Just need some tips on Eve capable rocket

[lumpman2]

As shown in my sig, I will be attempting to land and return from Eve - something I've never done before. I know, crazy idea. But I haven't started yet, so I have some time to prepare. All I need are some general rules of thumb when attempting to make an Eve return-capable rocket. I know that I'll need about 11+ km/s of delta-v and I will of course be docking in orbit, but I'll ned some advice as to how to create a not-horribly-huge rocket while still getting the most dV possible.

[Hodo]

The biggest thing is, Eve has a massively thick atmosphere and has strong gravity, so you will need quite a bit of d/V to even consider getting back into orbit.

[lumpman2]

I've stated that I already realize I'll need boatloads of dV to get up there, but I really don't know how to make a rocket like that.

[Moar Boosters]

If you want a minimalist rocket, the easiest way to go is to use a probe core and a chair instead of a pod. They weight less so require a much smaller rocket.

The other main thing would be to build a lander with wheels. The highest peaks on Eve only require about 8-9000 dv to take off from, but they're too small for a precision landing, so the easiest way to use them is land nearby and then drive the lander to the top.

3rd thing would be to attach all your parachutes and landing gear/wheels onto decouplers, so you get rid of them all as you start your ascent.

Use asparagus.

[lumpman2]

So should I use smaller tanks instead of going big and just use a lot of asparagus? I'm not Scott Manley so I'm not exactly the best at precise ascents.

[Murph]

It's not just dV that you need in the return stage, but also sufficient TWR to counter the gravity. The TWR needs to be fairly finely balanced  sufficient to overcome the extra gravity, but not so much that you go into chronic flaming atmospheric drag on the way up (since that's horribly inefficient). So, that likely rules out the LV-Ns as a way to get lots of dV, for example.

[lumpman2]

I wouldn't think of using something with an Isp of 220

So engines like the tiny orange ones or LV909s? Or should I use a few aerospikes as well?

[Death Engineering]

Aerospikes are your friend for Eve. Also, double up on the landing legs since the latest update made the even the heaviest legs quite soft.

[Traches]

Aerospikes are your friend for Eve. Also, double up on the landing legs since the latest update made the even the heaviest legs quite soft.

Or just use I-beams.

I'm lazy, so I'm gonna quote a couple posts I made in a similar thread a couple days ago:

A manned eve return mission is one of the hardest things to do in the game. You need about 12,000 m/s delta V to get to orbit from sea level, but only around 7,500 to make it from the tallest mountain. (For comparison, you need about 4,500 to get into orbit from kerbin.)

Basically, asparagus it all to hell, use aerospikes, and keep the payload as light as possible. One trick that many people use is instead of sending down a whole command pod, just send down a single kerbal on a chair, sitting on top of the smallest probe core. For my eve lander, the final stage was just the second smallest 1.25m tank and a rockomax 48-7s, with some batteries, a probe core, couple solar panels, and a kerbal. It was god for about 4,000 m/s.

That's what my lander looked like; managed to land it with completely full tanks at a good altitude.

And that's the last stage that I was talking about.

[lumpman2]

Ok, I'll try using aerospikes for most of the engines except for the last - but I don't have time to test right now since KSP wouldn't really agree with uploading a video at the same time AND skype.

[Sirine]

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/60331-Eve-Misison-Report-Live-update-with-persistent-file-along-the-way

Video and save file available for your testing purposes.

[technion]

I only just completed this.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/60438-Return-mission-from-Eve-GROUND-LEVEL

You seem to have a make a choice. Plan on getting a high altitude, which means tonnes of work in space trying to plan it, or, as in my case, build even bigger until it an take off from anywhere.

[lumpman2]

Thanks all of you for the advice on what I should do and I feel like I know what I should be looking for when I'm testing rockets.