mSSTO (micro SSTO) Challenge

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

The challenge here is to come up with a tiny SSTO Spaceplane

1) Only the smallest rocket parts/fuel tanks can be used, and all jet engines/small fuel tanks, except the rapier - keep to the spirit of the Challenge, please (CLARIFICATION: the only 1.25m part usable is the jet fuel tank and associated jet engines and intakes, everything else must be smaller/drone size (very small) rocket parts (hope this is clear!) Things not allowed include any 1.25 meter + rocket parts, and anything that would attach in-line with them - most of the thing would probably bring your rank down anyway! RCS is allowed... any other questions about this bit we'll discuss them )

2) Must take off from the runway.

3) Must be able to achieve LKO, and be able to re-enter the atmosphere land, do barrel rolls and loop the loops.

4) Only Mechjeb and other information mods allowed, no using them to fly the plane (Mechjeb always crashes all of my SSTO's anyhow!)

5) A screenshot of A) Your entry on the runway and A screenshot of the flight statistics (F3) will be the minimum entry requirements, sorry, no videos please as I'm currently stuck on horrible mobile broadband and I won't be able to judge them! (well, you can post video of flight if you want, but they can't be used to judge entries for now...)

6) No use of the Dev console (Infinite fuel, RCS or anything)

7) No crew - exploiting glitches, while interesting, are not in the spirit of the challenge... and in the case of infiniglide, would put your part count way up!

If anyone wants to try it using FAR or anything else that changes atmosphere dynamics, I will set up a separate leaderboard

LEADERBOARDS:

Lowest Weight

(Doing it from the readouts, so please put in tons for ease )

1. Nedal - 0.61 tons

2. tavert - 1.51 tons

3. Red Iron Crown - 1.992 tons

4. cyberklad - 2.048 tons

5.

Fewest Parts

1. Red Iron Crown - 25 parts

2. cyberklad - 34 parts

3.

4.

5.

I will be entering myself, but need to dig out screenshots...

Edited May 12, 2014 by Cmdr. Arn1e
updating scores

[Red Iron Crown]

A probe core, a 48-7S, and an FL-T400 fuel tank makes a three-part SSTO that weighs 2.39tons. If you permitted larger rocket parts, I think an LFB-KR1x2 and a probe core will do it with two parts.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Red Iron Crown

[TarkinLarson]

A probe core, a 48-7S, and a fuel tank makes a three-part SSTO. If you permitted larger rocket parts, an LFB-KR1x2 and a probe core will do it with two.

I have to agree with you here, It's very easy to make a 3 part SSTO as you've said. It will also give you quite a bit of fuel left after you're in LKO too!

What does this mean for the challenge? SSTO does not necessarily mean a 'space plane' so it can be done easily. Should we put wings on it, have to have wheels? Land again on the runway - with our without a parachute?

I'm not actively trying to pull your challenge apart, please don't take my post that way. Perhaps you should add extra points for where you can get to, or DeltaV left over etc?

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

A probe core, a 48-7S, and an FL-T400 fuel tank makes a three-part SSTO that weighs 2.39tons. If you permitted larger rocket parts, I think an LFB-KR1x2 and a probe core will do it with two parts.

hope you are happy now

Edited April 15, 2014 by Cmdr. Arn1e

[Red Iron Crown]

Not seeing anything that disqualifies the three-part design...

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

any better?

[Red Iron Crown]

Pretty sure this qualifies. The thing with minimum mass/part count challenges is that there is usually a minimum design. Changing the rules just modifies that design slightly. If you say it needs to take off horizontally I could just put wheels on it. If you say it needs to have wings a couple of winglets can be added. I'm not trying to cheat your challenge, it's just that a minimum size SSTO is going to be some variant of this design.

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

so how is that getting round the rule "1) Only the smallest rocket parts/fuel tanks can be used"?

I have tried to fly that simple design, and it makes it out of the atmosphere, but fails at circularizing due to running out of electric charge, thus losing control before you want to cut out the engine when done circularizing, so it also doesn't meet the rule "3) Must be able to achieve LKO, and be able to re-enter the atmosphere"

Edited April 15, 2014 by Cmdr. Arn1e

[Red Iron Crown]

Care to define smallest? Which parts are prohibited?

Edit: Guess I need to add a battery or ox-stat.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Red Iron Crown

[xrayfishx]

The fuel tank can be replaced with smaller ones, they all have the same fuel/mass ratio.

Also, ninjad.

[Batz_10K]

Hopefully this qualifies... 3.107 tons, 25 parts.

The HUR-1 SkyHoers

Goes like a bat out of hell though...

On orbit

F3 Screen

Craft

The landing? well usually the kerbal survives...

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

it's cool, but doesn't fit the updated rules, sorry

[John FX]

I have seen a few of these `Do X with the smallest craft` and it always ends up with 3-6 parts (even to Duna return) and under 6T.

I`ve put up challenges similar and they end up... disappointing shall we say (I hoped to see amazing constructs and got only a few variations on one very basic craft)

The best one recently I saw was minimum Dv to Moho.

These days to stretch the abilities of people with a challenge (and to get more than 1 design) it needs to be something like Tylo return or Eve return with the lowest mass and the kerbal/kerbals must be in something like a Mk1-2 pod to stop everyone using either a chair or a ladder...

@redironcrown What Navball mod do you have there? It looks nice.

[Red Iron Crown]

@redironcrown What Navball mod do you have there? It looks nice.

Navball changer with this texture. Much more readable.

On topic, I think the part restrictions the OP has listed makes the challenge more interesting, I think the only 1.25m part usable is the jet fuel tank. I'm going to see what I can put together tonight.

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

That's what I was aiming for - I just couldn't work out how to get the part restrictions into words without involving the huge long list (I could have just listed the parts allowed, I guess...)

I've been struggling to get one of these tiny things into orbit for a while now, since I started building them for the Maching Machine challenges (which I still haven't entered properly yet, I think?!) but I have high hopes for them... Once I can actually get one into orbit, or beyond preferably! I'm happy for people to suggest rules and leaderboards/scoring systems, just post away

[cantab]

Agreed, I think it would be a LOT simpler to list the allowed parts. And if OP wants to go the extra mile, create a save with only them unlocked - I *think* that can be done by editing the file.

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

updated again, hope it's still clear - sleepy now heh!

I look forward to seeing the entries, hopefully should see some interesting little hybrids! Ions are allowed too, so could be useful for de-orbiting/returnng to atmosphere?

[ihtoit]

I have seen a few of these `Do X with the smallest craft` and it always ends up with 3-6 parts (even to Duna return) and under 6T.

I`ve put up challenges similar and they end up... disappointing shall we say (I hoped to see amazing constructs and got only a few variations on one very basic craft)

The best one recently I saw was minimum Dv to Moho.

These days to stretch the abilities of people with a challenge (and to get more than 1 design) it needs to be something like Tylo return or Eve return with the lowest mass and the kerbal/kerbals must be in something like a Mk1-2 pod to stop everyone using either a chair or a ladder...

@redironcrown What Navball mod do you have there? It looks nice.

I take it you missed the Thrust KSC Land Speed Challenge? Someone even made an unbelievably funny "Iron Chef" video series around it!

Also check out the Kerbal Dynamics Railgun which is pretty much a follow-on.

[736]

so how is that getting round the rule "1) Only the smallest rocket parts/fuel tanks can be used"?

I have tried to fly that simple design, and it makes it out of the atmosphere, but fails at circularizing due to running out of electric charge, thus losing control before you want to cut out the engine when done circularizing, so it also doesn't meet the rule "3) Must be able to achieve LKO, and be able to re-enter the atmosphere"

couldn't you just do an earlier gravity turn?

[Pds314]

Not sure it's completely in the spirit, but this does fit the letter of the law.

I have created a stock bicycle Kerbal-on-ladder-powered plane that can get into orbit around Kerbin with no fuel required...

In FAR...

In Real Solar System!!!

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As far as I can tell from casting my powers of sorcery on them, Kerbal-on-ladder forces have 1.8 kN of thrust, 2 G for a Kerbal. This means that the plane has nearly 5 m/s of acceleration (which matches experimental results). This means it should hypothetically be able to go anywhere but Tylo in stock KSP or anywhere in RSS without using fuel. In practice, time-warping usually requires some EVA fuel to get back on, so you'll eventually run out of that (after around 30-40 warps or so). Rest assured, it can fly semi-aerobatically and land at low speeds as a glider.

Weight: 380 kg + 90 kg of Kerbal (not counted by physics engine)

Parts: 17

And yes, the Kerbal had to walk up a ladder for a solid 50 minutes to get into orbit. (Even so, that is something like 1314000% energy efficient).

Edited April 16, 2014 by Pds314

[Redshift OTF]

Wow, awesome discovery and design for that Kerbal ladder plane. I had no idea a Kerbal could generate 2 kn of thrust just by doing step up exercises. I think going up and down that ladder might get a bit boring though.

[Red Iron Crown]

Wow, Newton must be rolling over in his grave at the ladder physics in KSP.

This challenge has reminded me of how poor a spaceplane designer and pilot I am. I put together an entry but I think it will be easily beaten by others.

Stock aero, 25 parts, 3,282kg. It's a tail-sitting VTOL, easily makes orbit with dV to spare for reentry and lots of jet fuel remaining. Does barrel rolls easily, loops are a bit more difficult but possible. The turbojet is overpowered for a craft this light, I had to back off the throttle for part of the ascent to prevent Bad Things from happening. I forgot to get a screenshot of the F3 screen, hope this still qualifies.

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

Wow, Newton must be rolling over in his grave at the ladder physics in KSP.

This challenge has reminded me of how poor a spaceplane designer and pilot I am. I put together an entry but I think it will be easily beaten by others.

Stock aero, 25 parts, 3,282kg. It's a tail-sitting VTOL, easily makes orbit with dV to spare for reentry and lots of jet fuel remaining. Does barrel rolls easily, loops are a bit more difficult but possible. The turbojet is overpowered for a craft this light, I had to back off the throttle for part of the ascent to prevent Bad Things from happening. I forgot to get a screenshot of the F3 screen, hope this still qualifies.

[snip]

Heh, another physics exploit is discovered and shared! Sorry, I've updated the rules - thought barring the use of the pods/cockpits/external seats would stop anyone having a crewed vehicle, but someone has to be clever! I wonder how well that would work alongside infiniglide?! infiniglide to orbit, then ladder to wherever you want... sure someone will play more!

So, current leader is Red Iron Crown, setting the bar for others to try! (no worries about the F3 on this occasion, you have shown you can get it into orbit all future entries will need this though, even myself...)

I have found the same problems, too - too much thrust at certain altitudes and you end up doing barrel rolls and loop-the-loops anyway, so that bit isn't really a challenge, it's recovering and carrying on that is!

not managed to get mine into orbit yet, so I don't even qualify just yet...

[SRV Ron]

A probe core, a 48-7S, and an FL-T400 fuel tank makes a three-part SSTO that weighs 2.39tons. If you permitted larger rocket parts, I think an LFB-KR1x2 and a probe core will do it with two parts.

While not eligible for that challenge, your combo with solar panel, battery and comm, made Mun orbit.

[cyberklad]

This thing has a starter weight of 2249kg. It has 34 parts. It easily gets into orbit with more then enough fuel to get a stable orbit. And return. It is a tail balancing plane, using sas untill it can lift off. Then it can head straight up to 20km before it builds up orbital speeds. It does perfor loops and rolls. And if you throtle all the way up to get max speed at low altitudes. It spins out of controll because the drag from the air intakes gets too much for the controll surfaces. So max stable airspeed is about 200m/s under 10km altitude. The plane takes of with 28 oxidizer.

Edited April 16, 2014 by cyberklad