3D Mouse Support in 0.23???

[capran]

So I was looking at http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/240-KSP-0-23-Is-Live%21 and they mention:

* 6-DOF Device Support for Windows:

Few games can benefit from a 6-degrees-of-freedom input device such as the Space Navigator like KSP. Seamless transition/rotation camera control on all scenes, plus pitch-roll-way and linear XYZ inputs in flight control mode, allowing for an unprecedented level of control. This feature is Windows-only for the time being, but we're ready to implement OSX and Linux support as soon as the drivers become available.

I never heard of "the Space Navigator", so I Googled it, and here it is: http://www.3dconnexion.com/products/spacenavigator.html

I looked at their site and some videos on Youtube, and it looks and sounds awesome! It's $99 so not really an impulse buy for me. But I wanted to know if other people have used this with KSP and what their experiences with it were. Or if you've used other brands of such devices, please let me know!

I've tried using my wireless XBOX 360 controller for KSP, but I always end up putting it aside and going back to keyboard and mouse.

[Lord Nihilus]

Just got mine today, and wow! This will certainly require a few hours training to use effectively, first time user and all that

I have about an hour ingame with it, and it is awesome in VAB! Not tried it much as flight controller yet, but it seems to be very decent for docking control. As I said, not tried it a lot yet, but with some tweaks in settings and a few hours to get to know this device, I'd definitely recommend this.

It is an expensive piece of hardware, so weigh your needs before purchase.

[capran]

Just got mine today, and wow! This will certainly require a few hours training to use effectively, first time user and all that

I have about an hour ingame with it, and it is awesome in VAB! Not tried it much as flight controller yet, but it seems to be very decent for docking control. As I said, not tried it a lot yet, but with some tweaks in settings and a few hours to get to know this device, I'd definitely recommend this.

It is an expensive piece of hardware, so weigh your needs before purchase.

Cool! Keep us posted! Can you make a video?

[RocketKen]

Just got mine today, and wow! This will certainly require a few hours training to use effectively, first time user and all that

I have about an hour ingame with it, and it is awesome in VAB! Not tried it much as flight controller yet, but it seems to be very decent for docking control. As I said, not tried it a lot yet, but with some tweaks in settings and a few hours to get to know this device, I'd definitely recommend this.

It is an expensive piece of hardware, so weigh your needs before purchase.

I have a SpaceNavigator (laptop version) which I haven't been able to make work with KSP yet. The device itself is fine, I use it with SolidWorks. When I in Settings, go to the Input tab and attempt to assign axis functions, it doesn't seem to sense my making the appropriate movements. I never get a button to accept assignment; only the Clear and Cancel buttons are available.

Same behavior on the two computers I run KSP 0.23 on, a WinSP32 desktop, and a Vista64 laptop.

Any advice? I feel like I'm missing something.

[Tank Buddy]

Seems cool, but I'm not in the mood to spend money. I don't have the motivation to spend so much on input devices either. #keyboard from 2002 (I kid you not)

[Lord Nihilus]

I have a SpaceNavigator (laptop version) which I haven't been able to make work with KSP yet. The device itself is fine, I use it with SolidWorks. When I in Settings, go to the Input tab and attempt to assign axis functions, it doesn't seem to sense my making the appropriate movements. I never get a button to accept assignment; only the Clear and Cancel buttons are available.

Same behavior on the two computers I run KSP 0.23 on, a WinSP32 desktop, and a Vista64 laptop.

Any advice? I feel like I'm missing something.

Under Input tab go to "Other" and there you see 6-dof device. I have not had the time to explore settings and such yet, although I do believe I read somewhere that it won't work with beta drivers (if you are using that).

[RocketKen]

Under Input tab go to "Other" and there you see 6-dof device. I have not had the time to explore settings and such yet, although I do believe I read somewhere that it won't work with beta drivers (if you are using that).

Well, I got the SpaceNavigator working. I had seen a reference to switching between it controlling the Camera View or the NavBall by hitting the ScrollLock key. I went looking for a ScrollLock Key when I noticed that the SpaceNavigator device was working for the Camera View.

It turned out that my keyboard HAS NO stinkin' ScrollLock Key. (I was like when Homer Simpson was trying to follow directions to use a computer, and read, "Hit Any Key". "Doh! Where's the ANY key!?")

In that "Other" tab you mentioned, there is an option to assign the ScrollLock key function to another key, which I did. I could then use the SpaceNavigator on the NavBall. :-) But, I still can't assign axis's myself. It appears that the game developers set up the SpaceNavigator inputs for what would work best for Aircraft flying rather than Rocket flying. Hopefully, we'll get some ability to change axis assignments in a patch.

I'm finding that I'm still using the WASD keys for big movements, but loving being able to make small fine movements with the SpaceNavigator. Trying to do that with quick key presses was aggravating.

I wasn't using any Beta drivers for the SpaceNavigator, just the latest driver from the 3dConnexion website. It just natively works in KSP 0.23; a little too natively, with the inability to modify the axii.

[zinfinion]

Just got my SpaceNavigator today and worked out all the axis assignments.

As mentioned, by default the 3Dconnexion software (not KSP) has the X axis set to roll (as in airplanes) and the twist axis set to yaw (as most PC flight sticks behave). These two axes can be swapped, and it makes a world of difference (even if it is not the NASA way). And if you are perfectly OK with flight style controls, and don't want to mess with the axes, the rest of the post can pretty much be skipped.

Make sure to create a profile for the ksp.exe (easiest while the game is running [Alt-Tab out, obviously]) and then set the X axis to Spin and the twist axis to Roll. You may have to click the dropdown where it says 3D Mouse and pick Joystick or 2D Mouse and then switch back to 3D Mouse and assign the axis. The settings seem to stick a bit...

Anyways, set both Spin and Roll to Reverse and you should be set. Make sure to test it out on a capsule in a prograde facing with blue up and brown down on the navball. I was testing on a landercan in retrograde orientation and got extremely confused for a bit. So don't do that.

Also, I found it helpful to set one button to Rotations On/Off and the other to Dominant On/Off. Good for docking especially.

The only issue I ran into is that EVAs act up rather badly. The analog control provides far too much impulse and makes for some odd graphical anomalies as well.

Other than that it's pretty much flawless. Just a matter of getting accustomed to the device and tweaking the speed and threshold settings. I have the threshold for Yaw at 50 and Roll at 25.

One gotcha, do be sure to reboot after the initial driver install. I didn't and had some serious wonkiness.

[RocketKen]

Zinfinion, extremely detailed and helpful advice. Thanks!

[toric5]

anyone tried it on a mac yet?

[RocketKen]

Hmm, my 3dConnexion Properties box has many fewer options than yours, Zinfinion. I'll have to explore further.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86935592/SpaceNavigatorPropertiesKSP.JPG

[capran]

I found one for $50 on eBay, going to give it a try!

[zinfinion]

anyone tried it on a mac yet?

Windows only according to the .23 notes, though it sounds as if they plan on adding Mac/Linux support.

Hmm, my 3dConnexion Properties box has many fewer options than yours, Zinfinion. I'll have to explore further.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86935592/SpaceNavigatorPropertiesKSP.JPG

I'm using the 3DxWare 10 Beta from October 10 2013.

32-Bit: http://www.3dconnexion.com/supported-software/3dxlabs/3dxlabsapp.html?tx_sugar3dxsoftware_pi1[app_id]=6bf88bfb-4d3c-7c94-b77b-51c87573d793

64-Bit: http://www.3dconnexion.com/supported-software/3dxlabs/3dxlabsapp.html?tx_sugar3dxsoftware_pi1[app_id]=e657f516-d99e-f54c-e24d-51c875c0b7e4

Both support XP/Vista/7.

Edited December 22, 2013 by zinfinion
Links got poorly parsed. Fixed now.

[capran]

So I got the Space Navigator in the mail yesterday. But I couldn't get the link Zinfinion posted to work on my PC (Win 8 x64) except in the "compatibility mode", which installed, but then the mouse didn't work. I had to use the regular (not beta) software from their site. I'm still not used to the device yet though, need to play around more with the configuration both in the 3dconnexion control app and within KSP (Settings, Input, Other, 6DOF devices). It's not quite as good as a flightstick for flying, but it is neat to use in the SPH/VAB for changing the camera angle.

I haven't figured out if you can use it to move objects in 3D space yet within the SPH/VAB. But when in staging/docking mode, if you hit scroll lock you can choose between camera and flight operations.

[flightmaster]

It is an expensive piece of hardware, so weigh your needs before purchase.

Is it any good for normal day-to-day usage of your PC? Obviously I'd use it for KSP but can it be used as a regular mouse too?

[Lord Nihilus]

I use it exclusively for ksp

Although I have tried it once in google earth

And to actually answer your question (that somehow eluded me), no, you cannot use it as a regular mouse. (At least as far as I know.)

Edited December 28, 2013 by Lord Nihilus
getting it right ;)

[flightmaster]

I use it exclusively for ksp

And, how is it? Mind blowingly game-changing? Or just pretty cool? Or not-worth the investment?

[Lord Nihilus]

If you have cash to burn, I see no reason not to get one. I will never play KSP without it again. Game changer? No, probably not.

[flightmaster]

Cool, thanks for the info. Hopefully we'll get a video from someone soon

[DailyFrankPeter]

The only issue I ran into is that EVAs act up rather badly. The analog control provides far too much impulse and makes for some odd graphical anomalies as well.

Bump to that^ if it hasn't been addressed already.

Thanks, Zinfinion, I didn't realise once can swap axes in the driver software.

EDIT: Oh yeas, and kudos to the dev team for coming up with the idea to actually fly spacecraft with 6DOF mice, and not just control the camera!!!

[Redwizard000]

Is it any good for normal day-to-day usage of your PC? Obviously I'd use it for KSP but can it be used as a regular mouse too?

No, it only works in programs that are designed to use it. I have one, I use it a lot in Lightwave3D. It also works in AutoCAD, Photoshop and a couple other programs. It isn't really a toy, it is designed to be used with 3D design software.

You can not use it as a regular mouse, and even if there is a way to use it like a regular mouse somehow, I cant see why you would want to.

It works pretty well in KSP, especially while using RCS. That is what I use mine for.

This is what it looks like, with a soda can next to it for size reference: http://tinypic.com/r/2cpxf9d/8

[DailyFrankPeter]

Zinfinion, which version of the drivers does the screenshot show? I can't see the tilt/roll/spin in my settings.

[Tyko]

Apologies for the necro, but has 3D Spacemouse support been worked out? sounds like it was being played with back in Beta

[Snark]

Given the ancient nature of the thread, much of what's in here applies only to older versions of the game and is no longer relevant.  Locking to prevent further confusion.  If you're interested in talking about 6DOF support in KSP, please spin up a new thread.

FWIW, I've got a 3DConnexion controller, and it works just fine in KSP.  Can use it to control camera, and/or flight control.  In my experience, using it for flight control is too awkward for convenience (I have trouble mentally mapping what I see on the screen to how I move the thing)-- I never do it, the keyboard just works better for me.  However, it's great for controlling camera motion, both in the editor and in flight.