(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

[sdj64]

It's taking a while with battle club taking up most of my KSP time, but I've finished Laythe.

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I think both of those mods would be allowed by this rule:

Also any helpful mod is accepted which doesn't add parts and doesn't change the physics (information mods, alarm clocks, enhanced navballs, docking cams, texture replacers, clouds, protractor, fuel balancer, chatterer, etc).

[Ziv]

Here is the report of my mission The Mighty Quest For Epic Science I will provide extra info on the science collected from the science archives of the game if it is required

Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Jebediah's Level with a GRAND TOUR!!!

WOW! Awesome. I really liked how you introduced your ships and main parts with Kronal Vessel Viewer.

This helped a lot to understand everything.

I think you have maxed out not the sicence only but the using of ion engines too! And all the mission is well-thought, especially when you send a Kerbal with a rover forward to collect science and then an other Kerbal arrives and they leave the planet together, with all the science in their pockets! Nice save at Tylo with RCS.

I also like that you built easy-to-understand basic stock ships, this will help a lot for the new players who are still looking for basic stock solutions.

Thank you for participating, you are welcome in the Hall of Fame between those few who did a GRAND TOUR!

Edited November 6, 2014 by Ziv

[Ziv]

Hello,

I think this may qualify as a Jeb level entry.

Details:

- 0.25, career, full tech tree

- Mods: Toolbar, MechJeb, TacFuelBalancer, Kerbal Alarm Clock

- 3 launches, Main ship, Main lander, Tylo Lander, Tylo lander launch also topped up the fuel before departure

- costs:

- J-V-CM: 272,622 credits, 518T on pad

- Laythe1: 55,038 credits, 7.45T on pad

- Tylo1: 94,664 credits, 136T on pad

- 94T fully assembled, fueled, ready to go

Mission Plan:

- Assemble ship in Kerbin orbit ~300km

- Jool Transfer

- Inside Jool SOI, reconfigure ship, dropping empty tank and engines.

- Tylo lander and Tug, piloted by Jeb

- Main ship with Tug and MultiLander

- Jeb goes to Tylo by way of a Jool aerobrake

- Main ship goes directly to Laythe, aerocapture

- Jeb Lands on Tylo, waits till he is needed

- Bill Lands on Laythe, goes for a swim, returns to ship

- Ship goes on to Vall

- Bob lands on Vall, returns to ship

- Ship goes to high Jool Orbit out near Bop

- Thompwin takes lander to Bop, lands, returns to ship

- Lemwise takes lander to Pol, lands, takes off

- Jeb leaves Tylo, switches to the tug, takes tug back to ship, refuels main ship

- Lemwise takes lander back to ship

- Main ship leaves Jool SOI, transfers back to Kerbin

- Aerocapture at Kerbin

- Lab and Hab return to KSC

- Profit

http://imgur.com/a/Zeest

There are many more details...

Thanks,

Pete

I liked how you built up your main ship, with the separated Tylo lander at the back, but sending up in two pieces. And the main ship looks nice with the lights as it goes into deep space.

Splitting up the ship before Jool aerobrake was a good idea, I guess you saved some deltaV there. Your Tylo tug+lander is nice and minimalistic, elegant solution.

I have some question about your main ship's fuel, because I can't track it by the pictures.

Let's say it was full after aerobraking to Laythe, and as the Laythe lander arrived back we see this picture. Your fuel is about 80%, let's say the big tank is 100% (720 fuel) and the missing part is the empty lander. It says it has about 3700 m/s.

What you did from here:

1. main ship goes to Vall orbit (230x230 km), that's about 1200-2200 dV (just a quick estimate) and X1 fuel

2. mini lander refueled after landing, D1 dV and about 160 fuel

3. main ship goes to high Jool orbit (about Bop orbit but circular), that's about 400-800 dV and X2 fuel

4. lander goes to Bop and then refueled, that's hard to estimate how much fuel was needed to refuel, but let's say about 50% so that's 90 fuel and so is lost D2 dV

5. here the main ship fuel was low here

- then the Tylo tug goes back and let's say it gives back +360 fuel (+D3 dV)

- going home from here is clear

So, there were fuel consumption like this from Laythe orbit:

Starting with about 3700 dV and 720 fuel

1. -1200-2200 m/s (-X1 fuel)

2. -D1 m/s (-160 fuel)

3. -400-800 m/s (-X2 fuel)

4. -D2 m/s (-90 fuel)

then the fuel was around 20%, so about 140. This means all of the above maneuvers was made from 500 fuel.

I know it's not linear (bigger fuel consumption at the beginning) but you spent about half of your dV (which is more than half of the fuel) and then 250 fuel from the 720.

So this is not impossible at all but really close. So can you please show me some pictures during these steps with the main ship fuel level on?

[Ziv]

can we use the time control and trajectories mods?

Trajectories is allowed because it's just an informative mode. Time control is allowed too.

[sullivap]

Ziv,

I added 5 images to the album that I hope will help with some of the numbers. The first two images (screenshot537 & screenshot539) were in Laythe orbit just before and during the Vall transfer. The Laythe orbit was eccentric (515x75) and the ejection was timed well so that the ejection and transfer only took 382 m/s. A mid-course correction of 15 or so m/s was made so that I was able to insert into another very elliptical orbit around Vall (1.93Mmx186km). The only image (screenshot570) that demonstrates the Vall orbit is during the post landing rendezvous and its from the lander's perspective, but it is about to dock, so they are in the same orbit. The Vall ejection burn was only 157 m/s (screenshot580) and this sent the ship out to a 105 Mm orbit over Jool. It was followed by a burn to raise the periapsis. The final orbit is shown in screenshot606.

I also have .sfs files at each major milestone (opportunity for bad flying) that I can upload or email, they are only 1.74 MB zipped if you would like to inspect them.

Thanks,

Pete

[Ziv]

Hello,

I think this may qualify as a Jeb level entry.

Details:

- 0.25, career, full tech tree

- Mods: Toolbar, MechJeb, TacFuelBalancer, Kerbal Alarm Clock

- 3 launches, Main ship, Main lander, Tylo Lander, Tylo lander launch also topped up the fuel before departure

- costs:

- J-V-CM: 272,622 credits, 518T on pad

- Laythe1: 55,038 credits, 7.45T on pad

- Tylo1: 94,664 credits, 136T on pad

- 94T fully assembled, fueled, ready to go

Mission Plan:

- Assemble ship in Kerbin orbit ~300km

- Jool Transfer

- Inside Jool SOI, reconfigure ship, dropping empty tank and engines.

- Tylo lander and Tug, piloted by Jeb

- Main ship with Tug and MultiLander

- Jeb goes to Tylo by way of a Jool aerobrake

- Main ship goes directly to Laythe, aerocapture

- Jeb Lands on Tylo, waits till he is needed

- Bill Lands on Laythe, goes for a swim, returns to ship

- Ship goes on to Vall

- Bob lands on Vall, returns to ship

- Ship goes to high Jool Orbit out near Bop

- Thompwin takes lander to Bop, lands, returns to ship

- Lemwise takes lander to Pol, lands, takes off

- Jeb leaves Tylo, switches to the tug, takes tug back to ship, refuels main ship

- Lemwise takes lander back to ship

- Main ship leaves Jool SOI, transfers back to Kerbin

- Aerocapture at Kerbin

- Lab and Hab return to KSC

- Profit

http://imgur.com/a/Zeest

There are many more details...

Thanks,

Pete

Sullivap: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge!

thanks for the clarification of the main ship fuel consumption! I finish my review here:

I liked how you built up your main ship, with the separated Tylo lander at the back, but sending up in two pieces. And the main ship looks nice with the lights as it goes into deep space.

Splitting up the ship before Jool aerobrake was a good idea, I guess you saved a lot of deltaV. Maybe only the aerobrake timing could be some problem, if they were too close to each other?

Anyway, not putting your main ship around Tylo was a huge weight and fuel saver, that's for sure! So your Tylo solution was really well thought and elegant.

And the rest of the mission was well done too! Thank you for participating!

[jaddbo]

i am working on this challenge, so far i have my main ship and Tylo lander designed.

NOW I HAVE ONE QUESTION! (please read carefully) i used hyper-edit to test the Tylo lander, but i feel that this is not cheating because i have never landed on it or anything like it. if it was in real life, they would simulate it, but if you think about it.... i will not cheat on anything else, and i reverted my launch when testing the Tylo lander. if this would disqualify me, please let me know, i do not want to make an album of photos if i will be immediately disqualified. i have read all the rules of the challenge very carefully.

[Gravaar]

You can test anyway you like BEFORE you start the mission, But when you leave for JOOL no more hyperedit, testing or ship swapping

From the rules

- Unlimited launches are allowed to Kerbin orbit to put the main ship together but this is also part of the challenge and has to be documented well. No hyperedit!

- There's funding for one main ship only so all the crew, lander(s) and other stuff has to go to Jool as one big ship.

- Beside the nice pictures, you have to show pictures AND data (fuel, deltaV, etc) about the key moments of the mission (launch(es) and the optional orbital building, dockings, moving in the Jool System, landings and getting backs, refueling mission, science points, etc).

- No picture and it didn't happen! I will also track back your fuel consumption, refueling and delta-V's and I will need these data from your mission so post pictures where every informative window is open too.

- if you just barely did something (like landing on Tylo with a low TWR, for example) then post more pictures about that heroic part of the mission so I can be sure it really happened as you say! If the doubt is strong I may ask for your craft file to test it.

So once you think you have your ship all planned out (and pre tested) document every launch, all fuel use

Make a really BIG photo album to store EVERY screen shot you take (even quick saves/loads), and then build a Mission report from the best of those pictures

ZIV will check fuel usage......He always does

Edited November 7, 2014 by Gravaar

[Ziv]

Yes, as Gravaar says, thank you!

I don't mind Hyperedit testing before launching the real mission and I couldn't check it anyway.

It makes sense to do that but when I was a first-timer I've never been to the Jool system before, not even with hyperedit, and planned my mission that way... so it was really the first time there for my Kerbals and for me, and it was a really awesome and exciting feeling to see the moons for the first time. And at that time I didn't find any real solution sample on the net about lander-tugs and so, so it was an unforgettable feeling to do that mission.

So I would encourage newbies to take more time on planning and Kerbin/Mun/etc testing only and go there as a real First-time Explorer!

[Meithan]

Hi. I humbly submit the link to the mission report of my Jool 5 Challenge attempt. I landed Jeb on all moons, using a single modular spacecraft assembled in orbit from two launches. Thanks!

[parzr]

Hi. I humbly submit the link to the mission report of my Jool 5 Challenge attempt. I landed Jeb on all moons, using a single modular spacecraft assembled in orbit from two launches. Thanks!

your mission looks cool and is well documented as well as your mission log. Ziv will probably want to see the vessel info. though it does all look plausible.

[Meithan]

your mission looks cool and is well documented as well as your mission log. Ziv will probably want to see the vessel info. though it does all look plausible.

I put the detailed stats of all parts of the spacecraft under a spoiler tag at the end of the Mission Design post. Is that what you mean?

[parzr]

I put the detailed stats of all parts of the spacecraft under a spoiler tag at the end of the Mission Design post. Is that what you mean?

NO, that's what I meant by its plausible and I wanted to be clear that it does look good so don't be discouraged. But Ziv likes to see the fuel before/after descent (top right corner), the vessel weight and thrust if the D-V is not available so he can calculate it.

He's usually willing to work with you. just wanted to give you the heads up so you can do what you can and get your accolades earlier

I've been known to over think stuff too and don't want to come accross as speaking for Ziv. With how well built your mission design post is, he may be satisfied with that.

Edited November 9, 2014 by parzr

[Meithan]

NO, that's what I meant by its plausible and I wanted to be clear that it does look good so don't be discouraged. But Ziv likes to see the fuel before/after descent (top right corner), the vessel weight and thrust if the D-V is not available so he can calculate it.

He's usually willing to work with you. just wanted to give you the heads up so you can do what you can and get your accolades earlier

I've been known to over think stuff too and don't want to come accross as speaking for Ziv. With how well built your mission design post is, he may be satisfied with that.

Darn, I'm afraid I don't have many screenshots with fuel levels on screen. I normally hide the interface to have prettier pics. I should've thought about this. I have all fuel levels registered in a spreadsheet, but of course that's no proof, not like a screenshot is. I'll try to collect as much additional evidence as I can find.

Thanks a lot for the heads up.

[Ziv]

Hey Meithan, yeah, I like to check all the fuel levels for both the main ship and the lander(s) during the mission so I can be sure everything was possible and done as it is seen on the pictures.

Your mission is pretty well documented and I see you uploaded some spreadsheets too so they may be enough, we will see. If your fuel consumption was not too narrow then deltaV stats will be enough.

I don't have time to check it right now but will do it soon!

[hazard-ish]

Okay, Ziv. Here are the links to the videos.

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Also, some things I forgot to mention earlier:

-On the launchpad the ship weighs 1055.81t (I didn't even consider attempting the light-weight challenge! )

-It also has 310 parts.

-The mission was performed in version 0.24.2

-I used no mods at all.

-There was only one launch with no refuelling.

-You will see in the videos but both the Bop and Pol landings were performed using the EVA pack only.

-EDIT: Forgot this one! I didn't use any quicksaves throughout the whole mission. I Had to redo the entire thing due to messing up at the last hurdle several times

Hopefully you have enough information to judge my attempt, if not then I'll do my best to provide more.

Edited November 10, 2014 by hazard-ish
Forgot to mention something

[Meithan]

Hey Meithan, yeah, I like to check all the fuel levels for both the main ship and the lander(s) during the mission so I can be sure everything was possible and done as it is seen on the pictures.

Your mission is pretty well documented and I see you uploaded some spreadsheets too so they may be enough, we will see. If your fuel consumption was not too narrow then deltaV stats will be enough.

I don't have time to check it right now but will do it soon!

Actually, what was posted in the mission report was just a screenshot of the spreadsheet (as it was before the mission), but I just uploaded the full spreadsheet with all data as it was at the end of the mission (and added a link in the mission report).

On the first page you can check general information about the mission and the spacecraft components (including calculated delta-vs). The second page is the mission fuel log, with fuel levels after all important "flight nodes". You can browse the numbers to check they are reasonable. The other pages contain random stuff: a fanfic personal log by Jebediah, a launch checklist (with the first glitch in the mission: some missing fuel lines; I continued the mission anyway, transferring fuel by hand) and a page of misc calculators/data (with some "scratch space" for random calculations).

[Thunderous Echo]

I took an unplanned hiatus, back to working on this challenge.

I'm kinda sad because I'm editing a kinda song behind it.

EDIT:

I would like to announce I have just entered Jool's SOI and I am ready to commence Jebediah's Level!

Edited November 11, 2014 by Thunderous Echo

[davidparks21]

After reading a few more accounts of trips on Xeon engines, I'm not quite sure about this detail... just want to make sure that everyone's aware that you *can* 4x time-warp (alt-warp) through long burns. If anyone's trying to do long ion burns at 1x time-warp, my hat's off to you.

[Thunderous Echo]

I hate it when glitches come and mess everything up.

Kraken attacks: 1

Major floating point errors: 3

Fuel lines migrated to the point of being defunct: 5

And I haven't even landed Pol yet.

EDIT:

Word of advice: do not thrust delimit one engine on your lander to 5.5 and the other to 100 and then forget about it.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Thunderous Echo

[Thunderous Echo]

I have a good feeling about Bop. Getting there was no fuss, and there have been no recent kracken attacks.

[Ziv]

Hi. I humbly submit the link to the mission report of my Jool 5 Challenge attempt. I landed Jeb on all moons, using a single modular spacecraft assembled in orbit from two launches. Thanks!

Meithan: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Level 1!

Your mission report is exceptionally well detailed, that's very nice and will be useful for many others, that's for sure! And writing a computer program to calculate the changes of mass, fuel and deltaV well, that's a whole new level!

And you went with a good old modular lander with only one lander can method, that's cool, it's been a while when somebody went this way. I also liked that you left your main ship in orbit between the moons and used a moon-tug to bring your lander to the moons - that's the most optimal in terms of fuel/weight but people usually put their main ship around the moons which means they move a huge weight and waste a lot of fuel. I guess they are afraid of docking in a Jool orbit - maybe they think it's like docking around Kerbol, which can be really hard for beginners. But around Jool it's very similar to any planet.

I guess maybe you had some hard time docking the lander together sometimes as there were no probe cores on the lander engines, don't you? And there was no fuel consumption tracking on your main ship but as it went only from Kerbin to Jool orbit and back home, that must not be so bad... hmm, bu it refueled the lander-tug many times, hmm... maybe was it close? Do you have any screenshots on this? Anyway, it seems possible for me so I believe it worked well.

I usually don't like shuttles to end the mission but it would be easy for you to put a docking port + parachute module on the ship and I guess you might want to use your main ship later too, so it's all right.

Good job, thank you for the very detailed mission report!

Edited November 14, 2014 by Ziv

[1of6Billion]

Hi all, I 'did' all 5 Jool moons as well. Mission report is here

Yes, I used Mechjeb. Hope you approve my submission. Otherwise, have a nice read

[michaelsteele3]

*After I read the challenge*

HA! I wish!

[sdj64]

I also liked that you left your main ship in orbit between the moons and used a moon-tug to bring your lander to the moons - that's the most optimal in terms of fuel/weight but people usually put their main ship around the moons which means they move a huge weight and waste a lot of fuel. I guess they are afraid of docking in a Jool orbit - maybe they think it's like docking around Kerbol, which can be really hard for beginners. But around Jool it's very similar to any planet.

It's a unique solution for sure but wouldn't it be better to put your mothership in orbit of one of the moons and use a tug to go out from there? You can use Laythe for the aerobraking getting back from the other moons, or Vall for its central location and lower gravity than Laythe or Tylo.

Ziv, what's your stance on sending up a plane or rocket to collect the crew from LKO when the mission is over? If I couldn't, I guess I could use my Laythe plane to ferry the crew down but it only takes 2 kerbals and there are 10 in total. I'd rather not take 5 trips but I could if I have to.