[1.2.2] Stock Part Revamp, Update 1.9.6. Released Source Files!

[Whirligig Girl]

Originally I liked the change of the Poodle to the Service Engine. But now, especially with a new nuclear engine named poodle, it can be very very confusing, especially to people who don't play with your pack (even though they should). So I now really think, Ven, that you should rename the Rockomax Service Engine the Rockomax Poodle, and rename the Nuclear Poodle as Rockomax Atomic Engine or something else. Point is the Service Engine needs the name Poodle.

[somnambulist]

So I now really think, Ven, that you should rename the Rockomax Service Engine the Rockomax Poodle, and rename the Nuclear Poodle as Rockomax Atomic Engine or something else. Point is the Service Engine needs the name Poodle.

Change the nuclear engine to 'Pudel' -- 'u' for 'uranium'. (Plus poodle comes from pudelhund anyways.)

[Avalon304]

You need to place batch file to GameData directory & run it from there. NOT within this mod directory. Works like a charm.

Doesnt seem to work. I have placed it in the root KSP directory and I have placed it with in GameData, and no matter what Ive done, when I start KSP I still see it loading Squad assets. So Id like to just overwrite the Squad stuff with this stuff, because this stuff is better.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Avalon304

[RainDreamer]

I kind of feel the nuclear poodle engine is kind of OP. Just a feeling, because I know the stat isn't that good, and the energy generation is lower than stock RTG, but it still feels like I should use it instead of others of its class for its awesome free energy without additional extra parts and mass. Maybe I will try to patch it to use liquid hydrogen once NFP is updated along with LV-N. Anyone think LV-N should get a built in RTG too?

[passinglurker]

Originally I liked the change of the Poodle to the Service Engine. But now, especially with a new nuclear engine named poodle, it can be very very confusing, especially to people who don't play with your pack (even though they should). So I now really think, Ven, that you should rename the Rockomax Service Engine the Rockomax Poodle, and rename the Nuclear Poodle as Rockomax Atomic Engine or something else. Point is the Service Engine needs the name Poodle.

according to this "Poodle" is actually a rather appropriate name for nuclear engine with a built in RTG

[Whirligig Girl]

according to this "Poodle" is actually a rather appropriate name for nuclear engine with a built in RTG

Yes, I know of this, but they already have a name for the Rockomax Service Engine, and that name is "The Poodle." It's confusing.

[BudgetHedgehog]

'Poodle' is a rubbish name, both in real life and KSP - I'm glad I don't have to encounter its silliness as much as I did before. To me, it's as ludicrous as Rocketdyne calling a new engine the Gerbil or a new Aerojet Scooter or something...

[passinglurker]

Yes, I know of this, but they already have a name for the Rockomax Service Engine, and that name is "The Poodle." It's confusing.

As a wise modder who I was debating the subject of mineable xenon with once said... "That's what MM is for"

@PART[liquidEngine2-2]:Final
{    
    @title = Rockomax "Poodle" Liquid Engine
}

[burz21]

How exactly would I go about removing the fairings? For some reason they don't decouple for me and I use Procedural Fairings anyway. I looked through the ModuleManager config and only found this:

{       name = ModuleJettison
       jettisonName = fairing
       bottomNodeName = bottom
       isFairing = False
       jettisonedObjectMass = 0.1
       jettisonForce = 5
       jettisonDirection = 0 0 1
	}

Removing it doesn't seem to remove the fairings and the line is not present for every engine although it shows up on each one in game. Great mod by the way, made using stock parts bearable as they used to look hideous

Regards,

James

[squizzeak]

Would it be possible for a future version of the revamp to include the fixed shaders Kronal provided at http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/1229 ? Doesn't appear that squad has paid much attention to the original report and it'd be a nice visual enhancement to the somewhat bugged out stock clamps.

Thanks!

- Todd

[bac9]

Would it be possible for a future version of the revamp to include the fixed shaders Kronal provided at http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/1229 ? Doesn't appear that squad has paid much attention to the original report and it'd be a nice visual enhancement to the somewhat bugged out stock clamps.

Thanks!

- Todd

Reading the description, I doubt it's a good idea. Changing the shader to alpha-tested instead of properly transparent allows shadow casting, but will break semi-transparent editor rendering mode that helps during craft assembly. Aside from that, stock Unity shaders do not contain proper rim lighting code, so that breaks all highlighting, including highlighting on picking up, highlighting on editor selection, highlighting used by FAR, and so on.

[HawkW]

How exactly would I go about removing the fairings? For some reason they don't decouple for me

Yeah, I'm having this issue as well. When I place an engine, it has a fairing around it, even if there's no decoupler stacked underneath, and the fairings don't automatically jettison. It's kind of annoying. Anyone know a fix?

[Whirligig Girl]

Okay, so now I've stopped being awestruck by the beauty of the parts (and they really are beautiful), so now I will compile a list of all the people's criticisms, including my own.

This all essentially stems out from the fact that it's not really "Stock" anymore. And I don't mean the extra parts. And I don't even mean the models, although there are a few ridiculous changes here. Keep in mind for the most part all of these models are truly great.

1. The Mainsail has lost it's gimbal. Really, why did you do this? This is a gameplay change, and it's a rather bad one at that. No parts should be changed in functionality by this mod, especially without it being mentioned. NO PARTS SHOULD BE CHANGED OTHER THAN THE MODEL. THIS IS THE ONLY THING IN CAPS BECAUSE IT MATTERS THE MOST I've got at least 5 other people who agree with this.

2. You renamed the Poodle. This is just... confusing. It is! This leads to a whole lot of confusion with what to call it to players who do not use the revamp. This definitely needs to be fixed. Adding a new engine called the Poodle only makes this worse. "So I gotta use the poodle" "Wait, that's not a poodle..." "Yeah it is, Ven's revamp is weird." -Discussion between me and a friend. And to be clear, the model for the Service Engine/Poodle is really awesome, but the name change is confusing. At least, we should have no engine named Poodle. One thing which I like to do sometimes when I want to use a silly name in a context of a device or contraption, I add numbers and/or mispell it. My Soy-Juice from the HGR mod is actually called the SoYJu1CE spacecraft. Perhaps Rockomax "P-00D-L3" Liquid Fueled Rocket Motor would sound better.

3. The RT-10's model really doesn't fit. Yes, there are real SRBs with four nozzles, but a Jebediah Kerman Junkyard can o' Boom ought not look like a NASA SRB. It's paint scheme really gives that effect, it looks just like the bottom of the Kerbodyne SRB. I don't like that. So here's what I suggest: Yellow painting and a single nozzle.

4. FL-T800 tank is not stripey anymore. This is pretty minor, but I really do miss my stripey tanks. It doesn't really matter, but the description hasn't even been changed.

5. The Mk1-2 Heatshield from Deadly Re-Entry doesn't fit well at all. And on 1.25m stack, the capsule looks like it's floating above the attachment node. Yes, I know the latter can be fixed with gizmos, but the heatshield just won't look quite right. IIRC, there was a heatshield planned for the Mk1-2 pod, yes?

In conclusion, this needs to be more stock. It should really only change the models and maybe add some extra visual-only features. (TextureReplacer reflections and Command Pod windows lights.)

Here's a few ways to fix these problems in a way which would make everyone happy.

1. Change the whole mod. This would be the simplest for users, but might not make everyone happy.

2. Create a separate pack which rebalances things under the assumption that it's no longer a true "stock" revamp. This would allow greater changes to parts to be made, rebalances and renamings would be perfectly fine.

And all of this said, it's still miles better than stock parts for almost everything.

Edited January 3, 2015 by GregroxMun
Criticism of a criticism can only lead to improvement of the latter criticism.

[Ziff]

2. You renamed the Poodle. This is just... wow. Seriously? This leads to a whole lot of confusion with what to call it to players who do not use the revamp. This definitely needs to be fixed. Adding a new engine called the Poodle only makes this worse.

I actually like the fact that the poodle is renamed. The poodle was such a stupid name that really didn't convey anything. If you want to change it back it's easy enough to change in the part file.

4. FL-T800 tank is not stripey anymore. This is pretty minor, but I really do miss my stripey tanks.

Uh. Then just don't install the FL-T800 tank?

So yeah. This needs to be more stock. It should really only change the models and maybe add some extra visual-only features. (TextureReplacer reflections and Command Pod windows lights.)

I disagree, I really like all the changes above the textures and I hope Ven continues to improve parts. You can always choose not to install parts you don't like or change things in a way you disagree with.

[Whirligig Girl]

I actually like the fact that the poodle is renamed. The poodle was such a stupid name that really didn't convey anything. If you want to change it back it's easy enough to change in the part file.

Uh. Then just don't install the FL-T800 tank?

I disagree, I really like all the changes above the textures and I hope Ven continues to improve parts. You can always choose not to install parts you don't like or change things in a way you disagree with.

It's worth noting I've got at LEAST 5 people in agreement. Also in agreement with the fact that the mod is fantastic and wonderful!

Poodle rename is still too confusing.

If I don't install the FL-T800 tank, then it won't have an orange bulkhead.

I like the textures for the most part, they are all improvements.

Edited January 13, 2015 by GregroxMun
What? There's no misquoting here.

[Starwaster]

I disagree, I really like all the changes above the textures and I hope Ven continues to improve parts. You can always choose not to install parts you don't like or change things in a way you disagree with.

Now that's just sad that a person can't provide feedback without this kind of response.

I do think his feedback was a little rougher than it needed to be, but surely you can provide a better response than just 'don't install it if you don't like it'. But you shouldn't suppress feedback like that.

[passinglurker]

Look ma I'm critiquing a critique!

Okay, so now I've stopped being awestruck by the beauty of the parts, so now I will compile a list of all the people's criticisms, including my own.

This all essentially stems out from the fact that it's not really "Stock" anymore. And I don't mean the extra parts. And I don't even mean the models, although there are a few ridiculous changes here. Keep in mind for the most part all of these models are truly great.

1. The Mainsail has lost it's gimbal. Really, why did you do this? This is a gameplay change, and it's a rather bad one at that. No parts should be changed in functionality by this mod, especially without it being mentioned. Really. NO PARTS SHOULD BE CHANGED OTHER THAN THE MODEL. I've got at least 5 other people who agree with this.

Ven's made the engines he's redone Gimbal in a fairly realistic fashion with animated hinges, and pistons if you look closely you'll see for whatever reason the new mainsail model lacks this hardware hence why its not configured to Gimbal. On another note while feedback and criticism are facts of life demanding caps lock shouting isn't cool.

2. You renamed the Poodle. This is just... wow. Seriously? This leads to a whole lot of confusion with what to call it to players who do not use the revamp. This definitely needs to be fixed. Adding a new engine called the Poodle only makes this worse.

I've never seen any vocal love for the poodle until it was taken away(it was regarded by many as dumb named and silly looking) so you can't really blame him for giving it a more drastic makeover. At least not blame him to the point of dropping a "wow. seriously?" as if he committed some obvious and heinous screw up. Its a name something that is purely cosmetic. Its not that big of a deal.

3. The RT-10's model really doesn't fit. Yes, there are real SRBs with four nozzles, but a Jebediah kerman Junkyard can o' Boom ought not look like a NASA SRB. It's paint scheme really gives that effect, it looks just like the bottom of the Kerbodyne SRB. I don't like that. So here's what I suggest. Yellow painting and a single nozzle.

Again cosmetics as long as it looks good who cares if it matches your interpretation of kerbal lore? I'd take more of an issue at adding gimbals, but that's because I've gotten into a habit of making whole first stages out of these things which can make gravity turns "fun" when your only early game torque is a command pod and so suddenly going to a gimbal'd version seems cheaty to me personally because of how I am used to playing, but I can't really expect ven to add a single nozzel no-gimbal version for the start node and push the gimbal'd version back later in the tree just for my play habits sake so I'd either deal with it or someday work some simple MM magic to fix it myself. Really that's the point of it all the old rt-10 assets are still there just turn them back on yourself and share your MM config for others sake's.

4. FL-T800 tank is not stripey anymore. This is pretty minor, but I really do miss my stripey tanks.

If its minor then why is it on the list?

5. The Mk1-2 Heatshield from Deadly Re-Entry doesn't fit well at all. And on 1.25m stack, the capsule looks like it's floating above the attachment node.

offset gizmo

So yeah. This needs to be more stock. It should really only change the models and maybe add some extra visual-only features. (TextureReplacer reflections and Command Pod windows lights.)

I sir respectfully disagree with the strongness of the tone you have taken concerning the issues you have brought up. while some of these topics are indeed controversial, and I'm sure everyone would like Ven to explain his gimbal assignment logic you can stand to be a little more mellow about acquiring these answers.

[Whirligig Girl]

Changing the gimbal of the engine is still not okay. That's one thing I shall not be changing my stance about. Some of the other things are eh, but changing something so that it is not actually a stock part anymore is too far. And the model for the Poodle is brilliant. It's the rename I disagree with. Yes, the name is a bit silly, but it's confusing to change it.

[passinglurker]

Changing the gimbal of the engine is still not okay. That's one thing I shall not be changing my stance about.

@PART[liquidEngine1-2]:Final
{ 
	MODULE[ModuleGimbal] {
		gimbalTransformName = thrustTransform
		gimbalRange = 1

}
}

Some of the other things are eh, but changing something so that it is not actually a stock part anymore is too far. And the model for the Poodle is brilliant. It's the rename I disagree with. Yes, the name is a bit silly, but it's confusing to change it.

again...

@PART[liquidEngine2-2]:Final
{    
    @title = Rockomax "Poodle" Liquid Engine
}

you are entitled to your opinions just watch your volume/capslock just because no one can hear you scream in space doesn't mean the same applies to the internet

[Ven]

Okay, so now I've stopped being awestruck by the beauty of the parts (and they really are beautiful), so now I will compile a list of all the people's criticisms, including my own.

This all essentially stems out from the fact that it's not really "Stock" anymore. And I don't mean the extra parts. And I don't even mean the models, although there are a few ridiculous changes here. Keep in mind for the most part all of these models are truly great.

1. The Mainsail has lost it's gimbal. Really, why did you do this? This is a gameplay change, and it's a rather bad one at that. No parts should be changed in functionality by this mod, especially without it being mentioned. NO PARTS SHOULD BE CHANGED OTHER THAN THE MODEL. THIS IS THE ONLY THING IN CAPS BECAUSE IT MATTERS THE MOST I've got at least 5 other people who agree with this.

2. You renamed the Poodle. This is just... confusing. It is! This leads to a whole lot of confusion with what to call it to players who do not use the revamp. This definitely needs to be fixed. Adding a new engine called the Poodle only makes this worse. "So I gotta use the poodle" "Wait, that's not a poodle..." "Yeah it is, Ven's revamp is weird." -Discussion between me and a friend. And to be clear, the model for the Service Engine/Poodle is really awesome, but the name change is confusing. At least, we should have no engine named Poodle. One thing which I like to do sometimes when I want to use a silly name in a context of a device or contraption, I add numbers and/or mispell it. My Soy-Juice from the HGR mod is actually called the SoYJu1CE spacecraft. Perhaps Rockomax "P-00D-L3" Liquid Fueled Rocket Motor would sound better.

3. The RT-10's model really doesn't fit. Yes, there are real SRBs with four nozzles, but a Jebediah Kerman Junkyard can o' Boom ought not look like a NASA SRB. It's paint scheme really gives that effect, it looks just like the bottom of the Kerbodyne SRB. I don't like that. So here's what I suggest: Yellow painting and a single nozzle.

4. FL-T800 tank is not stripey anymore. This is pretty minor, but I really do miss my stripey tanks. It doesn't really matter, but the description hasn't even been changed.

5. The Mk1-2 Heatshield from Deadly Re-Entry doesn't fit well at all. And on 1.25m stack, the capsule looks like it's floating above the attachment node. Yes, I know the latter can be fixed with gizmos, but the heatshield just won't look quite right. IIRC, there was a heatshield planned for the Mk1-2 pod, yes?

In conclusion, this needs to be more stock. It should really only change the models and maybe add some extra visual-only features. (TextureReplacer reflections and Command Pod windows lights.)

Here's a few ways to fix these problems in a way which would make everyone happy.

1. Change the whole mod. This would be the simplest for users, but might not make everyone happy.

2. Create a separate pack which rebalances things under the assumption that it's no longer a true "stock" revamp. This would allow greater changes to parts to be made, rebalances and renamings would be perfectly fine.

And all of this said, it's still miles better than stock parts for almost everything.

1. Yes, I agree with this. I added that at the last minute so it'd make sense with the model.
   
2. The Poodle is a weird case. The current name is extremely apt for its current form, but it is confusing to the uninniated. Perhaps I should rename the new engine to the Gerbil...
   
3. The rt-10 isn't set in stone, and is subject to change. I hate doing SRBs.
   
4. Due to the way the textures and models were made, I can't add any details like that without it also being pasted over the other tanks. If I add more tanks in the future, then it'd be fairly easy to have stripes on this tank, but as is I have to keep moving. The Iva instruments aren't going to finish themselves.
   
5. I scrapped the mk1 and 1-2pods. So now they'll look leagues better then the current models. I also added those fairings that some were asking for. Along with something that'll .... off several people, but it solves the heatshield problem before it even begins.
   

[Captain Sierra]

@Ven, let it be known that some of us do in fact appreciate the additional challenge of the mainsail gimbal (but you do need to warn people of that). It actually adds a bit of challenge to orbiting big heavy stuff (once I figured out why my rocket wasn't flying straight). Couple this onto me using modified 1.25m engines (my LV30 puts out 375kN) designed to be clustered for heavy lift rockets and the like. I eventually solved that problem by clustering 6 LV45s. A latter iteration used a skipper with 2 LV30s mounted gemini style, though I did have to bump up from LFBs to SRBs for a bit more TWR on the pad.

[passinglurker]

1. Yes, I agree with this. I added that at the last minute so it'd make sense with the model.
   
2. The Poodle is a weird case. The current name is extremely apt for its current form, but it is confusing to the uninniated. Perhaps I should rename the new engine to the Gerbil...
   
3. The rt-10 isn't set in stone, and is subject to change. I hate doing SRBs.
   
4. Due to the way the textures and models were made, I can't add any details like that without it also being pasted over the other tanks. If I add more tanks in the future, then it'd be fairly easy to have stripes on this tank, but as is I have to keep moving. The Iva instruments aren't going to finish themselves.
   
5. I scrapped the mk1 and 1-2pods. So now they'll look leagues better then the current models. I also added those fairings that some were asking for. Along with something that'll .... off several people, but it solves the heatshield problem before it even begins.
   

1. and so the biggest mystery has been solved everyone in the audience can stop feeling guilty about turning the gimbal back on now

2. hmmm... the original real life poodle was a refrence to project rover... I think we still need a dog name... Corgi! cause you know its short and cute and awesome in every way.

3. I for one like the new paint job it matches well with the scheme laid out by the SRB-KD25k and and gives the impression of a more uniform space program. The number of nozzles is irrelevant to me especially now that it has a fairing which is something the old rt-10 lacked. Something could be said about early access to a cheap high thrust gimbal, but career is hard now so I'll likely get over any cheaty feelings I have.

4. If you do make more fueltanks is a fl-t1600 on the list? anything smaller than that just seems a tad to small for the likes of the lv-t30 and lv-t45.

5. as long as its not hauling around unwanted ablative shielding weight cause I don't use DRE I think I'll be able to not be rendered "off'd"

[Galane]

A model and texture only revamp would be nice. Altering the masses, functionality etc makes it a parts mod, not a stock revamp.

[passinglurker]

nothing in the definition of the word "revamp" says he needs to leave the mechanics of stock alone. As long as the parts fit in the same places without explosions from colliders making out it can be considered to work as advertised.

[RainDreamer]

Should the LV-N gets a generator bonus like the small poodle now? About to install near future propulsion, probably will modify the small poodle to use liquid hydrogen, and thinking I might as well add the generator to stock LV-N.

Would that be too OP?