Love the game BUT..........

[PDCWolf]

So you admit you know almost nothing about programming, development, and physics.

Like I said.

But system analysis is centered about programming and development. Physics? Yeah, I just know some basic formulas and from watching a huge ammount of launches I also know that THIS doesn't happen.

[stupid_chris]

Heya I can feel this thread slowly starting to blaze itself down. Keep your cool guys, there's no reason to get angry here We don't want to resort to closing this thread but we will if the tension won't drop.

[Alguien]

I personally wouldn't say aerodynamics are simplified for game play. They're simplified to be "good enough for now."

Generating accurate real-time aerodynamics for an infinite variety of random crafts that also happen to dynamically change form in real-time (staging, parts breaking off), isn't exactly an easy task.

Which is the problem, instead of fixing and finishing the stuff half implemented, they decide to jump into career mode. It doesn't give me the feeling than Squad knows what they are doing or are just trying to pick more stuff than they are able too

You do realize that people were crying for wheel when squad made them?

And i am sure there is some guy who wants Squad to add animations of the kebals taking a ****. Does that mean Squad sh

And you find the first implementation of career mode, which future updates will build upon, to be trash?

Yes, because stuff like that should come down later in developement, you dont start a house with the roof, dont you?

The kerman recruitment was a feature needed for when money is added, and the astronaut complex background was just something they made, while they were also doing other things.

yes and money then was pushed because science comes first, except they didnt add the sample picking animations they had for "when science comes" from some reason. But hey, this new background when recruiting it was so worth it

but according to your logic, the planeart pass would be just as much trash as the astronaut complex background screen. And I don't know about you, but I can wait for the aerodynamics redo.

Well, yes, plane art pass will be pointless without aerodynamic fix, they idea is than they remake plane and aerodynamic parts when the aerodynamic fix comes, so remake them fix something more than just looking better

Also, there currently is no way to add ksp 64 bit support, as the current unity x64 builds are extremely buggy and crashy.

Yeah, well, i dont think the game will survive a lot longer without the extra ram support at this rate, specially with that mentality of "JUST GET MODS TO FIX IT!"

[Deadweasel]

Honestly, I look at the stability bugs for stock parts the same way I do with mod parts. Sometimes they just don't seem to work together the way their appearance suggests they should. A lot of the B9 parts are oddly wobbly, even though they have a wide relative surface area with which to connect to one another.

However, since they look great and I have an idea I want to see in action, I just add a couple of struts inside the joint, shrug, and move along to try again.

[Shuttle]

EDIT: In Shuttle's image, I know what he's talking about, and there is some kind of bug associated with those engines, but I rarely see it, because if we're talking realism issues here, ROCKETS DON'T REST ON THEIR ENGINES. Heh.

Wobbling only got worse. And a small fuel tank also started to dance. I've already posted an image of 2500t N1 that didn't wobble, but these two fuel tanks do!

That thing has WAY to much thrust. That's your problem

I don't understand what you want to say.

[boxman]

@Alguin

Which is the problem, instead of fixing and finishing the stuff half implemented, they decide to jump into career mode. It doesn't give me the feeling than Squad knows what they are doing or are just trying to pick more stuff than they are able too

As much as I have been disagreeing i actually agree with the first part of your comment. Would have been better if they finished everything in the main game before starting on the career mode.

[PDCWolf]

Just because you don't SEE the reinforcements, doesn't mean that they aren't there

That thing has WAY to much thrust. That's your problem

Reinforcements run along the stages, that means they are internal and therefore they aren't wires running from a stage through the other and fixed by a series of girders. Fuel tanks should be structurally strong to support themselves and a certain ammount of cargo (which I don't exceed cause all my designs are based on a realistic 11% payload fraction. I don't even use asparagus).

Maybe you should ask yourself why this happens to you and not most of us?? I build huge lifters with 30+ mainsail engines and large red tanks, and yet this does not happen to me which suggests that you are doing something wrong. You should stop blaming the game for your own incompetence and maybe try to figure out what you are doing wrong.

And like wackjob said earlier... there is no wobble problems if you build a normal sized rocket and the wobble on the giant unrealistic lifters are solved by adding struts in the right places.

It doesn't happen to you because I build rockets to work and look as they should. I don't build asparagus pancakes or wide launchers. I build slim and beautiful pieces of engineering (that most of the time look like you know what because of that). My payloads are incredibly light for the rockets and they don't exceed the 11% payload fraction, meaning there's no over-stressing of parts. Even so, my "LongFart 1" (Obviously based on the longmarch rocket) would look like a banana -and destroy itself- without the internal struts going on between tanks. On top of all this, I never exceed a TWR of 1.55 on tall stages.

On rockets like these, struts shouldn't be needed at all.

Edited November 5, 2013 by PDCWolf

[Sirrobert]

Wobbling only got worse. And a small fuel tank also started to dance. I've already posted an image of 2500t N1 that didn't wobble, but these two fuel tanks do!

http://i.imgur.com/PllZS8X.jpg

I don't understand what you want to say.

Serieusly, you put 2 fuel tanks on the ground and they wobble? Right...

What I'm saying is: It has so much thrust, that every single tiny, minute wobble is amplifyd

[jwenting]

@Alguin

As much as I have been disagreeing i actually agree with the first part of your comment. Would have been better if they finished everything in the main game before starting on the career mode.

and if they had you, yes you, would be complaining that "Squad never adds anything new, they've been promising career mode for AAAAAAAAGES now and it's still not here!!!!!!!!!".

[Deadweasel]

Wobbling only got worse. And a small fuel tank also started to dance. I've already posted an image of 2500t N1 that didn't wobble, but these two fuel tanks do!

I don't understand what you want to say.

Maybe the problem is with the modeling process they're using. I mean, I see the point with those tanks and Mainsails. Oddly, none of the B9 or Novapunch engines and tanks seem prone to that kind of wobbling, despite many of them being quite a bit more powerful than a Mainsail.

[csanders]

Which is the problem, instead of fixing and finishing the stuff half implemented, they decide to jump into career mode. It doesn't give me the feeling than Squad knows what they are doing or are just trying to pick more stuff than they are able too

Or they just have a different priority than you, or they're working on that with other stuff, but that isn't ready for release yet.

Each release isn't the showcase of their entire productivity since the last release.

[Luckless]

Yes, because stuff like that should come down later in developement, you dont start a house with the roof, dont you?

You've never seen a house built roof-jack style? While technically you start with a foundation, you then build the roof directly over that so no one is ever more than a few feet off the ground. Then the walls are built and laid out on the ground around the roof. Roof is jacked up, walls raised and placed under it, and then the top story floor is framed and fastened. Siding is applied, even interior finishing may be done, and the whole thing gets jacked up to the next level and the process repeats.

Are you a software developer? Sometimes 'finishing' a 'feature' can't be done until more of the entire system is prototyped to the point that you can begin to run effective testing so you can make an informed decision on how you wish to proceed with the development of the software. This is especially true in game development. Unless of course you enjoy having really boring, uninteresting, and annoying to play games.

[Deadweasel]

Or they just have a different priority than you, or they're working on that with other stuff, but that isn't ready for release yet.

Each release isn't the showcase of their entire productivity since the last release.

I was about to say this, just not quite so simply and elegantly. Thanks for stating the point so much better than I would have.

Development is happening along many fronts, like a running race. Once enough of them come close to completion, focus moves to those tracks and helps them across the finish line. If there aren't other tracks close enough to finishing, they bundle up what they've got and BAM: new patch.

[csanders]

On rockets like these, struts shouldn't be needed at all.

Why not? Real rockets have them.

We're building with legos. Where we add 4 generic identical struts, real world engineers would use a single strut specifically designed for the task.

[_Aramchek_]

4,300 parts. Ran slow, don't get me wrong, but that hard limit doesn't exist. Just runs slow.

4,300 parts would be a slideshow, there is no consumer level cpu out there fast enough to run that many parts at any kind of reasonable framerate, and there are no server cpu's strong enough on a single thread to do it either.. And yes, I know what I'm talking about. But 600 parts..meh easy sauce.

[PDCWolf]

Why not? Real rockets have them.

We're building with legos. Where we add 4 generic identical struts, real world engineers would use a single strut specifically designed for the task.

Jesus christ sit down and think for a moment. Do you know what a strut is? It is a wire that goes from point A to point B and is so tense that it makes the parts it hold structurally stable, that's why radio antennas don't fall, they are tethered to the ground.

On rocketry, there's no hard wire. Fuel tanks are already structurally stable and made to hold a certain amount of weight. Every stage is manufactured to be able to carry the upper stage, the next stage and the payload while being pushed by an engine from behind.

Our fuel tanks are -supposed- to be structurally stable since they are delivered already encased (and encased with metal if you look. You can see the freaking bolts on the texture). They are supposed to not wobble, they are supposed to be joint together in any shape we want. They obviously have a limit somewhere, but those limits are ridiculously small, making us put them between wires so that they don't collapse into each other. YEAH, YOU READ RIGHT, FREAKING METAL REQUIRES WIRES SO THAT IT DOESN'T COLLAPSE INTO ITSELF, does that look correct to you? I hope not.

[Shuttle]

Serieusly, you put 2 fuel tanks on the ground and they wobble? Right...

What I'm saying is: It has so much thrust, that every single tiny, minute wobble is amplifyd

My english is pretty bad but this post looks like 100% trolling to me. I think that if 2500t rocket doesn't wobble then two fuel tanks that are ~100 times lighter shouldn't wobble as well.

Here is the video of N1 launch - no clamps! http://youtu.be/1ljrJt3wFig?t=55s

Maybe the problem is with the modeling process they're using. I mean, I see the point with those tanks and Mainsails. Oddly, none of the B9 or Novapunch engines and tanks seem prone to that kind of wobbling, despite many of them being quite a bit more powerful than a Mainsail.

As far as I understand, physical engine is just not advanced enough - there is no deformation in Unity, so the only thing parts can do under pressure is wobbling and dancing.

[Alguien]

You've never seen a house built roof-jack style? While technically you start with a foundation, you then build the roof directly over that so no one is ever more than a few feet off the ground. Then the walls are built and laid out on the ground around the roof. Roof is jacked up, walls raised and placed under it, and then the top story floor is framed and fastened. Siding is applied, even interior finishing may be done, and the whole thing gets jacked up to the next level and the process repeats.

"starting building the house with the roof" is a saying about starting with end stuff isn't a good idea, you weren't suppose to take it literally.

[stupid_chris]

The game is in development. Most features are incomplete. Getting angry about it like this won't help getting the game closer to completion.

Okay, since the previous warning was ineffective, this is as far as we'll go.

Thread closed.