[1.8+] Real Fuels

[Hypercore]

Version: 1.10.1

Issue: Fuel tanks and engines unusable except for a few.

Details: I've been playing on real fuels with 1.10.0 before, and It worked fine. After I updated, I also updated all my mods, installed the dependencies and everything correctly, but now the fuel tank tweakablnes are gone, I cannot select fuel mixtures, and stock/modded tanks and engines does not show up in and dv calculators(including stock). Tried reinstalling 3 times, new savegames, still no solution found. All help appreciated!

Edited September 29, 2020 by Hypercore
Typos！

[MissMolly]

hello 

Is there a work file for 1.9.1? As for the one on Ckan and the one no Github both copy's are throwing an error.  Pic

 

Thanks

 

 

Edit 

I did run the game with a clean game file and well it works, so maybe its bug or something.

Edited November 9, 2020 by MissMolly

[Xt007]

15 hours ago, MissMolly said:

hello 

Is there a work file for 1.9.1? As for the one on Ckan and the one no Github both copy's are throwing an error.  Pic

 

Thanks

 

 

Edit 

I did run the game with a clean game file and well it works, so maybe its bug or something.

Ignore it, it works

[bigyihsuan]

The link to TaranisEleu's guide is broken, found a working link after digging around old threads:

 

[Pointblank66]

I seem to have a problem getting Real Fuels to work properly and I'm not sure if it is RF Stock or just RF. 
When I activate a stage with only the engine in it the engine does not start bc of a "vapor in fuelline warning". But when the engine is started at the same time it is being decoupled or being started together with SRB the problem doesn't happen.
In the Google drive link(see below), Annotation 1 show a stage where both the engine and SRB is started at the same time, so no problem there.  HOWEVER, in annotation 2, 3 and 4, where the engine is started after the SRBs are burned out, the problem does happen instantly. The engine icon goes red as soon the SRBs burn out. You can also see the staging order in those annotations.
I also added a KSP.log file if need.
Annotation 5 shows the mods I have installed so far. The only thing that is not listed is RSSVE bc that is installed manually.

Note that I have also tried a clean installment of KSP 1.8.1 multiple times but the problem still persists.
I'm also gonna post this on the RF stock forum to see if it is an issue on their side

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1fV4RE3nr3W6Rp6h2eJU8tEVOUDWCwcpq?usp=sharing

Edited November 30, 2020 by Pointblank66

[Lumaan]

@Pointblank66 I'm sure it has to be KSP 1.8.0, I get it from RealFuels.version in RealFuels dir.

[Pointblank66]

36 minutes ago, Lumaan said:

@Pointblank66 I'm sure it has to be KSP 1.8.0, I get it from RealFuels.version in RealFuels dir.

what exactly do you mean?

[lurkoholic]

@Pointblank66 That sounds like it's working as intended (see excerpt below from the first page about ullage).  A typical liquid fuel engine won't work if a rocket is in freefall, or a negative Gee situation from atmospheric drag, since the fuel would be floating around the tank instead of pressurized at the bottom of the tank to feed the turbopumps. You can stage ullage motors like Seperatrons to settle the fuel before staging the liquid engine. To turn off ullage requirements, you can change 'simulateUllage = true' to 'simulateUllage = false' near the bottom of  '\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\RealFuels\RealSettings.cfg' using a text editor like Notepad++.

  

On 12/30/2013 at 2:14 AM, NathanKell said:

=========================

ULLAGE AND LIMITED IGNITIONS

RealFuels now integrates limited ignitions and support for ullage and pressure-fed engines.

* To start an engine, you must have the resources it requires to start, and you must have ignitions remaining.

* If ullage is enabled for the engine, and your propellant stability is not "Very Stable", there is a chance that vapor can get in the feed lines and the engine will flame out. You will need to set the throttle to 0 to reset things, then stabilize your propellants. Some forward RCS thrust, or thrust from ullage motors like small SRBs (solids and RCS aren't subject to ullage issues) will do that. Then you can try throttling the engine up again to restart it.

* If the engine is pressure-fed, it requires highly-pressurized tanks (see above for tank descriptions). It will not ignite and run without such tanks.

New parameters in ModuleEnginesRF:

ullage: Whether ullage simulation is enabled. Defaults to false.

pressureFed: Whether the engine is pressure-fed. Defaults to false.

ignitions: the number of ignitions the engine has. Defaults to -1 (unlimited).

IGNITOR_RESOURCE nodes: If you specify limited ignitions, an engine will consume these resources when it ignites, and will fail to ignite (but still use up an ignition) if they are not available. name defines the resource name (like ElectricCharge) and amount defines the amount required (just like EngineIgnitor).

Note that if you used to configure Engine Ignitor per-CONFIG in RF, those configs are still compatible. You only need to worry about the above parameters if you don't have ModuleEngineIgnitor {} nodes in you CONFIG nodes.

 

[rlq]

Hey, so RF is good to go in 1.10, for a RSS/RO/RP1 install?

[OwariTY]

On 12/1/2020 at 12:06 AM, lurkoholic said:

@Pointblank66 That sounds like it's working as intended (see excerpt below from the first page about ullage).  A typical liquid fuel engine won't work if a rocket is in freefall, or a negative Gee situation from atmospheric drag, since the fuel would be floating around the tank instead of pressurized at the bottom of the tank to feed the turbopumps. You can stage ullage motors like Seperatrons to settle the fuel before staging the liquid engine. To turn off ullage requirements, you can change 'simulateUllage = true' to 'simulateUllage = false' near the bottom of  '\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\RealFuels\RealSettings.cfg' using a text editor like Notepad++.

  

 

I am getting the same error using hp tanks with very stable indicator as well. I fixed the problem push down the fuel thanks to ullage engines, but i am not sure if this should be necesary using steel hp tanks.

I dont know if it is an error. In case of afirmative answer of course i will post the log here after work. I just wanna confirm.

Sorry for my english.

Edited December 15, 2020 by OwariTY

[ValiZockt]

@OwariTY, not an error, that’s how it works. Let me explain: Pressure-fed is often misunderstood, pressure-fed means that you won't need any turbo pump machinery. (pumps , pre-burner etc..)

Ullage is the concept of having to settle the fuel at the aft bulkhead. That means the pressurant gas could theoretically also settle on the aft bulkhead (microgravity, everything floats everywhere), so when you open the valves (activate your engines) you're now pushing the pressurant out (instead of your propellant), so you'll have to make sure only fuel is sitting on the aft bulkhead.

[msp307]

 

 

Hello, is it possible to change the density / weight of all fuels?

If so, can someone help me?

[Filigan]

I found an interesting (weird) problem:  Something is off with the DV i get out of my (final?) stages. From the looks of it my engine seems to Burn more fuel then it is supposed to for a certain change in DV.

For example a Satlite i fly just now: The  readout in KER aswell as the readout in Mechjeb tell me i do have 842m/s worth of fuel left,  I set up a maneuver node that requires 400m/s to complete.  But when i fly said maneuver i end up with 306m/s  left in my tanks

In additon, when i launch the rocket via Mechjebs asscent guidance in the final stage (the satelite itself) i start to get a readout that says "Mass is off by X%"   it starts at 0.1% and in the example case it went up to 4.6% in my parking orbit.

The "stock" readout also seem to have some trouble, but there it seems to be even worse. The burn time indicator turns red, telling me the craft has not enough fuel to fly the maneuver at all (but it does)

 

I wonder if real fuels is working correctly, or is it just that those other tools cant calculate the DV correctly with real fuels?

Edited December 31, 2020 by Filigan

[AVaughan]

5 hours ago, Filigan said:

In additon, when i launch the rocket via Mechjebs asscent guidance in the final stage (the satelite itself) i start to get a readout that says "Mass is off by X%"   it starts at 0.1% and in the example case it went up to 4.6% in my parking orbit.

KSP version?  

Mod versions?

If it is on 1.11 then it sound like it might be 

 

[Filigan]

Ah yes sorry, i should not have posted that one last night, since i was exhausted and tipsy at the point, and didnt do any reasearch and/or testing on the problem; i can say for sure that it has nothing to do with Real fuels, since this also occurs when i dont have real fuels installed.    Sorry for that  

Yes it is with KSP 1.11 ,  and most likely the problem you linked to,  

Edited January 1, 2021 by Filigan

[Mossconfig]

Hi, I noticed that there is a file called Realsettings, and there's a variable called "%tankMassMultiplier", and a number, 4.something.

Could I edit that to make tanks weight less? If not, is there something that I could tweak to make it easier on me?

Edited January 15, 2021 by Mossconfig

[Mossconfig]

So, realsettings does change tank mass, but you need to set the option "use realistic mass" to false before your changes happen. that took me an ebarrasing time to figure out.

Spoiler

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nUbZZ39XlWttOyoBwjAGZd-c7vOkXn9q?usp=sharing

So, my hubris might have caught up to me. I am trying to take a swing at running USI on a RSS install, which means I needed to take an axe to lots of config files. I haven’t gone after B8 partswitch or realfuels, so imagine my surprise when my capsules started disappearing. 

 

As far as I can tell, putting any capsule down in the VAB causes this message to show up, and that’s the end of it for capsules without fuel tanks. Thing is, if the capsule has a fuel tank and I try to put it down in empty space, the part disappears. Just “poof” not there anymore. Another weird thing, if I put the part down first it's fine, and if I attach it to an available node it's also fine. Any help?

 

winx64

KSP 1.8.1 x64

[SpacedInvader]

I'm curious if this is still being developed / maintained at all? I'm using it in 1.11 and it appears to be working properly so far, but there is a version incompatibility warning on game launch.

[SpacedInvader]

Thought I'd post this here in case anyone ran into the same problem. I'd downloaded the mod using CKAN and had run into an infuriating issue where decreasing the thrust limiter would proportionately decrease the maximum throttle available . Example given in the following image where thrust is limited to 60% but even at maximum throttle position it would only go up to 35%.

Spoiler

At first I thought it would be RF because it seemed like something RF might have a hand in, but after setting up a test install with just KSP+RF and not getting the same result, I went through my entire gamedata folder looking for the culprit (nearly 200 mods), only to eliminate everything except RF. As it turns out, the version of the plugin that's installed through CKAN is broken somehow while the version from the latest Github release (the one I used for the original test install) is perfectly functional. So, if anyone sees this behavior and has used CKAN to install the mod, I'd recommend the first thing you do is do a fresh install of it from the Git. Also, I'm not sure if this had anything to do with it, but I did the same for RealFuels - Stock engine configs and all of this is on KSP 1.11.

Edited January 26, 2021 by SpacedInvader

[JebIsDeadBaby]

Guys, how do I add fuel to jet packs? I have hydrazine on board, yet when I go to EVA I have a warning about lack of fuel in the jest pack. I can see that the jet pack has a defined fuel tank in VAB, but it has no right-click menu with a button to edit tank's contents. 

[SpacedInvader]

On 1/27/2021 at 2:38 AM, JebIsDeadBaby said:

Guys, how do I add fuel to jet packs? I have hydrazine on board, yet when I go to EVA I have a warning about lack of fuel in the jest pack. I can see that the jet pack has a defined fuel tank in VAB, but it has no right-click menu with a button to edit tank's contents. 

If you're using KSP 1.11 you can't refill EVA tanks from the pod stores anymore (honestly not sure if you ever could) from what I'm reading in the cfgs. You need to put EVA Fuel Cylinders into the pod's inventory and use those.

EDIT: So apparently they included the config flag reinitResourcesOnStoreInVessel in 1.11 which would allow you to refill your EVA propellant when placing your jetpack into the inventory of the pod, but I haven't been able to get it to work since there's literally zero documentation about it...

Edited January 30, 2021 by SpacedInvader

[SpacedInvader]

On a different note, @Starwaster I wonder if you could help me sort out a config I've been beating my head against for 3 days now. I'm trying to integrate the modular tanks from Real Fuels into the Universal Storage 2 parts using the provisions built into the US2 modules for switching components of modules. Here's what I've got so far:

Spoiler

@PART[USAerozineWedge]:NEEDS[RealFuels]:FOR[zzzMyMods]
{
	!MODULE[USFuelSwitch]{}
	
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleFuelTanks

		volume = 65
		utilizationTweakable = true
		type = Default
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = USModuleSwitch
		SwitchID = 0
		TargetModule = ModuleFuelTanks
		TargetFields = volume
		TargetValues = 65;130;195;260
	}


	MODULE
	{
		name = USModuleSwitch
		SwitchID = 1
		TargetModule = ModuleFuelTanks
		TargetFields = type
		TargetValues = Default;Cryogenic;ServiceModule;ElectricPropulsion
	}

	
	MODULE 
	{ 
		name = USSwitchControl
		SwitchID = 1
		ButtonName = Tank Type
		ModuleDisplayName = Tank Type
		CurrentVariantTitle = Tank Type
		ShowPreviousButton = False
		ObjectNames = Default;Cryogenic;ServiceModule;ElectricPropulsion
		FuelSwitchModeTwo = False
		VariantColors = #eb7c10,#999999;#eb7c10,#999999;#eb7c10,#999999;#eb7c10,#999999
	}
}

 

This setup uses US2's built in switch controls to create PAW selectors like this:

Spoiler

The second switch does work correctly, swapping the tank type from Default to Cryogenic etc, but the first one which is supposed to increase the volume of the tank to match the increasing size of the model refuses to work. I'd hoped it would work in a similar way to the procedural parts tanks where when the tank changes size and the volume value is increased or decreased, it prompts ModuleFuelTanks to update its volume based on the new volume value I've fed it through the switch. Unfortunately, it refuses to update and stays stuck on 65L no matter what I do to try to get it to update dynamically.

I'm really hoping you might have some ideas on how to force ModuleFuelTanks to update dynamically with this changing value in the same way that it does for Procedural Parts as I'm completely out of ideas and about to give up.

Thanks

PS: Really sorry about the ping, but I felt that you might be one of the only people who might be able to help solve this and it doesn't seem like you pay much attention to this thread anymore.

EDIT: Just in case it isn't clear, SwitchID 0 is already part of the part and also controls which version (1 high through 4 high) of the model is shown.

Edited January 30, 2021 by SpacedInvader

[JebIsDeadBaby]

On 1/30/2021 at 2:18 AM, SpacedInvader said:

If you're using KSP 1.11 you can't refill EVA tanks from the pod stores anymore

I don't mean refill, I mean how do you add any fuel at all? My jet packs come empty and there is no option to fill them, as with any other RF tanks. They are patched as service tanks though, I'm kinda not sure where this patch comes from. I don't recall any patch regarding EVA Propellant. How come no one complains about it? Am I the only one with this problem? Do your jet packs come filled with any fuel? 

Edited January 31, 2021 by JebIsDeadBaby

[SpacedInvader]

3 hours ago, JebIsDeadBaby said:

I don't mean refill, I mean how do you add any fuel at all? My jet packs come empty and there is no option to fill them, as with any other RF tanks. They are patched as service tanks though, I'm kinda not sure where this patch comes from. I don't recall any patch regarding EVA Propellant. How come no one complains about it? Am I the only one with this problem? Do your jet packs come filled with any fuel? 

So it turns out I wasn't quite paying attention to what I was reading from when I replied to your post, the patch notes are from KSP 1.11.1 actually and after downloading that, I do see the line they were referring to in the configs. After some testing it looks like it doesn't matter what resource you patch into the jetpacks because they don't actually refill from whats on the ship but rather from a magical stockpile. With that said, I think I might know where you went wrong here... did you change both the tank contents and the KerbalEVA module's fuel of choice? Here is the patch I just whipped up to make my jetpacks use Hydrazine instead of EVA Propellant and it works just fine:
 

@PART[kerbalEVA*]:NEEDS[RealFuels]
{
    @MODULE[KerbalEVA]
    {
        @propellantResourceName = Hydrazine
    }
}

@PART[evaJetpack]:NEEDS[RealFuels]
{
    !RESOURCE[*]{}
    RESOURCE
    {
        name = Hydrazine
        amount = 5
        maxAmount = 5
        isTweakable = False
    }
}

My thinking is you changed the jetpack's contents, but not the fuel the kerbal's eva module, which is actually a part of the kerbal themselves, wants to see. If I'm still wrong here, my best suggestion is to remove the service tanks from the kerbals and just pick a single fuel for them to use and define it in a fixed way like I did in the patch.

EDIT: Considering the fact that the tanks refill magically, it might be better from a realism perspective to use something like nitrogen since hydrazine is just a little too terrible of a chemical to be put into something you might accidentally fire inside the ship...

Edited February 1, 2021 by SpacedInvader

[JebIsDeadBaby]

6 hours ago, SpacedInvader said:

With that said, I think I might know where you went wrong here...

That's the thing - it's not me. From the moment I installed 1.11, jet packs were patched to 25l service tanks. I don't recall any patch regarding EVA propellant but I guess it is there somewhere and it does it's job on jet packs. 

6 hours ago, SpacedInvader said:

remove the service tanks from the kerbals and just pick a single fuel for them to use and define it in a fixed way

Do you mean remove service tanks for jet packs? Anyway, I'll try your patch today. 

BTW, since 1.11 I don'y get rescue contracts. Can it be related to this change in EVA?