More connection points on sub-assemblies

[Dr Mayhem22]

When you save a sub-assembly, it only seems to have one connection point on it, even if there are several viable connection point locations. The game seems to do this also when you take off sections of crafts in general. Perhaps we could have the green connection orb display at all viable connection points?

[vexx32]

Could we? Probably. I don't want to say yes, since I'm not familiar with the actual coding that would be required. It wouldn't be as simple as you think, though. Subassemblies show a single connection point because that is their root node; crafts and assemblies are constructed, stored, and saved in a layout that ends up a bit like a tree. One part begins the tree, being the "root", and then you add trunk and branch parts to infinity. What you ask would require the game to rearrange the layout entirely and re-draw the entire tree structure so as to have a different root node without changing the parts' individual positions in the 3-D space. I honestly have no idea how complex that calculation would be, but I know that it's not one I can do myself, with or without a calculator.

[Kasuha]

It may already get frustrating if single part you are trying to attach to your ship wants to stick differently than you want it to stick - either it snaps to a different attach point, or it sticks radially to something. If the whole subassembly did this, it might turn to nightmare.

However - the game already reroots the ship every time two ships are docked. So I believe adding this function to the VAB/SPH to allow selecting which part of the subassembly will be the connecting one might not be that much work and would help a lot. I know there is a plugin for it but I still think it should be in the core game.

It would be also great if it was possible to load a subassembly as initial part to empty VAB/SPH.

[Captain Sierra]

It may already get frustrating if single part you are trying to attach to your ship wants to stick differently than you want it to stick - either it snaps to a different attach point, or it sticks radially to something. If the whole subassembly did this, it might turn to nightmare.

However - the game already reroots the ship every time two ships are docked. So I believe adding this function to the VAB/SPH to allow selecting which part of the subassembly will be the connecting one might not be that much work and would help a lot. I know there is a plugin for it but I still think it should be in the core game.

It would be also great if it was possible to load a subassembly as initial part to empty VAB/SPH.

That plugin you think of wouldn't happen to be SelectRoot would it?

And I second, particularly the second part of yoru post.

[Atoning Unifex]

Yes, if possible this would be very useful and time saving. If I have a stack of parts in the VAB on top of my main command pod and want to swap that to under it I have to do each part at a time currently, which takes time and is needlessly fiddly.

Actually, and slightly off topic, I think that sub-assemblies should allow saving of the primary command pod/probe core too. If I design a rover in SPH and then want to move it into VAB to stick on a rocket I have to currentlt either copy the file outide of the game or 'hang' the rover design off a command pod so I can save the rest in a subassembly... If that makes sense!?

[SRV Ron]

It is just as easy to save the basic command module as is under a name describing it as such rather then trying to do so as a sub assembly. I do that a lot when working on a design that is expanded upon for longer flight missions.

[tetryds]

It would be good to have a button to enable or disable that if it happens.

That would fix the problem Kasuha mentioned.

Also, if we were abble to slide the connection point it would make the builds a lot more flexible.

For example, you want to attach a wing but its never on the right place, you just hold a button and move the mouse and it will "slide" itself but mantaining the attaching point where it was right before you pressed the slide button (somewhat simmilar to procedural wings but moving the attaching point).

And it can be applied only for the vertical axis, and limited to the part size, which wouldnt allow the part to look like its floating.

[vexx32]

It may already get frustrating if single part you are trying to attach to your ship wants to stick differently than you want it to stick - either it snaps to a different attach point, or it sticks radially to something. If the whole subassembly did this, it might turn to nightmare.

However - the game already reroots the ship every time two ships are docked. So I believe adding this function to the VAB/SPH to allow selecting which part of the subassembly will be the connecting one might not be that much work and would help a lot. I know there is a plugin for it but I still think it should be in the core game.

It would be also great if it was possible to load a subassembly as initial part to empty VAB/SPH.

From what I know of the docking implementation (from what Harv has stated of it), the game just selects one ship to be the "main" ship, and just attaches the second craft to it, just like attaching a subassembly. I'm fairly sure it doesn't reroute the entire ship's connections.

[tetryds]

From what I know of the docking implementation (from what Harv has stated of it), the game just selects one ship to be the "main" ship, and just attaches the second craft to it, just like attaching a subassembly. I'm fairly sure it doesn't reroute the entire ship's connections.

Ok, but then how using 2 or more ports to dock at once works?

They attach at one port then keep locked by docking strenght at the other one?

[vexx32]

Nope. One of the dockings is done normally, and then any secondary or subsequent ports that are in correct alignment will connect in much the same way as struts connect things. There's no actual connection point in the same way as the rest of the parts in the tree; it's just a sort of footnote that says "attach to this other thing here in this direction". That's an oversimplification for sure, but that's basically how it goes, from last time one of the devs explained it.

[tetryds]

Nope. One of the dockings is done normally, and then any secondary or subsequent ports that are in correct alignment will connect in much the same way as struts connect things. There's no actual connection point in the same way as the rest of the parts in the tree; it's just a sort of footnote that says "attach to this other thing here in this direction". That's an oversimplification for sure, but that's basically how it goes, from last time one of the devs explained it.

Couldnt that be used to "cheat" the tree and allow more complex rocketry?

[vexx32]

Mmmmh. Sort of. The part that is "cheat-connected" still needs to have a connection path that eventually leads back to the root, though. You can't have a part cheat-connected that just sort of sits there on the side of the rocket, not properly attached to anything else in the structure... though I guess if the system was reworked a little, you could have crafts that are actually multiple sets of tree configurations which are just cheat-connected to each other.

[tetryds]

Mmmmh. Sort of. The part that is "cheat-connected" still needs to have a connection path that eventually leads back to the root, though. You can't have a part cheat-connected that just sort of sits there on the side of the rocket, not properly attached to anything else in the structure... though I guess if the system was reworked a little, you could have crafts that are actually multiple sets of tree configurations which are just cheat-connected to each other.

That sounds way more cool than you probably imaginated.

So that would be basically picking several trees and sticking it's branches to form a new tree.

And there is the solution to the tree method!

As the OP says, then a subassembly would be a ship with its root anywhere, and it would have all conection points the ship would have.

Every of those points would connect to any of the ship and create a cheat connection to plug them together.

Awesome.

[vexx32]

It's a potential solution, aye. It could work, indeed, at least as far as I can see; I'm not much of a programmer, myself. Actually making it possible would require some alterations to how craft files are processed, saved and loaded. It'd also need some alterations to the VAB/SPH construction scenes in order for them to facilitate it...

Subassemblies might need a bit of a rework as well to get it working with them, depending. And last but not least, it'd probably be a very inefficient way of doing it compared to some other potential solutions. Craft loading/saving might be slowed down as a result.

Edited January 20, 2014 by vexx32

[Kasuha]

From what I know of the docking implementation (from what Harv has stated of it), the game just selects one ship to be the "main" ship, and just attaches the second craft to it, just like attaching a subassembly. I'm fairly sure it doesn't reroute the entire ship's connections.

I'm fairly sure it does so for at least one of the two ships. Because among others it also affects fuel flow.

[vexx32]

That's very interesting indeed... so the logic for doing so is almost certainly already encoded. That should make it somewhat easier...