[1.10.0] Final Frontier - kerbal individual merits 1.10.0-3485

[Raven.]

Ok, I will check this, too. The good news: I have added a configuration window in which the log level could be adjusted, so we can get a more detailed view if necessary without spamming the log. The strange thing is, that some of the issues are not deterministic. I suspected the ingame time at first (FF relies heavy on those timestamps and reverts ribbon assignments, if time is reverted), but it seems that this part is ok. Hash- and Equal-methods are next candidates for causing such problems. Missing entries in some internal lists may cause this, too.

I will first try to solve the reproducable issue that I have found. Maybe this solve others, too. This could take some days (until friday/saturday?).

Does anybody have any issues with non-custom ribbons or issues without using custom ribbons at all?

I personally have not had any issues since the last update, at least not that I can tell. I played for about three hours last night with FF with the non-custom ribbons and didn't have any issue.

[Green Skull]

Nereid would you be interested in working alongside me on my ranked suits project? SmarterThanMe sent me some rank badges a while ago and I got around to thinking about the idea.

Are you going to be giving ranks in your mod? Players could then give kerbals the correct suit for the rank achieved. In the future it would be awesome if they could have the correct suit assigned by final frontier if they had achieved the rank assigned...

This kerbal would be a general. It is only rough to give ideas.

I was also thinking about assigning kerbals specific roles - commander, pilot, mission specialist... and making suits with different colour patches to signify roles. Using the star trek system commander would be red, pilot yellow and mission specialist blue but that may be something else.

[Talisar]

I was also thinking about assigning kerbals specific roles - commander, pilot, mission specialist... and making suits with different colour patches to signify roles. Using the star trek system commander would be red, pilot yellow and mission specialist blue but that may be something else.

Hmmm... While I love this idea, and I realize that you are going by TNG uniform assignments, I still feel it would be unnecessarily cruel to put a kerbal in a red shirt. It would just be painfully pointing out the obvious.

[Green Skull]

It would be custom decals using the star trek colours on Proots excellent white suit to designate jobs. The ranked suits for FF would be the same but using the FF ranking system.

Star trek suits are something else entirely since thabryc designed some heads and agreed I could use them Star Trek Heads

[Nereid]

Just a small update: I found two errors in the code that caused the vanishing custom ribbons. One of them is a really big one... I'm still testing, if fixing this will solve all problems.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Nereid

[Nereid]

It seems that those two fixes solves the problem with the custom ribbons. Not all (see below), but the most obvious is gone for me. One bug had rendered custom ribbons broken. It worked randomly, but often the ribbons get mixed up.

I have uploaded a test version: 0.3.5

Feel free to DL it. I will upload it on spaceport if I get some positive feedback.

There is still one issue remaining: I had exactly one case (out of many), where assigning a custom ribbon at Space Center destroyed a save game. Just after assigning it, all kerbals were dead and time was reset to game start. I suspect some kind of threading problem when calling HighLogic.CurrentGame.Updated(). Maybe someone knows a better method to mark the game as updated (necessary at Space Center, because the game wasn't saved otherwise). This call is only done if a custom ribbon is assigned while not in flight.

EDIT: I will answer some other posts later this weekend.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Nereid

[JedTech]

It seems that those two fixes solves the problem with the custom ribbons. Not all (see below), but the most obvious is gone for me. One bug had rendered custom ribbons broken. It worked randomly, but often the ribbons get mixed up.

I have uploaded a test version: 0.3.5

Feel free to DL it. I will upload it on spaceport if I get some positive feedback.

There is still one issue remaining: I had exactly one case (out of many), where assigning a custom ribbon at Space Center destroyed a save game. Just after assigning it, all kerbals were dead and time was reset to game start. I suspect some kind of threading problem when calling HighLogic.CurrentGame.Updated(). Maybe someone knows a better method to mark the game as updated (necessary at Space Center, because the game wasn't saved otherwise). This call is only done if a custom ribbon is assigned while not in flight.

EDIT: I will answer some other posts later this weekend.

Thanks for all the work you are doing on this, I love this plugin! Sadly, I can't get on the computer to test until Sunday.

[vardicd]

It seems that those two fixes solves the problem with the custom ribbons. Not all (see below), but the most obvious is gone for me. One bug had rendered custom ribbons broken. It worked randomly, but often the ribbons get mixed up.

I have uploaded a test version: 0.3.5

Feel free to DL it. I will upload it on spaceport if I get some positive feedback.

There is still one issue remaining: I had exactly one case (out of many), where assigning a custom ribbon at Space Center destroyed a save game. Just after assigning it, all kerbals were dead and time was reset to game start. I suspect some kind of threading problem when calling HighLogic.CurrentGame.Updated(). Maybe someone knows a better method to mark the game as updated (necessary at Space Center, because the game wasn't saved otherwise). This call is only done if a custom ribbon is assigned while not in flight.

EDIT: I will answer some other posts later this weekend.

BOOM: Downloaded. Won't get to test till tomorrow, but will certainly let you know how it goes!

!!Edit!!: :D I totally P#$$*) the room-mate off, refused to surrender the PC when I was supposed to {We share one, she'll get over it} First tests show no more custom ribbon loss on game restart!!!!!!!

Edited March 14, 2014 by vardicd
Refused to surrender PC to room-mate for testing

[Raven.]

It seems that those two fixes solves the problem with the custom ribbons. Not all (see below), but the most obvious is gone for me. One bug had rendered custom ribbons broken. It worked randomly, but often the ribbons get mixed up.

I have uploaded a test version: 0.3.5

Feel free to DL it. I will upload it on spaceport if I get some positive feedback.

There is still one issue remaining: I had exactly one case (out of many), where assigning a custom ribbon at Space Center destroyed a save game. Just after assigning it, all kerbals were dead and time was reset to game start. I suspect some kind of threading problem when calling HighLogic.CurrentGame.Updated(). Maybe someone knows a better method to mark the game as updated (necessary at Space Center, because the game wasn't saved otherwise). This call is only done if a custom ribbon is assigned while not in flight.

EDIT: I will answer some other posts later this weekend.

I'll give it a shot tonight, I'll let you know if I run into any problems.

[Nereid]

BOOM: Downloaded. Won't get to test till tomorrow, but will certainly let you know how it goes!

!!Edit!!: :D I totally P#$$*) the room-mate off, refused to surrender the PC when I was supposed to {We share one, she'll get over it} First tests show no more custom ribbon loss on game restart!!!!!!!

TY for reporting. I'm quite confident that this fix will solve this issue so I have uploaded FF on Space Port now. It should not break the classic ribbons (I have tested it only for a few ribbons, but all changes are related to custom ribbons only).

I still do not understand why the ALT-F key isn't working for everyone.

[SmarterThanMe]

New version seems to have solved the problems for me too. Alt-F works.

In regards to ranks mentioned by Green Skull. I have some ideas on how you could implement it, but I can't help with the coding. Heh. I'll wait for you to decide either way, before cluttering your thread.

[Cydonian Monk]

The new update looks good to me, and Alt+F works too. Custom ribbons seem to stick. (And I've never had a save game butchered by FF anyway.)

I do have one request - I'm on a small screen (1280x800) and have to move the FF main window to the left every time it opens. Thus far after each stable release I've been updating your code to spawn the window further to the left, but I was wondering if you'd be up for adding some code to remember the last window position?

[Nereid]

I do have one request - I'm on a small screen (1280x800) and have to move the FF main window to the left every time it opens. Thus far after each stable release I've been updating your code to spawn the window further to the left, but I was wondering if you'd be up for adding some code to remember the last window position?

This is already in the queue. But I had to implement persistent settings/configs for this. This is done now and window positions will be saved in one of the next releases.

[Cydonian Monk]

This is already in the queue. But I had to implement persistent settings/configs for this. This is done now and window positions will be saved in one of the next releases.

Excellent. Thanks!

[Nereid]

Excellent. Thanks!

Just try it: 0.3.6 with saved window positions

[Cydonian Monk]

Just try it: 0.3.6 with saved window positions

It seems to calculate the initial position of the "Decoration Board" window based on the initial position of the main window, even after the main window has moved. It does remember the position of both however, which is exactly what it needs to do. The positions also persist properly across game restarts.

Thanks!

[Raven.]

I guess it may be a little late to report that I've had no issues with the custom ribbons since the 0.3.5 update after a couple days of playing with it?

[Nereid]

I guess it may be a little late to report that I've had no issues with the custom ribbons since the 0.3.5 update after a couple days of playing with it?

It's never to late.

I'm currently integrating new ribbons: a ribbon for planting flags is now working.

[jpkerman]

Now that the custom ribbon bug seems solved, I have been wondering if a small science value should also be given when ribbons are awarded. Let me defend this thinking.

1. The ribbons signify achievements or 'doing things'.

2. In a science or exploration program 'doing things', even if you only learn what you already found out previously actually has some merit to confirm what you thought you had learned.

3. The current science system in KSP 'dead ends' science discovery after a point and negates the small but actual discovery repeated missions would add. In example, long term manning of a space station or launching missions to carry spaceship parts to be assembled in orbit. A science value connected to the repeated missions award or time in space award would make such endeavors actually valuable in the game.

Small amounts, perhaps 1-3 science points. Fast orbit ribbons, long mission time ribbons, missions5,10,50 and splashdown or landing on Kerbin ribbons (making it back alive, even if nothing else is gained is worth something) should be considered.

custom ribbons should not since a player could 'spam' science points by handing out ribbons too easily.

[Astronut25]

Some of my Kerbals start raking in so many ribbons that it can start to get a bit cluttered, so I'd like to propose a method that should help (and IMHO would look better).

I'm not even close to done with him.

When a Kerbal enters SOI of an object, it is awarded with the respective celestial ribbon, on top of which are added the achievements the Kerbal makes while there.

Here is an example of what I'm proposing.

[Nereid]

Some of my Kerbals start raking in so many ribbons that it can start to get a bit cluttered, so I'd like to propose a method that should help (and IMHO would look better).

I'm not even close to done with him.

http://i.imgur.com/g4w24K0.png

This is fixed in 0.3.4. Try 0.3.5. It has better graphics, too.

The main browser window will show up only the 12 most important ribbons (based on prestige). A list of all ribbons is shown in the detailed view of a kerbal.

EDIT: in 0.3.7 some ribbons for surface operations replaces other: EVA on ground replaces landing and planting a flag replaces EVA on ground. This may help a bit.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Nereid

[Nereid]

When a Kerbal enters SOI of an object, it is awarded with the respective celestial ribbon, on top of which are added the achievements the Kerbal makes while there.

Here is an example of what I'm proposing.

http://i.imgur.com/zhS2Nj9.png

Just let me explain why I dont think this will work well:

1. If you just add additional operations icons for a SOI you can't distinguish between first and subsequent operations; e.g: if a kerbal is the first landing on Mun but not first in a Mun orbit we can't add this to one ribbon; ok we can create a special first landing decoration, but the ribbon will be cluttered soon and how could one identify such small graphics on a cluttered ribbon? No a good idea I think.
   
2. The multiple ribbon clutter is only moved to a ribbon decoration clutter; we will have cluttered ribbons this way
   
3. It's a bit more complicated to combine ribbon graphics at runtime.
   
4. Kerbal like ribbons; they want a lot.
   

Now that the custom ribbon bug seems solved, I have been wondering if a small science value should also be given when ribbons are awarded. Let me defend this thinking.

1. The ribbons signify achievements or 'doing things'.

2. In a science or exploration program 'doing things', even if you only learn what you already found out previously actually has some merit to confirm what you thought you had learned.

3. The current science system in KSP 'dead ends' science discovery after a point and negates the small but actual discovery repeated missions would add. In example, long term manning of a space station or launching missions to carry spaceship parts to be assembled in orbit. A science value connected to the repeated missions award or time in space award would make such endeavors actually valuable in the game.

Small amounts, perhaps 1-3 science points. Fast orbit ribbons, long mission time ribbons, missions5,10,50 and splashdown or landing on Kerbin ribbons (making it back alive, even if nothing else is gained is worth something) should be considered.

custom ribbons should not since a player could 'spam' science points by handing out ribbons too easily.

I will give it a try; but if I succeed will give anybody the option to switch this off.

Personally I would prefer this the other way around, i.e. kerbals will be rewarded with ribbons for science points. But I don't know how this could be done at the moment.

Nereid would you be interested in working alongside me on my ranked suits project? SmarterThanMe sent me some rank badges a while ago and I got around to thinking about the idea.

Are you going to be giving ranks in your mod? Players could then give kerbals the correct suit for the rank achieved. In the future it would be awesome if they could have the correct suit assigned by final frontier if they had achieved the rank assigned...

This kerbal would be a general. It is only rough to give ideas.

http://i1332.photobucket.com/albums/w615/greenskullinc/Basicgeneral_zps55e7f540.png

I was also thinking about assigning kerbals specific roles - commander, pilot, mission specialist... and making suits with different colour patches to signify roles. Using the star trek system commander would be red, pilot yellow and mission specialist blue but that may be something else.

The ranking... I'm still thinking about it. Perhaps we can create an optional Plugin for this that keep track of ranks.

Regarding the suits: Changing the suits in FF would be no problem. Again an optional plugin would be the best solution. Thought about displaying the ribbons ingame on a space suit?

Well, I still have to migrate FF from my internal SVN to an external version control system...

[SmarterThanMe]

The ranking... I'm still thinking about it. Perhaps we can create an optional Plugin for this that keep track of ranks.

Fine with me. I've thought about this a fair bit for the last however long and I haven't wanted to distract you while you've been working on debugging custom ribbons, so can I suggest how to implement it?

Kerbonauts start at Lt2 and the date that they are brought into the game is recorded.

Their promotion to the next grade (Lt1) becomes available after x game months minus a factor determined by the number of missions they've been on, and how many other ribbons they've received. When they're ready for the next promotion, you can either (1) have it happen automatically; (2) click a button to promote; or (3) have a promotion "day" every month or so when Kerbonauts who passed the formula are placed into a pool for promotion to the next higher rank.

I would prefer option 3, because it would allow a process to only promote the best candidates to the upper ranks. 100% of candidates from the pools should be promoted to Lt1 and Capt, but after that there should be a set percentage of available candidates can be promoted up (down to, say, 50% of candidates getting promoted to Col). So the candidates with the most ribbons should get promoted over less decorated colleagues.

There should be a set number of Kerbonauts at the General ranks (say 3 Brigadiers, 2 Major Generals, 1 Lt. General and 1 General), and the best qualified (most ribbons) individual from the next lower rank should replace retiring Kerbonauts. Or you could set it so that a choice has to be made from 2 or 3 or whatever on retirement of someone from an upper rank.

I have done graphics (although I'm open to criticism, and they'd need a background to fit with whatever) for each rank that you can set as the first ribbon in FF's display perhaps?

...I've tried to avoid the ranks being too Americocentric (or Auscentric for that matter too), so no eagle for Colonel, no Leaf for Major or Lt. Colonel etc.

Does this seem reasonable, Nereid (and anyone else)?

[Aknar]

(Snip) fit nice idea over-head in here

Nice but way to militaristic (and serious) for kerbals. Here's my interpretation on this:

At the beginning, kerbals are humoristic characters that see their rockets blow up and always seem to end up surviving to the horrific "miscalculation"

For this reason, let's keep a lighter side to the ranks and give this a vanilla feel that will satisfy most people.

As death is considered in this mod, it makes it way more serious and the post-mortem rank should be sober and serious.

At the beginning, kerbals should get ranks in the spirit of object descriptions and forum user status. Example: "test dummy trainee","unpaid intern","Licensed to ride up front", ...

As they get more medals and we get more attached to them, the status would become more serious to fit your serious and complex missions. It could simply be "Commander Kerbaunaut", ...

This would give an added layer of sense of accomplishment.

Only problem I see with this is the size the rank names could take up...

Also, Nereid, Would it be possible to add a setting option to display the ribbons vertically so it would take less space, and organise them by importance rather than order of achievement?

Edited March 17, 2014 by Aknar

[Nereid]

Nice but way to militaristic (and serious) for kerbals. Here's my interpretation on this:

Also, Nereid, Would it be possible to add a setting option to display the ribbons vertically so it would take less space, and organise them by importance rather than order of achievement?

?? Maybe I had just not noticed this, but they should be organized vertically and by importance. Importance is listed top down in the ribbon browser. In the decoration panel of a kerbal the are organized both verticaly and horizontally form left to right and top down. Are they listed horizontally??

You mean the ribbon graphics? This is a bit more difficult and I don't think it would work well. I think they should look as in real life, i.e. horizontally displayed. The ordering isn't quite right (the most important should be centered), but this is only a minor annoyance I think.

I could add an option to increase the number of ribbons in the hall of fame (12, 16, or 20). But this would take more space per kerbal. An automatic display of all ribbons on mouse hover comes into my mind...

Regarding the rank icons. I will try to add some kind of gui element to display a placeholder.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Nereid