EmDrive- Modeling Request

[Imaginer1]

The EmDrive is a pretty touchy subject.

The EmDrive is a method of propulsion recently discovered that, if viable, would not require propellant. Only a bunch of electricity. If you like Kerbal Space Program you can see why it would be awesome- it creates the potential for infinite delta-v with a nice solar panel array.

Now, I'm not gonna talk about the physics of how it works (because it's very complicated and scientists are still trying to figure it out) but I wanted to make a KSP part for it! There are various researchers that have implemented the EmDrive to varying degrees of success, but my part is going to be based off the data taken from this paper and maybe this one and lastly, the most important one actually done by NASA.

Taking a real life ion drive and comparing the statistics of them with the ion drive ingame, and with the EmDrive as observed in this paper, I want to make a KSP part! I can do the coding for the part, but I'm wondering if anyone could make the model for it? If not, I can probably just use the model for the ion engine or small rockomax engine.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Imaginer1
added another possible citation

[nli2work]

KSP Interstellar.

[Imaginer1]

KSP interstellar doesn't have an EmDrive. It has a warp drive but that isn't the same thing.

The EmDrive is essentially an ion drive with no propellant. It doesn't have an OP amount of thrust and you don't need to spend hours harvesting dark matter to discover it and it isn't made for FTL or even relativistic travel. Either you don't understand KSP interstellar or you don't understand what I want from this mod I'm making.

I'm just asking for someone to make a model that looks like the picture, alright?

Edited August 11, 2014 by Imaginer1

[KAO]

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/forums/13-Add-on-Requests-and-Support

there is a subforum for modelling requests

[passinglurker]

Interstellar does have quantum vacuum thrusters which allow you to run off straight electrical power. It takes the form of an upgrade for another part later in the techtree

[Imaginer1]

Ok, I stand corrected...

But either way I kinda want to make it myself? So I have it without all the extra stuff that Interstellar has, and so that I can actually learn something about modding. And maybe other people want that, too- something way simpler so you can see what the EmDrive is like without doing everything in the Interstellar mod.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Imaginer1

[nli2work]

why reinvent the wheel?

[passinglurker]

For personal modding and experimenting this is an easy config edit. Just add a generator module to the ion engine and have it produce xenon(see the RTG part for an example) from there its just tweaking the numbers till you feel its practical yet balanced. I would recommend you make backups of all part.cfg files you plan on editing or learn how to use module manger.

[Imaginer1]

why reinvent the wheel?

Comparing a quantum vacuum thruster with a wheel, huh?

But really it is more complicated than a wheel, it's like a drawing. A drawing that I'm copying to practice, because I'm a bad artist. Do you understand? I feel you're being excessively condescending and it's making me uncomfortable. Do you want me to apologize for thinking others might have taken interest in such a mod? By your own words in another thread the interest exists ('at least a dozen threads must have started about it since the news broke...' or something).

Please read what I wrote before:

'maybe other people want that, too- something way simpler so you can see what the EmDrive is like without doing everything in the Interstellar mod.'

For personal modding and experimenting this is an easy config edit. Just add a generator module to the ion engine and have it produce xenon(see the RTG part for an example) from there its just tweaking the numbers till you feel its practical yet balanced. I would recommend you make backups of all part.cfg files you plan on editing or learn how to use module manger.

What I did was take numbers from various papers and scale them compared to a real life ion engine and the ingame ion engine, so I would have a more physically accurate one (if the papers themselves are physically accurate, that is)

Oh, and I forgot to link the new thread and I made consecutive posts, I'm using such bad etiquette :X

Edited August 11, 2014 by Imaginer1
Consolidated consecutive replies by the same poster

[sumghai]

[MOD - Duplicate thread removed - please keep all EmDrive-related post to one thread, to consolidate discussions.]

[nli2work]

Comparing a quantum vacuum thruster with a wheel, huh?

But really it is more complicated than a wheel, it's like a drawing. A drawing that I'm copying to practice, because I'm a bad artist. Do you understand? I feel you're being excessively condescending and it's making me uncomfortable. Do you want me to apologize for thinking others might have taken interest in such a mod? By your own words in another thread the interest exists ('at least a dozen threads must have started about it since the news broke...' or something).

Please read what I wrote before:

'maybe other people want that, too- something way simpler so you can see what the EmDrive is like without doing everything in the Interstellar mod.'

Yes, there's been at least a dozen, probably 2 dozen, threads asking for this thing in the last couple of weeks. EmDrive, Quantum Vacuum Plasma Drive, Cannea drive... etc. My point is KSPI already made what you are asking for, very well I would add, in all aspects.

And no, you don't have to apologize for anything.

Edited August 11, 2014 by nli2work

[Darren9]

Yes, there's been at least a dozen, probably 2 dozen, threads asking for this thing in the last couple of weeks. EmDrive, Quantum Vacuum Plasma Drive, Cannea drive... etc. My point is KSPI already made what you are asking for, very well I would add, in all aspects.

And no, you don't have to apologize for anything.

There was already jet engines, rockets, pods, cockpits, wings, struts and even resource mining/collection, and then people made more of them still to do the same thing with a different model. I can't see why your in this thread with "been done" negativity and not practically every other release.

[nli2work]

perhaps the frequency at which this particular engine has been requested in such a short period made me more inclined to be negative toward it.

[Imaginer1]

perhaps the frequency at which this particular engine has been requested in such a short period made me more inclined to be negative toward it.

But it hasn't been delivered. At this rate I'll just learn how to make my own models and release it myself.

[philotical]

why reinvent the wheel?

I think "because I can" would be a valid answer..

..last time I checked, there was no approval needed to make a mod..

don't like it? - move on!

It's as simple as that.

[CptRichardson]

Actually, the EM drive has been shown to have a thrust to power ratio about seven times better than a Hall thruster in Nasa's tests. So... yeah, this thing would actually be a pretty respectable drive system as you could literally straight-line thrust to anywhere in the system and reasonably expect to get there. (Once you clear Earth's atmosphere, that is.)

And, they expect to be able to double the thrust with superconducting tech, which would make this thing pretty freaking OP. Of course, we like that. It makes SCIENCE! easy.

[passinglurker]

actually the superconducting idea could bring it back into balance. basically make the engine run off coolant as its fuel.

[Xentoe]

The EM Drive is no quantum Vakuum Drive.

It is a simple Radiation Impulse Converter. (That is not meaned bad, that is cool. I want only ay that it`s functionprincip is simple elegant)

Study it`s functiondesign.

There is no Quantummechanics or Vacuum Energy involved.

[drmike]

I got the patent application for the EmDrive (GB 2493361). It describes a section of a sphere inside a superconducting chamber. I have attempted to find an analytical solution to the EM wave in the cavity. It consists of spherical bessel functions in radial direction and Legendre polynomials in polar angle. It is axially symmetric so there is no axial function. The patent application describes the inner radius as "cut off" and the outer radius as "free space" - the patent author appears to assume the cavity acts like a pipe rather than a cone. There is no description to the angle on the cone, but the solutions to the standing wave show that only specific angles will give non zero solutions. The argument the author gives is that the inner radius has group velocity zero and the outer radius has group velocity near c - but since it is a cavity it has a standing wave and that makes no sense. If anyone else has worked out the math I'd love to compare notes.

Dr. mike

[Imaginer1]

I have the coding done for it, given the stats of an ion drive in existence and the stats given by an article in Eureka Magazine et al. It currently uses the xenon tank and mini rockomax engine as models, and uses a resource called MicrowaveRadiation. (I didn't want to use XenonGas because then it could be exploited for infinite free xenon, and it wasn't difficult so it adds to the immersion...? i guess)

Some people here are talking about this like it's a 100% true thing but I've heard there's a lot of controversy around it.

I've downloaded a 3d modeling program but realize it can't read .mu files; which ones can?

Unrelated: I'm thinking about using this kind of thing to make a solar sail- using the solar panels coding on sun exposure and using it to produce a little thrust with some buffer resource.

Edit @Drmike:

Forgive me if I'm way wrong, but could the distance traveled by the groups in these areas be changing your calculations? i'm pretty sure the waves wouldn't be traveling exclusively up and down the cavity but surely the geometry of it could change something?

Nevermind. I'm not making sense.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Imaginer1

[Scarsz]

If your still looking for a model I could make you one. I can't have it done until Wednesday or Thursday due to internet issues but I would be happy to help. :-)

[Imaginer1]

That's super nice, yeah!

If you want, I've just started learning how to make the models... If you want you could do the texture instead? ^^;

Edited addition:

This is incredibly difficult. I made a model and got it ingame but it's the wrong size (even though I made sure to size it according to the rockomax engine) and the collision mesh doesn't quite work (even though it should) and I can't get the texture working- and to be honest I wouldn't know how, since, like, once you make the unwrapped UV and it goes into the directory how does the model 'know' it's the texture?

Edited August 12, 2014 by Imaginer1

[Scarsz]

I would be happy to texture it for you. U habe had similar issues to you before. Are your using unity to make the .mu or straight from your modelling program? If it is the latter you need to switch over to unity and parttools. If it is the first option I would be happy to set up the model and textures in unity for you as well.

[Imaginer1]

Oh Gosh. Scarsz, I haven't been using Unity at all. Which is probably very frowned upon. I've been exporting the model as a .dae from Blender.

I'm getting Unity right now.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Imaginer1

[Reign Of Magic]

Make sure that if you want to do animations of emissives to get a Unity 3 version. Unity 4 is a whole lot harder/imposibler to do animations and emissives on. At least from my experience. But unity 4 is far simpler to use if you are not using unity made animations or emissives.