Ongoing Warming Of Intermediate Waters Releases Additional Methane From Seabed Seeps

[rtxoff]

Humanity triggered a process that is not going to be stoppable anymore. Methane is one of the most potent greenhouse gases. It's not about CO2 anymore, it's about the vicious circle that was started by it.

http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v7/n9/full/ngeo2232.html

[sgt_flyer]

Well, if i had read correctly the link you provided, they estimate the majority of seepages to be ongoing since 1000+ years - and it only spread a bit because intermediate waters were becoming hotter - so we have here a mostly natural cycle, which was maybe accelerated a bit by recent years activities - but for the majority of the old seepages, it's not something we can control on such vast scales.

I think the various wetlands (marshes and such) can generate even more methane (more concentrated biomasses, and less ways to trap the methane - as in deep sea high pressures and temperatures - which limits the 'aeras' where this phenomena can occur) - though as they also are biologically rich, acting on them might have even worse effects.

Edited September 11, 2014 by sgt_flyer

[bsalis]

Well, when the oceans warm, they release more CO2 as well.

Question is, if such a positive feedback loop exists. How has the climate been stable for so long.

[lajoswinkler]

Well, when the oceans warm, they release more CO2 as well.

Question is, if such a positive feedback loop exists. How has the climate been stable for so long.

Atmosphere+biosphere+hydrosphere can manage natural processes because there are numerous negative feedback loops in it. Digging out coal and oil and burning enormous amounts of it in only 200 years is not something this system can manage without huge changes. It's something which doesn't happen naturally. Fossil fuels stay in the ground.

There isn't a significant possibility of total destruction by positive feedback loop (like on Venus) because we're far too away from the Sun. One of the basic negative feedback loops (high albedo of water clouds) can protect us from getting too much heat.

However, between climate 200 years ago and Venus there is a wide area of all kinds of climates humans can't tolerate or simply have trouble with. Just look at the climate in some African countries. It's dreadful and has been stopping certain societies to evolve socially and economically. It's too damn hot and sultry so people can't do anything.

Now imagine a world where such dreadful climate exists in Europe and USA. World economy would be in huge trouble. That's where we're probably heading. Luckily for us, no one on this forum will live to see it because it takes a while to develop.

[Dominatus]

It's funny. In the other pollution thread currently being discussed, I warned about this. Two days ago I said it would happen. And now look at it. Man, it has never sucked so much to be right. :/

There is a ton of methane beneath the sea floor. Previously it was being released in minute quantities but now things have sped up. Remember, our current land masses were once ocean, the ocean floor once landmass. How much methane is there? It is estimated at a lot. This may just be game over...

[sgt_flyer]

It depends on what timescale you look - over several thousands years, climate was never stable.

http://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Holocene_Temperature_Variations.png

If we look at Antartica's ice volumes (in the ice age temperature charts on the same page - beware, the 'amount of ice' is reversed, to help matching it with the temperature deltas), we can see that ice volumes have already been as low as today several times in history over the last 450 thousand years - and it 's with a pretty amazing regularity. (And current day temps in vostok or antartica are much less spiky than for previous 'warm' periods)

All in all, we might have been disturbing natural cycles differently than what we commonly think off - if we 'halt' glaciations, it might have other repercussions (also bad)

All in all - we will sooner or later be forced to adapt to one outcome or another, through technological or evolution means) or disappear - while nature will outlive us.

Nature already survived through nuclear winters after all... - it'll be difficult to do ourselves - killing ourselves because we created a situation we can't adapt to, however, is another much more plausible matter

If we want to try to strike conciousness, maybe we should try to appeal to humanity's selfishness don't say we will destroy nature, but that we will destroy ourselves

Edited September 11, 2014 by sgt_flyer

[shynung]

I'm not sure whether I should be worried or relieved. Methane is a usable fuel, which means there's fuel seeping from from the seabed. Yes, it's a greenhouse gas, but if we can somehow capture it, it'd be less of a curse.

[magnemoe]

Well, when the oceans warm, they release more CO2 as well.

Question is, if such a positive feedback loop exists. How has the climate been stable for so long.

Climate has not been stable, far colder 300 years ago, far warmer 3000 years ago, then very cold 10.000 year ago.

Any positive feedback look who is on hair trigger and will kill us all is fake as it would have trigged long ago.

Self limited positive feedback loops, either local ones or limited in effect is common.

[magnemoe]

I'm not sure whether I should be worried or relieved. Methane is a usable fuel, which means there's fuel seeping from from the seabed. Yes, it's a greenhouse gas, but if we can somehow capture it, it'd be less of a curse.

Might be too spread out in a too thin layer to harvested like gas fields, still its an interesting idea.

[lajoswinkler]

Let me put this here...

-snip-

And we're taking a crapload of species with us, too.

Edited September 12, 2014 by KasperVld
Mind the language!

[-Velocity-]

Humans don't seem likely to die out to me- we're too adaptable. However, our current civilization can certainly collapse to varying degrees. We need to ensure that we always have knowledge backed up in ways that can be read without electricity.

[magnemoe]

Humans don't seem likely to die out to me- we're too adaptable. However, our current civilization can certainly collapse to varying degrees. We need to ensure that we always have knowledge backed up in ways that can be read without electricity.

yes we are very adaptable, few other species thrives in as many ecosystems, from deserts to jungles, small islands and into the arctic.

In short the cockroach would go extinct long before us.

Civilization is also far more resistant than most believe, also looks like richer and more advanced civilizations are better on surviving than poor and backward ones.

Probably as they have more resources and that anybody who manage to take over will prefer to keep it.

[KerikBalm]

Prepare for the Permian Extinction part deux.

While I think Humans could survive due to our adaptability (name any other species that lives in deserts and the arctic, coasts and mountains)... we may have a massive population reduction, which could start wars, and if it goes nuclear... then we might be pretty screwed.

[DJEN]

Oh, just condemn yourselves to the bowels of your thoughts, never to emerge again.

Condemn the ecosystem, too. Humans need to stop caring about things that matter less and care about things that matter more.

That is, they're very subjective.

Edited September 12, 2014 by DJEN

[KerikBalm]

What are you even trying to say?

[Sky_walker]

yes we are very adaptable, few other species thrives in as many ecosystems, from deserts to jungles, small islands and into the arctic.

In short the cockroach would go extinct long before us.

I'm quite sure that cockroaches would live as long as we do.

The highest density of cockroach population is always in centres of a human population.

[magnemoe]

I'm quite sure that cockroaches would live as long as we do.

The highest density of cockroach population is always in centres of a human population.

However no cockroaches in Norway or Sweden, probably also true in all areas with serious winter but lots of humans where. Plenty of rats, think they share more ecological niches with us.

[rtxoff]

And i am sure that some rad hardened and mutated giant cocroaches will survive us

Edit: I think i am gonna play a game of Fallout New Vegas.

[magnemoe]

And i am sure that some rad hardened and mutated giant cocroaches will survive us

Yes, they are better at surviving radiation however where will you get all the radiation from?

[Dkmdlb]

Just look at the climate in some African countries. It's dreadful and has been stopping certain societies to evolve socially and economically.

I really don't think the climate can be held responsible for the devastation there. There are lots of places where it's hot as hades but the economy has developed just fine.

[lajoswinkler]

I really don't think the climate can be held responsible for the devastation there. There are lots of places where it's hot as hades but the economy has developed just fine.

Of course, it's not just the climate, but it's a great factor.