"Kolsys 5.2 Explorer" - Heavy Lifter, Orbiter, Lander & Rover - AIO

[Ezriilc]

UPDATE:

Now, with a new heavy lander and rover. I've also uploaded some sub-assemblies that can be used without the hugosity of Kolsys complete.

The Kolsys series of rockets has evolved quite a bit, and I'm particularly proud of this 5th generation. The features that make her stand out are:

• High-capacity
  Thrust-to-Weight Ratio of 2.0 at launch.
  She can put 131 tonnes into a 100-kilometer orbit. That's 3 orange tanks with a ship-load of engines and snacks for the trip.
  
• High-efficiency
  Built with the lightest parts and most efficient engines possible.
  Jets and boosters give her a "free ride" up to ~15,000 meters, and only then does she fire the rockets.
  
• Long-Range
  With 10,000 delta-v on Kerbin orbit, she can reach any planet in the system, and land on 10 of them (if you add a lander).
  

Downloads are here

Edited February 17, 2014 by Ezriilc
Updated to include new lander and rover.

[Pontiac]

Flagged thread for spamming a good ship.. .. flagged? I mean tracking. yeah.. tracking this so I can try this at home later.

[Ezriilc]

Flagged thread for spamming a good ship.. .. flagged? I mean tracking. yeah.. tracking this so I can try this at home later.

My face flushed beet-red and I was about to pull out my download links and delete my siggy! Sheesh...

Please let me know what you think, and thanks!

[Jeb Cubed]

Looks good, but I would like to see more pictures. I guess I will have to try it out to see.

[Ezriilc]

Thanks! I'll upload some more shots if/when I take some.

[Camaron]

This is really good! I've seen "better", with 600 parts, but I like how parts-efficient this is.

Tip from a guy who builds with similar intentions: If you havent already, go to where the persistent debris is in the game settings and switch it to 0. literally anything with a dock is considered a procbe, not debris, so that's not a worry.

Why is this good? That way, any of those parts that leave behind knobs which DO count as parts and weigh in against your physics, will phase out if you have them pointed the right way. (Decoupler stubs, fuel lines and struts from old stages)

Basically, the actual physical base of the fuel lines and struts comes from whereever the thing begins. In this scenario, if a strut from a piece that was tossed off phases out and is based on the tossed off part, that debris will eventually disappear and so will the stub it left on your final ship.

That might be a bit confusing, but it can save on excess little vestigial fragments on your ship that shouldn't exist. Weight too. That sort of thing will needlessly sit on you ship as weight as well.

I bring this up because I can see several strut-stubs on your ship. if you went to you hange and simply reverse the direction so that the starting point is on the part that falls away instead, then the leftover stub will vanish whenever that debris does, because the strut still exists on BOTH points UNTIL the part which counts as the starting point is eliminated.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Camaron

[Ezriilc]

This is really good! I've seen "better", with 600 parts, but I like how parts-efficient this is.

Thank you. I'd love to see "better" 600-part ships. I mostly work in a vacuum, so I've no idea what others have achieved.

Tip from a guy who builds with similar intentions: If you havent already, go to where the persistent debris is in the game settings and switch it to 0. literally anything with a dock is considered a procbe, not debris, so that's not a worry.

Excellent advice for anyone having serious lag issues with large ships - like this one.

[Camaron]

So I reversed the struts and relaunched the ship myself. I also changed the jets a little but that turned out to hurt me overall.

Achieved WELL past the advertised 100KM orbit with the launch rig, and made a circular 145 Km orbit on this thing. Totally stock, with no mods at all, not even info-graphics.

Here's a pic of your beautiful ship (68 parts! I'll admit Ive never topped that with a ship this strong!) in its round 45km with NO STRUT STUBS!

[Ezriilc]

So I reversed the struts and relaunched the ship myself.

...

... NO STRUT STUBS!

...

Did changing the struts help your lag issue? It wasn't a problem for me, so I hadn't thought to do that. If so, I should update the build and re-upload it.

I'm glad you like it, and thanks for all the feedback!

[Camaron]

Lag only affects me starting in the 600-800 range, I've got a pretty respectable PC. I mostly wanted to showcase what I meant about the struts though. However when you start sticking several ships and landers together, you can start piling up a lot of parts very quickly, so having a tug that is sub-70 parts can be phenomenally useful.

I did also notice that you don't use what's known as "Intake Spam". Is that because you feel like it's cheating? or are you actually unaware of the concept? A good Intake spam can keep jets running as high as 35,000 Meters, but some consider it cheap. One drawback is that it can harshly rise your partcount though. (On the launcher - still would dissappear with the rest of it but could make for a chuggy launch)

[Ezriilc]

Lag only affects me starting in the 600-800 range, I've got a pretty respectable PC. I mostly wanted to showcase what I meant about the struts though. However when you start sticking several ships and landers together, you can start piling up a lot of parts very quickly, so having a tug that is sub-70 parts can be phenomenally useful.

I did also notice that you don't use what's known as "Intake Spam". Is that because you feel like it's cheating? or are you actually unaware of the concept? A good Intake spam can keep jets running as high as 35,000 Meters, but some consider it cheap. One drawback is that it can harshly rise your partcount though. (On the launcher - still would dissappear with the rest of it but could make for a chuggy launch)

So, I should reverse the struts then? Either I'm used to the lag, or my system overcomes it - 3ghz quad-core, 8 GB RAM, 1 GB NVIDIA GT 440.

I don't "abuse" intakes too much because I like to be somewhat "realistic", and keep the part count down, but I'm not completely opposed to it, and I've actually experimented quite a lot. I'm sure there's some room on this craft to increase her air-breathing altitude, but I find myself wanting to exchange the Ram Air intakes for Radials mounted to the jet engine de-couplers.

[Camaron]

Reversing the struts, at least when considering the final ship, is always good. Anything Temporary should be where the struts start point is attached.

As for your computer, it seems pretty good to me. I would be surprised if you saw any serious lag under 400 parts.

Lastly, I can tell you that the Ram Intakes will always be significantly better than other intakes in higher altitudes, and are the only ones capable of extending your range to anything substantially over 20K.

[Ezriilc]

Reversing the struts, at least when considering the final ship, is always good. Anything Temporary should be where the struts start point is attached.

That's good to know. I'll make that change.

As for your computer, it seems pretty good to me. I would be surprised if you saw any serious lag under 400 parts.

I've built and flown ships with over 1500 parts. I get no serious lag with this one.

Lastly, I can tell you that the Ram Intakes will always be significantly better than other intakes in higher altitudes, and are the only ones capable of extending your range to anything substantially over 20K.

I would only replace them with Radials in an effort to further reduce the part count and mass after the jet stage, but those differences aren't terribly significant, so I haven't tried that.

[Camaron]

Here is a big prebuilt stack of Intakes I often use. It's very dense, and since theyre all strapped to a structural beam, you can simply tack it onto you ship as if it were one easy part.

http://www.2shared.com/file/e_Kvz_V1/Intake_Pile.html

Here's the result of launching essentially the same ship with four of those intake piles strapped on:

(I also trimmed 16 of the ship's struts, bringing the total parts of the tug down to a solid 52.)

Note: All the "Disappearing stubs" I was mentioning earlier typically only take effect after you shift to Space Center and back.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Camaron

[Camaron]

Oh: And also:

Congratulations! This is the first ship I've ever downloaded and flown that isn't my own design! I really like it. Well done.

Later did a test just for kicks: How wide can I make a round orbit with that extra 2,000 Rocket Fuel from the launcher? It got me up to 640K x 630K.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Camaron

[Ezriilc]

I've flipped 8 struts around, but they're there for rigidity during guided flight. Trying to do precision maneuvers with a wet noodle can be a big waste of fuel, especially if there are no lag issues anyway.

As for intakes, they also contribute to lag, and I do think that abusing them is a bit cheesey. From an engineering point of view, like IRL, I much prefer to keep things simple and elegant.

That doesn't mean I'm not gleefully trying out all the things you mention and every other whim that strikes me. Just that I don't plan to publish the ship that way.

In fact, I really dig all the great input (rep++), and now you have me thinking about building a "fastest, highest-jet-altitude, but LEAST-air-hoggy, heavy-lifter". If I come up with something good, I'll post a new thread.

[John Crichton]

Nice one! I'm actually in the process of building a 11k DeltaV interplanetary mothership for my Kethane lander...this gives me some helpful inspiration

[Ezriilc]

Nice one! I'm actually in the process of building a 11k DeltaV interplanetary mothership for my Kethane lander...this gives me some helpful inspiration

Thanks; I'm glad to be of service.

11k delta-v?! I can't wait to see it, please let me know when it's ready, eh? If you'd be so kind, could you send it to me via our website contact page? I'd love to add it to our collection. You can even have your own section if you like. The same goes for anyone with stuff to show off. I don't mind if you use us as a storage bin.

[John Crichton]

Thanks; I'm glad to be of service.

11k delta-v?! I can't wait to see it, please let me know when it's ready, eh? If you'd be so kind, could you send it to me via our website contact page? I'd love to add it to our collection. You can even have your own section if you like. The same goes for anyone with stuff to show off. I don't mind if you use us as a storage bin.

No problem, I hope to have something ready this weekend.

Did some calculations (at work, lol) and right now my plan looks a bit like this:

- 5.8k deltaV Kethane lander (good enough to refuel everything on anything but Eve, Jool, Lythe, Kerbin and Tylo). If I start with a full tank in orbit, I can land and take off again on Kerbin, Lythe and Tylo though with only my 1 single stage. Obviously refueling is much easier on low-grav moons/planets since I'll have more fuel to spare.

- 1st add-on drive upping the lander and add-on's deltaV. This will be dockable to the lander and used to allow refueling on the more challenging planets/moons like Tylo. Will probably stay in orbit when refueling on low-grav planets/moons.

- 2nd add-on drive allowing me to make the 10.8 deltaV trip from Pol to Tylo (10% safety margin included). This part docks to the 1st add-on drive and will stay in orbit 99% of the time.

That way I can reuse the design for various missions and simply leave out the extra drives whenever I don't need them. All single stage to orbit from Kerbin and on to Minmus to refuel those 11k'ish deltaVs. From there I can reach anywhere in the system without ever having to worry about fuel tanks.

The Kethane lander's ready and works like a charm. Gets to Kerbin orbit (100k'ish) but can't land again without refueling. Working on the 2 drives at the moment.

It's a bit of a challenge to be honest...but coming from Eve Online I kinda enjoy "spreadsheet games"

Edited February 13, 2014 by John Crichton

[Ezriilc]

No problem, I hope to have something ready this weekend.

Did some calculations (at work, lol) and right now my plan looks a bit like this:

- 5.8k deltaV Kethane lander (good enough to refuel everything on anything but Eve, Jool, Lythe, Kerbin and Tylo). If I start with a full tank in orbit, I can land and take off again on Kerbin, Lythe and Tylo though with only my 1 single stage. Obviously refueling is much easier on low-grav moons/planets since I'll have more fuel to spare.

- 1st add-on drive upping the lander and add-on's deltaV. This will be dockable to the lander and used to allow refueling on the more challenging planets/moons like Tylo. Will probably stay in orbit when refueling on low-grav planets/moons.

- 2nd add-on drive allowing me to make the 10.8 deltaV trip from Pol to Tylo (10% safety margin included). This part docks to the 1st add-on drive and will stay in orbit 99% of the time.

That way I can reuse the design for various missions and simply leave out the extra drives whenever I don't need them. All single stage to orbit from Kerbin and on to Minmus to refuel those 11k'ish deltaVs. From there I can reach anywhere in the system without ever having to worry about fuel tanks.

The Kethane lander's ready and works like a charm. Gets to Kerbin orbit (100k'ish) but can't land again without refueling. Working on the 2 drives at the moment.

It's a bit of a challenge to be honest...but coming from Eve Online I kinda enjoy "spreadsheet games"

Oh, so that's more than one orbit shot from Kerbin?

Although I've never used Kethane - I'm an all-stock-but MJ-and-HyperEdit kinda guy - so much of what you say is Greek to me, it sounds like you are quite the pilot/mission commander, whereas I tend to enjoy building as much or more than flying. I haven't been beyond the Mun yet, but I can get there with a good fart and a sextant. I seem to spend all my time in the VAB/SPH, with excursions into the daylight only for destructive testing. I really should get out more...

[John Crichton]

I'm not anywhere near an expert pilot, just started playing 2 weeks ago

Just tested my "SSTO to wherever" Kethane lander, and I have a problem. Right now I'm at around 11.5k deltaV, so while I can go pretty much anywhere I want, Tylo's an issue. Went from Kerbin to Minmus, refueled and went on to Pol. Up until that point, no problems. However, once I get from Pol to Tylo, I'm stuck. I can refuel of course, but that will only get me to just beyond Jool, not to the next refueling moon.

My (arguably Guinness-fueled) calculations tell me I need 14.25k deltaV if I want a comfortable 10% error margin. In short, I need to somehow find another 3k'ish deltaV somewhere. Using a mix of nukes and aerospikes at the moment. The spikes seem kinda awesome for landings where you really need the thrust (Tyolo, Kerbin, Lythe)...and the nukes are for planetary/moon transfers...slow but efficient.

Right now my lander has 15 landing legs (lol), so my guess is if I go any bigger I'll have to invent some makeshift "legs" because the stock ones won't cut it and I don't want any other mods.

Up to 197 parts so far.

Fiddling around with engine combinations at the moment, but I have a feeling I need to go a little bigger to accommodate those extra 3k'ish deltaV.

PS: I'm totally stock too other than the Kethane mod and Mechjeb. The only other mod I have is a spinning habitat for 4 Kerbalites...but it won't fit on my "do it all" lander anyway.

Edited February 14, 2014 by John Crichton

[Camaron]

I've been here before. Once your landers start getting too huge, try designing more compact, and lighter.

One tip I have for example - Remove ALL batteries and add just a few generators, depending on how many SAS modules you have. One generator can continuously power two SAS modules for a good deal of continuous time with just the 10-100 charge offered natively by your Kerbal Capsule. as you make your ship lighter, you can drop legs, which will make you lighter still.

Another - Struts when added carelessly can actually ramp up the weight of a smaller lander shockingly fast. Each strut is .05 tons, meaning that just 20 of them brings you to a FULL TON. Same goes for fuel lines.

Similar things apply to many structural parts - Always be aware of the weight of your structure. There is a tiny cube part that weighs .001. It is extremely useful for its "Weightlessness" and can save your life even if you have to string several together to accomplish your needs.

Being as light as possible and not carrying deadweight is extyremely important. Every thousand pounds you carry for no reason will fight you every step of the way.

[Alewx]

This was my first downloaded craft ever, I wanted to get into how to construct this kind of spaceship that can carry a real payload.

It is a cool lifter, but when taking it apart, to find a way get my own ideas into better function, I had to see the parts, are somehow cheated into their Position, how?

2 engines at the same position, is that really stock?

[Camaron]

So.... I stole some of your launcher design and built Quasar II - My new largest Fueling station of all time. It carries up to 115,560 Liquid fuel with 40 Red Jumbo-64 tanks and a conservative 151 parts. Thanks

[John Crichton]

snip

Thanks for the advice! That's pretty much what I'm doing at the moment, cutting all unnecessary weight.

Bit of a balancing act between the nukes and aerospikes too, still refining that.