[1.1.3] Surface Experiment Pack - EVA science for KIS/KAS (v1.4.2 6/30/2016) *Now with less explosions*

[davidy12]

@DMagic: Is there anyway you could make it so we don't need a scientist to analyze it? 
 

Most of Apollo experiments were conducted by Test Pilots. 

[CobaltWolf]

5 hours ago, davidy12 said:

@DMagic: Is there anyway you could make it so we don't need a scientist to analyze it? 
 

Most of Apollo experiments were conducted by Test Pilots. 

Should be able to get minimal science with a pilot... the apollo science would have been so much more productive with dedicated scientists.

[LabRats]

22 hours ago, DMagic said:

I looked into the parts and found a few with attach nodes that didn't quite line up with their collider, the ion detector and gravity, I think. I fixed them, but it wasn't until I moved the nodes much further out from the collider that they would reliably not explode on a slope. So I'm not really sure what has to be done to fix it.

@DMagic, any chance you can share the surface attach lines that you edited, please? Im in the middle of a career mode Mun landing (using life support) that was supposed to use a buggy to do SEP science in 3 biomes. Right now my choices are not play KSP at all, or liftoff without finishing the mission. Im going to try to attach the bugged experiments on top of the central computer in the mean time... probably wont work.

[LabRats]

I found a temporary solution. Place/attach the 3 troublesome parts on top of other parts. Im using the central computer station and 2 KAS containers. Still looking forward to using them the intended way.

A great mod!

Edit: Sorry. That should have been an edit of the previous post. Maybe a mod can combine them.

Edited September 17, 2016 by LabRats
Appology

[Dr.Wolfram]

This mod has a great potencial! I really like it

One noob question (sorry if i missed any description) : did those experiments are rerunnable in different biomes or its only "1 experiment per 1 celestial body"?

[LabRats]

2 hours ago, Dr.Wolfram said:

One noob question (sorry if i missed any description) : did those experiments are rerunnable in different biomes or its only "1 experiment per 1 celestial body"?

Yes. They are rerunnable. I just recently landed a scientist and engineer on the moon. They set up the SEP experiments and ran them all (including a mystery goo). They then assembled USI's Packrat Rover, and loaded all the SEP equipment into a KAS container on the back of the buggy. They then drove to a nearby crater (from Highlands to highland craters) and set up and did their science. They packed up, drove back to the lander, and transferred all the science to the lander and some hard drives from Tarsier Science (the lander couldn't hold it all). They then drove off to another crater (Farside crater) and repeated the process.

Each time I ran the experiments, I transmitted the results and then reran them to collect the data for my orbital science lab. By the time my Snowball lander made it back to the Lunatic station, it had transmitted over 400 science and brought over 800 data to the science lab. It was a lot of work, but also a lot of payoff.

[Dr.Wolfram]

9 hours ago, LabRats said:

Yes. They are rerunnable. I just recently landed a scientist and engineer on the moon. They set up the SEP experiments and ran them all (including a mystery goo). They then assembled USI's Packrat Rover, and loaded all the SEP equipment into a KAS container on the back of the buggy. They then drove to a nearby crater (from Highlands to highland craters) and set up and did their science. They packed up, drove back to the lander, and transferred all the science to the lander and some hard drives from Tarsier Science (the lander couldn't hold it all). They then drove off to another crater (Farside crater) and repeated the process.

Each time I ran the experiments, I transmitted the results and then reran them to collect the data for my orbital science lab. By the time my Snowball lander made it back to the Lunatic station, it had transmitted over 400 science and brought over 800 data to the science lab. It was a lot of work, but also a lot of payoff.

Thanks. That's exactly what i planned to do on Minmuss, but instead of rover just jumping around

[Vaga]

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 11:48 PM, Bombaatu said:

Dunno if this is a bug or a "feature" (aka a bug with seniority), but if the Surface Experiment Package is set up on a Rover (say, the Buffalo flatbed) and connected by an Engineer, and a Scientist is on board the vehicle, then the surface experiments can be run without the Scientist going on EVA. 

Side note: these experiments can be run if attached to a rover....

I think this is because of the patch I helped make for use with remote tech mod.  I expect this will be corrected with 1.2 release of KSP.

[CobaltWolf]

Hrmm... I feel like I'd really prefer they had to be static attached. Obviously that requires the attachment parameters be fixed...

Also, I forgot the Packrat exists. Is there any point in me making an LRV for the mod?

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Hrmm... I feel like I'd really prefer they had to be static attached. Obviously that requires the attachment parameters be fixed...

Also, I forgot the Packrat exists. Is there any point in me making an LRV for the mod?

The more rovers the merrier. 

(And the Packrat doesn't work well with KIS containers - they are slightly to big and heavy.  They can be made to work, but it's a bit awkward.  The Packrat is really best using just it's own parts.  So if you want to do something better, go for it.)

[DMagic]

@LabRats The two that I think I changed were the gravity and ccid (the part config is name ccig for some reason).

The attach node lines that I used are:

For SEP_CCIG:

node_attach = 0.09, -0.02, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 0

For SEP_GRAV:

node_attach = 0.008383751, -0.02, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 0

I think those worked better, but left the parts floating a bit. If they still don't work just reduce the second value, the -0.02. Make very small adjustments, around 0.005 at a time and see what works.

I wasn't able to import the plug part and some of the extender modules into Blender, so I couldn't check their attach points. I've had problems with some of those exploding when trying to attach cables, but it is not repeatable at all, so I don't really know what's going on. I'm not very familiar with the inner workings of KIS, so I can't say much about what could be making things blow up.

 

Also, @davidy12, I think someone asked about non-scientists before, and, yes, I can make so that they can run experiments at a lower level. I will also make sure that module checks for the experience skill (there is a specific skill for external science) rather than just looking at the Kerbal type.

Edited September 19, 2016 by DMagic

[CobaltWolf]

3 minutes ago, DMagic said:

@LabRats The two that I think I changed were the gravity and ccid (the part config is name ccig for some reason).

The attach node lines that I used are:

I think those worked better, but left the parts floating a bit. If they still don't work just reduce the second value, the -0.02. Make very small adjustments, around 0.005 at a time and see what works.

I wasn't able to import the plug part and some of the extender modules into Blender, so I couldn't check their attach points. I've had problems with some of those exploding when trying to attach cables, but it is not repeatable at all, so I don't really know what's going on. I'm not very familiar with the inner workings of KIS, so I can't say much about what could be making things blow up.

Maybe @IgorZ knows more? I think it's mostly an issue with the staticAttach.

[LabRats]

@DMagic Thanks. I can deal with floating parts. I cant deal with exploding parts. I also changed the y component for the Surface magnetometer, since that was exploding too. I just used -0.02

[IgorZ]

On 9/19/2016 at 1:37 PM, CobaltWolf said:

Maybe @IgorZ knows more? I think it's mostly an issue with the staticAttach.

@LabRats Explosion of statically attached parts happens when attach node is improperly set. The perfect node must be exactly on the surface of the part's collider. If it's inside the collider then on attach part will collide with the surface. Depending on the planet gravity and value of the error it may result in explosion (thanks to collision enhancer). If attach node lies outside of the part collider then another problem may happen: the attachment may be broken even by a small force since the part doesn't have good contact with the ground.

[CobaltWolf]

3 hours ago, IgorZ said:

@LabRats Explosion of statically attached parts happens when attach node is improperly set. The perfect node must be exactly on the surface of the part's collider. If it's inside the collider then on attach part will collide with the surface. Depending on the planet gravity and value of the error it may result in explosion (thanks to collision enhancer). If attach node lies outside of the part collider then another problem may happen: the attachment may be broken even by a small force since the part doesn't have good contact with the ground.

... but the parts having issues, I *know* have their attach nodes lines up with the colliders.

[IgorZ]

39 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

... but the parts having issues, I *know* have their attach nodes lines up with the colliders.

In this case we need a bug report with detailed description, screenshots, and logs. It could be a new case of something we don't know yet.

[Freshmeat]

Sorry for not getting back to you, @IgorZ, but I can give some data here:

Setup: Trying to put down several experiments down on Minmus Flats, in each case they explode. In this particular instance I tried to use jetpack pallets to avoid collision with the ground, but the experiments exploded. Output log included here.

EDIT: As others have noted, placing experiments on other objects work. Usually jet pallets work as well, but not here.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Freshmeat

[IgorZ]

On 10/1/2016 at 5:29 AM, Freshmeat said:

Sorry for not getting back to you, @IgorZ, but I can give some data here:

Setup: Trying to put down several experiments down on Minmus Flats, in each case they explode. In this particular instance I tried to use jetpack pallets to avoid collision with the ground, but the experiments exploded. Output log included here.

EDIT: As others have noted, placing experiments on other objects work. Usually jet pallets work as well, but not here.

Cannot load file without account. Could you please make it public?

[Freshmeat]

@IgorZ Sorry for not getting back to you, it simply slipped my mind. Can you try this link?

[Vaga]

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 11:41 PM, CobaltWolf said:

... but the parts having issues, I *know* have their attach nodes lines up with the colliders.

You know Angle125 making the pathfinder mod figured out that KAS does not like more than 1 dedicated port attached (The lines connecting all the experiments.) to an item and has removed extra attachment points from his items.  Seems like you might need a new system designed for the parts to attach or have the system only take one experiment at a time.   Perhaps you could plug the CPU into some kind of base that each experiment can plug into with a green node attachment.

[DMagic]

Maybe, but that doesn't seem to be the problem. I don't think I've ever had issues with the central station and its multiple attachment points. It's the individual parts that have problems, and only when they are attached to the ground. Those only have one cable attach point and one normal attach point.

[IgorZ]

15 hours ago, Freshmeat said:

@IgorZ Sorry for not getting back to you, it simply slipped my mind. Can you try this link?

it's a wrong log. The right one is "KSP.log".

[Freshmeat]

We try again: testcase

KSP.log and a save game made seconds before the incident.

[komodo]

Any chance of getting a copy of the plugin source? I was going to look at seeing what 1.2 had done, but... I am either blind, or it's not in the download/teh githubz. Thanks much!

[Freshmeat]

@komodo DMagic is on the case, but he maintains Scansat, Orbital Science and a few Modlets as well, all of which are already updated.