[1.12.x] Ship Manifest (Crew, Science, & Resources) - v 6.0.8.0 - 28 Apr 23

[curiousepic]

Has anyone had issues with Kerbal cloning, either with this mod or otherwise? I'm having a very Moon moment here...

[Papa_Joe]

Has anyone had issues with Kerbal cloning, either with this mod or otherwise? I'm having a very Moon moment here...

Not sure what you mean by kerbal cloning...

[curiousepic]

After rotating my Minmus Station crew, I realized I had 4 Kerbals showing up in the crew instead of the 3 that should be. After checking the departing capsule for a missing member, I went back and realized there were two Kerbals with the same name in different parts of the ship!

They can even both go EVA and have a fight to the death. There can only be one Hudford Kerman.

[Papa_Joe]

After rotating my Minmus Station crew, I realized I had 4 Kerbals showing up in the crew instead of the 3 that should be. After checking the departing capsule for a missing member, I went back and realized there were two Kerbals with the same name in different parts of the ship!

They can even both go EVA and have a fight to the death. There can only be one Hudford Kerman.

what version of SM are you using? and was it a stock transfer that you performed?

[Kerbart]

I vaguely remember doing something stupid once, like put a Kerbal in a command seat and then getting them on board through Manifest (this was many versions ago). I also ended up with Kloned Kerbals. The problem solved itself because the klones invited their friend, good ole' Kraken, to the station as well.

[curiousepic]

what version of SM are you using? and was it a stock transfer that you performed?

I've been up to date via CKAN since 1.0 and the actual transfer was a few days ago and I don't remember it clearly, but I think it's likely that I used a mix of stock transfer and SM transfers.

I vaguely remember doing something stupid once, like put a Kerbal in a command seat and then getting them on board through Manifest (this was many versions ago). I also ended up with Kloned Kerbals. The problem solved itself because the klones invited their friend, good ole' Kraken, to the station as well.

Yeah, I'm afraid the Kraken has found this station as well - after undocking a return capsule, its docking ring begins to shoot off and its parachutes kind of disassociate from it D:

[Papa_Joe]

I've been up to date via CKAN since 1.0 and the actual transfer was a few days ago and I don't remember it clearly, but I think it's likely that I used a mix of stock transfer and SM transfers.

Yeah, I'm afraid the Kraken has found this station as well - after undocking a return capsule, its docking ring begins to shoot off and its parachutes kind of disassociate from it D:

Interesting, back several pages ago, there was a report where some station parts that were not up to dat that seemed to exhibit this behavior. Not sure if it is related. I've not been able to duplicate the issue, so I will pay attention, and see if it crops up...

Link to discussion: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/62270-1-0-2-Ship-Manifest-%28Crew-Science-Resources%29-v-4-2-0-2-05-May-15?p=1851819&viewfull=1#post1851819

Also a note: It seems it may be related to the stock override in SM. if you can duplicate the issue, try turning off the override in settings to see if the issue goes away... may give me a starting point if SM is causing it.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Papa_Joe

[futrtrubl]

I've been up to date via CKAN since 1.0 and the actual transfer was a few days ago and I don't remember it clearly, but I think it's likely that I used a mix of stock transfer and SM transfers.

Yeah, I'm afraid the Kraken has found this station as well - after undocking a return capsule, its docking ring begins to shoot off and its parachutes kind of disassociate from it D:

Two things; Don't rely on CKAN to keep you up to date especially if you find a bug, and don't say your mod is "current", "newest", "latest" or "up to date". Find out the actual version of your mod. This isn't a real time conversation so don't make people have to try figure out what your current version is. Also, a significant fraction of those people that say they have the latest then find out they don't. Looking for yourself can save everyone a lot of time.

[Smurfalot]

I found a kerbalina to recruit with 0 stupidity and 0 courage, but she is a pilot...how do I use this mod to change her to a scientist or engineer?

[curiousepic]

Interesting, back several pages ago, there was a report where some station parts that were not up to dat that seemed to exhibit this behavior. Not sure if it is related. I've not been able to duplicate the issue, so I will pay attention, and see if it crops up...

Link to discussion: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/62270-1-0-2-Ship-Manifest-%28Crew-Science-Resources%29-v-4-2-0-2-05-May-15?p=1851819&viewfull=1#post1851819

Hmm, I'm not getting those crew roster errors at the station, or any other Kerbal-related errors.

Also a note: It seems it may be related to the stock override in SM. if you can duplicate the issue, try turning off the override in settings to see if the issue goes away... may give me a starting point if SM is causing it.

I'll work on reproing it.

Two things; Don't rely on CKAN to keep you up to date especially if you find a bug, and don't say your mod is "current", "newest", "latest" or "up to date". Find out the actual version of your mod. This isn't a real time conversation so don't make people have to try figure out what your current version is. Also, a significant fraction of those people that say they have the latest then find out they don't. Looking for yourself can save everyone a lot of time.

Well, by "up to date via CKAN", I meant whatever version CKAN was installing over the past couple weeks, not claiming I had the latest version available at the time. Because the issue was triggered by something that happened in the past, I didn't specify a version because I don't know what version it was then. It is currently 4.2.0.2.

[Papa_Joe]

I found a kerbalina to recruit with 0 stupidity and 0 courage, but she is a pilot...how do I use this mod to change her to a scientist or engineer?

Go here and check out my wiki: https://github.com/PapaJoesSoup/ShipManifest/wiki/1.5---Roster-Window

your kerbalina must be in available stats to be edited (cannot be in a current flight).

Also, read this one about changing professions: https://github.com/PapaJoesSoup/ShipManifest/wiki/1.4.5-Config-Tab

Edit:

I noticed you posted over in KerbalStats. If you are using KerbalStats, my profession management will conflict. I do plan on supporting KerbalStats with the release of Roster Manager. At that time I will be removing the Roster features in SM. All Roster window features that exist in SM will be ported over, and greatly expanded on. You will not lose anything, and can still perform a revert of your game save if you begin to use KarbalStats after using the profession features of SM.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Papa_Joe

[Papa_Joe]

Hmm, I'm not getting those crew roster errors at the station, or any other Kerbal-related errors.

I'll work on reproing it.

Well, by "up to date via CKAN", I meant whatever version CKAN was installing over the past couple weeks, not claiming I had the latest version available at the time. Because the issue was triggered by something that happened in the past, I didn't specify a version because I don't know what version it was then. It is currently 4.2.0.2.

CKAN was incorrectly reporting version 4.1.4.4 for awhile. It recently updated to show 4.2.0.2. So I wonder if you had a version where there were issues with kerbal moves via stock transfers. I made some changes based on feedback between 4.1.4.4 and 4.2 after 1.0 came out. While 4.1.4.4 was working under KSP 1.0, I wonder if it had latent issues...

So, I'll be interested in seeing if you can reproduce while using 4.2.0.2.

[curiousepic]

Ok, I was able to reproduce it pretty simply at a different station, with Override Stock Transfer disabled. Just initiate a transfer via SM, then initiate the same transfer via the stock method. I'm guessing this is what happened initially, and then some time after it, I enabled the override and things acted properly since then.

It also summoned the Kraken in the same manner - by undocking the capsule with one of the clones on board and the other left at the station. The capsule then pulls a "my people need me!"

Now I need to figure out a way to cure this station somehow...

Edited May 11, 2015 by curiousepic

[Papa_Joe]

Ok, I was able to reproduce it pretty simply at a different station, with Override Stock Transfer disabled. Just initiate a transfer via SM, then initiate the same transfer via the stock method. I'm guessing this is what happened initially, and then some time after it, I enabled the override and things acted properly since then.

It also summoned the Kraken in the same manner - by undocking the capsule with one of the clones on board and the other left at the station. The capsule then pulls a "my people need me!"

Now I need to figure out a way to cure this station somehow...

Ok, so I understand correctly,

1. Xfer Crewmember from one part to another part using SM. CLS installed and enabled or disabled or not installed?

2. Xfer Crewmember via stock tweakable with Override Stock transfer Off. Same direction? If so this indicates the first xfer did not go as planned.... if in the reverse direction, then kerbal moved from original destination part back to original source part?

3. Undocking causes the "ghost" kerbal to appear, or is it there prior to undocking?

Thanks for any clarification you can provide.

[curiousepic]

Ok, so I understand correctly,

1. Xfer Crewmember from one part to another part using SM. CLS installed and enabled or disabled or not installed?

2. Xfer Crewmember via stock tweakable with Override Stock transfer Off. Same direction? If so this indicates the first xfer did not go as planned.... if in the reverse direction, then kerbal moved from original destination part back to original source part?

3. Undocking causes the "ghost" kerbal to appear, or is it there prior to undocking?

Thanks for any clarification you can provide.

CLS not installed.

Stock Transfer Override off.

Realism mode on.

Here are what I believe to be reliable repro steps:

1. Begin SM transfer to another part ("hab").

2. While the transfer is occurring, click on hatch of origin part ("capsule") and click Transfer on the same Kerbal.

3. Click the hab to choose the same destination.

4. The stock transfer completes.

5. Once the SM transfer completes, the same Kerbal will exist both in the destination hab and the capsule.

That said, I think my actual case had a difference that may be relevant, so I will list what I believed actually happened here:

Station exists with a Hab with 2 of 4 Kerbals, a Lab with 1 of 2 Kerbals, some other modules with seats, and a docked Capsule with 3 of 3 recently arrived Kerbals.

1. Began SM transfer of Julda Kerman from the Capsule to the Lab

2. During SM transfer, clicked on Capsule hatch, and on Julda's Transfer button

3. Clicked the Lab as destination

4. Recieved "Lab is Full, cannot transfer" message

5. Clicked Hab as destination

6. Stock transfer complete, Julda now in Hab

7. SM transfer complete, clone Julda now in Lab

I'll try again to track down if the Full Lab aspect is required to repro or not.

The Kraken issue which I think is only a side effect of the cloning occurs if I move one of the Juldas to the capsule, and the undock the capsule. Roll D100 and choose a result from Chaos Magic chart to determine capsule's behavior.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, the fact that the destination became full is relevant. Here are actual repro steps:

1. Have a Lab with one Kerbal already in it

2. SM transfer a new Kerbal to the Lab

3. Stock transfer the same Kerbal to the Lab

4. Stock transfer completes

5. SM transfer completes and clone appears in the origin part, as if it was returning because the destination was found to be full. Or, you know, saw their clone and was like nope.

Edited May 11, 2015 by curiousepic

[Smurfalot]

Go here and check out my wiki: https://github.com/PapaJoesSoup/ShipManifest/wiki/1.5---Roster-Window

your kerbalina must be in available stats to be edited (cannot be in a current flight).

Also, read this one about changing professions: https://github.com/PapaJoesSoup/ShipManifest/wiki/1.4.5-Config-Tab

Edit:

I noticed you posted over in KerbalStats. If you are using KerbalStats, my profession management will conflict. I do plan on supporting KerbalStats with the release of Roster Manager. At that time I will be removing the Roster features in SM. All Roster window features that exist in SM will be ported over, and greatly expanded on. You will not lose anything, and can still perform a revert of your game save if you begin to use KarbalStats after using the profession features of SM.

Thank you very much for pointing me in the right direction. As for KerbalStats, I am thinking about uninstalling as it has no visible interface, benefit or use.

- - - Updated - - -

It would be really cool to add some sort of DnD style multiclassing feature in Roster manager so you can level up more than one profession. By the description the way the professions work with the name hash, I am guessing this is not going to happen any time soon, but it would be really cool.

[Papa_Joe]

CLS not installed.

Stock Transfer Override off.

Realism mode on.

Here are what I believe to be reliable repro steps:

1. Begin SM transfer to another part ("hab").

2. While the transfer is occurring, click on hatch of origin part ("capsule") and click Transfer on the same Kerbal.

3. Click the hab to choose the same destination.

4. The stock transfer completes.

5. Once the SM transfer completes, the same Kerbal will exist both in the destination hab and the capsule.

That said, I think my actual case had a difference that may be relevant, so I will list what I believed actually happened here:

Station exists with a Hab with 2 of 4 Kerbals, a Lab with 1 of 2 Kerbals, some other modules with seats, and a docked Capsule with 3 of 3 recently arrived Kerbals.

1. Began SM transfer of Julda Kerman from the Capsule to the Lab

2. During SM transfer, clicked on Capsule hatch, and on Julda's Transfer button

3. Clicked the Lab as destination

4. Recieved "Lab is Full, cannot transfer" message

5. Clicked Hab as destination

6. Stock transfer complete, Julda now in Hab

7. SM transfer complete, clone Julda now in Lab

I'll try again to track down if the Full Lab aspect is required to repro or not.

The Kraken issue which I think is only a side effect of the cloning occurs if I move one of the Juldas to the capsule, and the undock the capsule. Roll D100 and choose a result from Chaos Magic chart to determine capsule's behavior.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, the fact that the destination became full is relevant. Here are actual repro steps:

1. Have a Lab with one Kerbal already in it

2. SM transfer a new Kerbal to the Lab

3. Stock transfer the same Kerbal to the Lab

4. Stock transfer completes

5. SM transfer completes and clone appears in the origin part, as if it was returning because the destination was found to be full. Or, you know, saw their clone and was like nope.

Very interesting. Based on what you are saying, you are performing a stock transfer in the midst of an SM transfer. Is that correct?

If so, then I can see where the problem is, as I do not interfere with the stock transfer when the Override switch is off. However, I can see that I will need to, as the potential for issues is there. I can resolve this by preventing a stock transfer during the SM transfer process. I set a flag when the SM transfer begins, (as I do when a stock transfer begins with override on). So I can check for an active transfer in progress and prevent the transfer from occurring. With realism off, the problem would not occur, as the SM Transfer would be immediate.

Thank you very much for pointing me in the right direction. As for KerbalStats, I am thinking about uninstalling as it has no visible interface, benefit or use.

- - - Updated - - -

It would be really cool to add some sort of DnD style multiclassing feature in Roster manager so you can level up more than one profession. By the description the way the professions work with the name hash, I am guessing this is not going to happen any time soon, but it would be really cool.

No problem. I knew with the release of KSP 1.0 and the increase in my downloads that a wiki would now be important. It has already saved me a LOT of typing .

As for KerbalStats, I understand where you are at. It really is an APi for other modders to use, much like Connected Living Space, Rasterpropmonitor and some other fine extension mods out there. Not really useful for the end user, but can really save other modders some time and provide a good framework to store data and provide mod interoperability..

I intend to use Kerbalstats as part of Roster Manager. It also offers some tools and features that may actually allow me to create the feature you are describing. It will take some work for me to figure out a way to "manage" it, but others have expressed an interest in multi classing, especially if you think about it, in real life, an engineer can also be a scientist, or a pilot... Just need a way to store the data, and then select the profession choice. May add a cost for adding multi class (cor career) and that kind of thing...

I like it. It may be doable.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Papa_Joe

[curiousepic]

Very interesting. Based on what you are saying, you are performing a stock transfer in the midst of an SM transfer. Is that correct?

If so, then I can see where the problem is, as I do not interfere with the stock transfer when the Override switch is off. However, I can see that I will need to, as the potential for issues is there. I can resolve this by preventing a stock transfer during the SM transfer process. I set a flag when the SM transfer begins, (as I do when a stock transfer begins with override on). So I can check for an active transfer in progress and prevent the transfer from occurring. With realism off, the problem would not occur, as the SM Transfer would be immediate.

Sounds right! Glad to help.

[Papa_Joe]

Sounds right! Glad to help.

Ok, I have a fix in place. Will be in the next release.

[Smurfalot]

Found a minor bug/exploit. If you load one type of kerbal, say for example a pilot in the VAB and change that pilot out for a scientist on the launch pad using SM you can still use the pilot's ability to SAS until you change scenes away from the craft and come back.

E.g, You can go to the launchpad with Jeb and switch to Bob, but still use Jeb's piloting skill to get into orbit.

[curiousepic]

Found a minor bug/exploit. If you load one type of kerbal, say for example a pilot in the VAB and change that pilot out for a scientist on the launch pad using SM you can still use the pilot's ability to SAS until you change scenes away from the craft and come back.

E.g, You can go to the launchpad with Jeb and switch to Bob, but still use Jeb's piloting skill to get into orbit.

Ahh, I was getting this too. Are you sure it's SM causing it? I think I remember also having random SAS controls on probe body only craft...

[Smurfalot]

Ahh, I was getting this too. Are you sure it's SM causing it? I think I remember also having random SAS controls on probe body only craft...

Apparently it loads the profession at the start of a scene change. It seems to be most noticable when switching from a non-pilot to a pilot-- If you scene change away from the craft and come back it no longer treats a scientist/engineer as a pilot and if you switch to a pilot...no SAS.

[Papa_Joe]

Apparently it loads the profession at the start of a scene change. It seems to be most noticable when switching from a non-pilot to a pilot-- If you scene change away from the craft and come back it no longer treats a scientist/engineer as a pilot and if you switch to a pilot...no SAS.

Interesting. Let me look at my cleanup code for removing and adding kerbals. I know I do an onVesselChange event (this should clean up stuff like that) for Crew transfers, but maybe I'm not doing it for activities in pre-flight. Thanks for describing it for me.

Edit: I found that the Remove Kerbal method did not trigger the onVesselChange event. However, I'm having difficulting testing. Forgive my ignorance, but I'm a sandbox player, so I'm not sure if I understand the issue correctly.

When you say no SAS, are you referring to no control of the vessel on launch, or no ability to use SAS ([f] key), or what? I'm in sandbox, and it seems with any combination of crew, I can control the vessel. I do not have a separate SAS part installed (using stock KerbalX vessel).. Do I need to be in career mode?

Can you enlighten me?

Edited May 12, 2015 by Papa_Joe

[Smurfalot]

Interesting. Let me look at my cleanup code for removing and adding kerbals. I know I do an onVesselChange event (this should clean up stuff like that) for Crew transfers, but maybe I'm not doing it for activities in pre-flight. Thanks for describing it for me.

Edit: I found that the Remove Kerbal method did not trigger the onVesselChange event. However, I'm having difficulting testing. Forgive my ignorance, but I'm a sandbox player, so I'm not sure if I understand the issue correctly.

When you say no SAS, are you referring to no control of the vessel on launch, or no ability to use SAS ([f] key), or what? I'm in sandbox, and it seems with any combination of crew, I can control the vessel. I do not have a separate SAS part installed (using stock KerbalX vessel).. Do I need to be in career mode?

Can you enlighten me?

I usually play sandbox, but I have been trying out career mode just to see what it is like now that it is finished. So am new to this as well. Each profession has its own benefit, Scientists get a bonus % on science collected and can process in field labs, engineers can repair things in EVA (and use KIS tools) and pilots get the ability to stabilize a craft (T or F key) they are flying without the need for an SAS part to be on the vessel. By your description it sounds like you have at least 1 pilot kerbal on board. Try it just Bob or Bill and no SAS parts and see what happens.

Also while I am thinking about it. This came up in a different thread, for roster manager can you add the ability to uncreate/permakill an unwanted kerbal? Several people have mentioned the need to get rid of some of the really stupid ones without turning on permadeath.

[Papa_Joe]

I usually play sandbox, but I have been trying out career mode just to see what it is like now that it is finished. So am new to this as well. Each profession has its own benefit, Scientists get a bonus % on science collected and can process in field labs, engineers can repair things in EVA (and use KIS tools) and pilots get the ability to stabilize a craft (T or F key) they are flying without the need for an SAS part to be on the vessel. By your description it sounds like you have at least 1 pilot kerbal on board. Try it just Bob or Bill and no SAS parts and see what happens.

Also while I am thinking about it. This came up in a different thread, for roster manager can you add the ability to uncreate/permakill an unwanted kerbal? Several people have mentioned the need to get rid of some of the really stupid ones without turning on permadeath.

Ok, so I need to test in a career mode game to determine if my fix works. I've been attempting to test in Sandbox. I was loading crew from the VAB, so there is a scene change before I get to preflight...

As for the permadeath. That should be doable. Once gone from the game save, they are gone...

Thanks for the feedback!