.

1½ Addenum: There should be an omni-line between one or two geo-sat and KSC depending on the alignment of the 4 geosats, and omni-line between all geos, if not, something is wonky and the next bit wont work, might as well stop here.

2. Target one DTS-M1 from All Geo-sats to Minmus. (technically with a 4-geo-pattern you'll only need 2 opposing sats to point to minmus for coverage, but I like redundancy)

3. Target one DTS-M1 from satellite orbiting Minmus to Kerbin. (if for some reason using KR-7 instead of DTS-M1, the cone should still be enough to cover geo-sats, but not 100% sure)

4. Have ... um... Scratch that, damn this was a short list. Maybe add a couple more satellites to Minmus? So you don't get blackouts due to the minmus-sat being on the wrong side. (do step 3. for all sats at Minmus expected to connect directly to Kerbin)

Yay, you should now have active connection between Minmus-sat and KSC, via the geostationary-sats if KSC is behind the horizon, by simply using planetary targeting for long range communication. Feel free to change the cases on Minmus to Mun, except you can't, since the Mun doesn't exist! Anyway, once this post is done and the Mun pops back into existence, the same procedure should work for connecting the Mun as well.

Also, I think the KR-7 has enough angle to cover the Kerbin geo-sats from Minmus, but not 100% sure, so if using those instead if DTS-M1, double check the cone display. :) Pretty sure the KR-7 doesn't have the cone to cover geo-sats from the Mun and any dishes bigger than that have such a tiny cones at this short ranges they can barely cover a fly. :P

This is merely to connect via planetary targeting, obviously this wont work as a proper network for flying your probes due to the lack of communication with the active ship, however I've thrown some thoughts hastily together that could use this as a control network:

Okay, and that concludes the reasonably well thought out portion of this post, the rest is me getting a bit bored and tired and running with it, there might be issues with functionality, read the rest with some additional thought, for the stuff above I tried to make sure everything is written and thought of correctly.

So right, we have spare stuff and just connecting a sat isn't all that exiting, lets do a mission with our brand new network (assuming it works, no point trying this if things fell apart in steps 1-4...)

5. activate the Com32 on minmus-sat . (and if you want to be boring, point the spare dish at active vessel)

6. Launch a vessel with a 32 and a DTS-M1, probably a dipole for the ascent as well.

7. open the 32 once out of atmo, target the DTS towards Minmus or the Minmus-sat.

8. Perform a Minmus-injection

9. If you need a mid course correction, your minmus-sat (pointing a dish at kerbin) should pick up your ships M1 (pointed at Minmus, or directly at the sat), and help bounce the signal back to Kerbin.. Well, assuming you stay between Minmus and Kerbin, and the Minmus-sat isn't behind Minmus in it's orbit :wink:

10. Once you get close enough, the direction of the cone and location of your ship will probably not line up anymore and you will lose connection, but at that point you're hopefully getting close enough that you get picked up on the omni. (this is the bit that becomes boring if you just point a dish from minmus-sat to active vessel, and from active vessel to minmus-sat, or since we had spare dishes on the geo-sats, you could have pointed their dishes at active vessel, and the active vessel DTS towards kerbin, being even more boring :rolleyes: )

11. If you have a connection, decelerate for gods sake! If not, well... It's a nice view I guess, hope you don't crash.

Okay, that's a lot of text, I might have mucked something up so I take no responsibility for inaccuracies, but I have tried my best to portray everything in the correct fashion, if something doesn't make sense, feel free to ask for clarification. I'm not particularly good at explaining stuff or teaching anything so I hope I've made some sense :)

I lied at the top, it was the second to last thing to be written, this is the last one ending with this link that pretty much summarizes my feelings right now and I've just started noticing that my computer screen is wobbling at the edges and I think I'll take a break from staring at the computer screen now okay? Okay. Bye. :confused:

2448787213_michael_palin_gumby_my_brain_hurts_90686848168_xlarge_xlarge.png

Edited by Sacred Aardvark
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