I just realized I've been doing Science all wrong

[NavyFish]

So there I am, in Minimus orbit, with a Mobile Processing Lab and a small lander. I mean SMALL, this thing had to fit inside a 1.25 meter fairing. It's freakishly tall, but it works. I've crammed a materials bay, 2 goo canisters, and 6 thermometers on it.

My first four biomes went great: I'd drop off the lander, perform a materials study, get 2 goo looks, an EVA report, crew report, take a couple temperature readings, grab a surface sample, and plant a flag to mark the biome. Wait for my MPL/mothership to complete it's orbit, launch and rendezvous, dock, and refuel for the next go. Upon docking, I would use the lab to improve the transmission value of the goo and materials lab, then transmit those along with the crew/eva reports and thermometer readings. I'd then go on EVA, and take the surface sample over to my hitchhiker storage unit, which would ultimately be the return vehicle for my 3 crew (1 lander pilot (Jeb, of course), and the 2 scientists in the lab (Bill and Bob)).

Suddenly, a thought, both monstrous and wonderful dawned upon me: what if I could remove the materials and goo samples from their equipment, and store them in the hitchiker for the return trip as well? I tried it, and, sure enough, it works! This can also be done with the thermometer readings, though on my vessel they're a bit tricky to reach on EVA (this will surely inform my lander designs in the future..).

I'm at once delighted, as instead of losing over 65% of the data value on material lab transmissions, I can return 100% of the data to Kerbin, but also a touch , as I technically 'wasted' several hours conducting landings, only to burn away most of that precious potential science by transmitting the data, thinking I had no way to return the sample home.

So that brings me here, to post my findings, with the hopes that another brave explorer may avoid making this same mistake! I'm willing to believe that most folks know this tip already, but if this post saves just one person their time and data, then it will have been worth it.

Thanks for reading, and, if you have them, please feel free to share any other less-obvious science tips that you may have discovered!

"Dock safe"

-Navy

Edited April 15, 2014 by NavyFish
speeling misteaks

[Othuyeg]

I simply have a bunch of escape pods on my moon station. When my lander comes back to the station, it docks, the pilot transfers all the data to an escape pod in which there is a kerbal waiting. The escape pod will then go home. All you need is a tiny fuel tank and a few parachutes to make it back home. My station has alot of fuel and a processing lab, so i can reset my experiments.

[daniu]

I simply have a bunch of escape pods on my moon station. When my lander comes back to the station, it docks, the pilot transfers all the data to an escape pod in which there is a kerbal waiting. The escape pod will then go home. All you need is a tiny fuel tank and a few parachutes to make it back home. My station has alot of fuel and a processing lab, so i can reset my experiments.

I use unmanned probes with the External Data Storage Containers to send the experiments back.

Doing that from Mun orbit though; always wondered: how do you refuel a lander on a land-based station?

[kurja]

exactly how is this achieved? I tried it once, going eva and right clicking goo cans didn't do anything..?

[daniu]

exactly how is this achieved? I tried it once, going eva and right clicking goo cans didn't do anything..?

You have to perform the experiment while the pilot is still in the capsule; after that you can go EVA, move close to the Goo Container, right-click.

You'll get a warning "this will render the container inoperable" (because it's as if you transmit the experiment).

After accepting that, if you enter the command module again, the experiment will be stored in there. You can manually store it from EVA in another capsule or an MPL too by going close and right-clicking it.

[AlexinTokyo]

If you use the MPL as your return vessel, you can keep more than one of each experiment from the same situation I the same biome; so 2 temperature scans from space just above Minmus. Which is something you can't do with a command pod.

I don't know if you can do this with the Hitchhiker, though. Will have to test that.

[Callmedave]

Hang on, Are you saying i can 'reset' the goo canister/materials bay and then re-do the experiment?

Im taking like 2/3 material bays, 4 goo canisters and loads of thermometers etc to the mun, returning to Kerbin, then doing a whole new launch, and aiming for another biome to get more science.

Also, Im having to bring these material bays etc back with me which can make the landings tricky (well not tricky, but easier if i only need to bring the lander back)

[BudgetHedgehog]

Hang on, Are you saying i can 'reset' the goo canister/materials bay and then re-do the experiment?

Im taking like 2/3 material bays, 4 goo canisters and loads of thermometers etc to the mun, returning to Kerbin, then doing a whole new launch, and aiming for another biome to get more science.

Also, Im having to bring these material bays etc back with me which can make the landings tricky (well not tricky, but easier if i only need to bring the lander back)

Yes. As long as the data is removed (from EVA and stored elsewhere or transmitted), the MPL can fully reset the experiment to be used again. If the data isn't removed, it's destroyed.

Yes, you can remove the data from the experiments for return later. EVA up close to them, right click, 'Take Data' and then enter either a command pod, the lab, or a hitchhikers cabin. The data is then stored there (so if you put it in the command pod, you can just land that with all your data in.

EDIT: What people mostly end up doing is having a lander with 1 materials bay and a couple of goo pods and a lab in orbit (with fuel to top up your lander with). Take the whole thing to your destination of choice (say, Minmus), leave the lab in orbit, land, do Science!, rdv with orbiting lab, remove data from experiments and put in pod, use lab to reset experiments, top up fuel tanks and then land again in a different biome and repeat. AFAIK, there's no limit to the amount of unique data that can be stored in the pod. When you're done, you just need to make sure the pod returns to Kerbin's surface safely. Chutes and decouplers so you don't have to land the whole lander and recover that sweet Science

Edited April 15, 2014 by ObsessedWithKSP

[daniu]

Hang on, Are you saying i can 'reset' the goo canister/materials bay and then re-do the experiment?

Yes, if you dock the craft containing them onto one containing an MPL.

My step-by-step is

- get an MPL into Mun orbit

- send a lander with all relevant experiments to the Mun surface

- after take-off from Mun, dock onto MPL

- transfer experiment data to command capsule

- use MPL to clean experiments

- use lander to land on different Mun Biome

Best to also have fuel ready in orbit for the lander to do multiple cycles.

And again, with the External Data Storage mod you can send the experiments back with minimal unmanned probes.

Here's a screenshot (don't know why it turned out so dark, it was fine when in game ):

Center bottom: MPL; center top: fuel container;

Left hand side: drones for experiment return (the small bumps connected radially); right hand side: lander.

Edited April 15, 2014 by daniu

[Callmedave]

Yes. As long as the data is removed (from EVA and stored elsewhere or transmitted), the MPL can fully reset the experiment to be used again. If the data isn't removed, it's destroyed.

Yes, you can remove the data from the experiments for return later. EVA up close to them, right click, 'Take Data' and then enter either a command pod, the lab, or a hitchhikers cabin. The data is then stored there (so if you put it in the command pod, you can just land that with all your data in.

So, a single trip to the Mun (or minmus) with a rover, 1x materials bay 1x goo etc, i could potentialy bring back tons of science??probably over 1500 science!!

That is so much help!!

- - - Updated - - -

Is there a limit to how may experiments i can store in my lander capsule?

[BudgetHedgehog]

So, a single trip to the Mun (or minmus) with a rover, 1x materials bay 1x goo etc, i could potentialy bring back tons of science??probably over 1500 science!!

That is so much help!!

- - - Updated - - -

Is there a limit to how may experiments i can store in my lander capsule?

Minmus is easier to land and take off from so you can do more with the same lander, and it gives a higher amount of Science. AFAIK, there's no limit to the amount of unique data a pod can store (so long as none are duplicates. You can't, for instance, have two 'goo reports from Minmus poles surface' at once in one pod). The best thing to do is actually visit the same biome twice, and on the first time there, transmit it (after boosted by the lab) and then return the second set.

You can easily complete the tech tree without leaving Kerbins SoI and one successful mission could indeed net you about 2000 science or more.

EDIT: by rover, do you mean a lander? Because a rover would be hard to get into orbit and dock with the lab to be reset Unless you land the lab and drive everywhere (and back to the lab to be reset) but that's take hours. And you'll still need some way of returning to Kerbin.

Edited April 15, 2014 by ObsessedWithKSP

[daniu]

Is there a limit to how may experiments i can store in my lander capsule?

Not really, but you can store only one of each experiment per Biome.

So after you stored a Surface Sample from Mun Midlands, you cannot store another one from there; but you can store one from anywhere else.

[Callmedave]

Minmus is easier to land and take off from so you can do more with the same lander, and it gives a higher amount of Science. AFAIK, there's no limit to the amount of unique data a pod can store (so long as none are duplicates. You can't, for instance, have two 'goo reports from Minmus poles surface' at once in one pod). The best thing to do is actually visit the same biome twice, and on the first time there, transmit it (after boosted by the lab) and then return the second set.

You can easily complete the tech tree without leaving Kerbins SoI and one successful mission could indeed net you about 2000 science or more.

EDIT: by rover, do you mean a lander? Because a rover would be hard to get into orbit and dock with the lab to be reset Unless you land the lab and drive everywhere (and back to the lab to be reset) but that's take hours. And you'll still need some way of returning to Kerbin.

I thought about landing a MPL, a rover and a return pod on the Mun (and minmus on a seperate mission) using the rover to reach all the biomes, return to the MPL to transmit duplicates, and use the pod to return the kerbal.

[Superfluous J]

So, a single trip to the Mun (or minmus) with a rover, 1x materials bay 1x goo etc, i could potentialy bring back tons of science??probably over 1500 science!!

Far more than 1500. I did *8* Mun biomes, getting a single goo, jr, temp, seismic, gravioli, surface sample, and crew report from the surface, and a gravioli and eva report from above the biome, and brought them all back up to orbit where I cleaned out the containers and stored all the science for full (well, mostly full) return. I got over 6000 science from that run. I only stopped because 6000 was all I needed to complete the tech tree.

Is there a limit to how may experiments i can store in my lander capsule?

Nope. You could in theory visit every single biome in the game and store all experiments and readings in a single mk1 capsule.

[BudgetHedgehog]

I thought about landing a MPL, a rover and a return pod on the Mun (and minmus on a seperate mission) using the rover to reach all the biomes, return to the MPL to transmit duplicates, and use the pod to return the kerbal.

You can indeed do it that way, but it'll take longer and is higher risk (rovers are incredibly hard to drive in low gravity worlds. You'll likely flip it within 2 minutes unless you designed it really well). By take longer, I talking hours. Landing in the right spot could have 4 or so biomes within easy driving distance, but you really need to plan your landing for that. And once you're done, don't forget to transfer any remaining data to the pod for return. Also note, returning data is always better than transmitting it, That's why I said visit everywhere twice - transmit the boosted first set, then return the second. That'll give you the most science possible in one mission.

[Callmedave]

EVA and crew reports can be transmitted at 100%,

Doesnt the MPL boost the transmit to 100%?

[BudgetHedgehog]

EVA and crew reports can be transmitted at 100%,

Doesnt the MPL boost the transmit to 100%?

No. It depends on the experiment, but the highest it boosts to is I think 75%. There are mods that increase that though (I use Science Revisited by Robau).

[Callmedave]

ok, well i will just bring a lander that i can 'hop' on both moons to reach all the biomes, (il use a biome map on the wiki)

I done a simple land on Minmus last night and got over 600! imagine what i can get from covering all the biomes!

[EdFred]

I must have really been doing it wrong. I used to just bring the whole science Jr and everything attached to it back to Kerbin - one Mun/Minmus biome at a time.

[psyper]

I started playing ksp about 2 months before the science update first came out so I was in the unique position where I was too early to not be far in to my game play of ksp to want to start again with career mode but too late in the game to be bored of doing what I'm currently doing to want something new. I'm still having so much fun exploring and landing on planets and have quite an infrastructure set to to want to put all those hours building it to one side and start fresh with career.

When it first come out I watch everyone install it and learn step by step how to use it and the best way to do this or the best way to do that - I watched as science spamming was stopped in favour of the MPL and how best to do that. It does look like people did enjoy that trial and error but I prefer knowing what I was doing before I jump in and do it (I watched more or less every scott manley vid before really playing around!)

So the point I'm making is that thankyou guys and especially navyfish for discovering these little tips and tricks - I'm subscribing this thread so its bookmarked for when I do finally venture out in to career mode!!

[Callmedave]

Agree, this has been very very helpfull in the search for science! thanks to all!

[arise257]

I just finished a Mun mission that netted about 3600 science points once I finished. I sent 4 landers, 2 orbital science labs, and 4 fuel tankers. Each lander had a thermometer, Science Jr., and two goo canisters, and each did one biome at a time. Pretty excited to net that much without a complete set of instruments.

[NavyFish]

What was the second MPL for?

[HeadHunter67]

I must have really been doing it wrong. I used to just bring the whole science Jr and everything attached to it back to Kerbin - one Mun/Minmus biome at a time.

I was doing it the same way! It wasn't until a day or two ago that I discovered that a Kerbal can remove the data from a scientific instrument and bring it back in the capsule. I still don't think I'm entirely sure how to properly use the lab, but this thread has clarified it somewhat and I think I'm ready to try science stations in orbit around Minmus and the Mün!

[GoatRider]

The best way to use a lab is to "clean out" Goo and Materials bays. After you take the data and put it in a capsule, you get the option "clean out experiments" which makes them re-usable. Transmitting a higher percent of experiments is pretty useless.

Another lesser use is that Sci Labs can take more than one of the same kind of data. Some experiments you need to repeat up to 4 times to get 100% credit, you can do all of them in one go if you store them in the lab.