Optimised PC for KSP

[Jimbimbibble]

pcpartpicker.com is a great tool to help you build a computer. Building is not very hard and it saves money because you only buy what you need and you're not paying someone else to build it. I have the i5 4670k overclocked to 4.6GHz and it runs at an acceptable temperature with the cooler master hyper 212 EVO. Just make sure you have good case fans and air cooling will work well for a chip like this. You only need liquid cooling for more powerful chip like the i7 Extreme.

[Alshain]

This is the one you posted originally, right?

http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/quotes/intel-home-office-pc/ohS5eam0nY/

All I changed was the Video to the 740 and the Cooler to stock and I'm showing 547, not 592. That's only 7 more than the original quote.

[Oafman]

This is the one you posted originally, right?

http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/quotes/intel-home-office-pc/ohS5eam0nY/

All I changed was the Video to the 740 and the Cooler to stock and I'm showing 547, not 592. That's only 7 more than the original quote.

Ah ok. I see what you mean. If i take the original link, switch to cheapest i5 (3.2GHz), switch to a 740, cheapest cooler, and also cheapest case (water cooler needed a better case) I get £518, which is OK

Case

STYLISH PIANO BLACK ENIGMA MICRO-ATX CASE + 2 FRONT USB

Processor (CPU)

Intel® Core™i5 Quad Core Processor i5-4460 (3.2GHz) 6MB Cache

Motherboard

ASUS® H81M-PLUS: Micro-ATX, LG1150, USB 3.0, SATA 6GBs

Memory (RAM)

8GB KINGSTON DUAL-DDR3 1600MHz (1 x 8GB)

Graphics Card

1GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GT 740 - DVI, HDMI, VGA - 3D Vision Ready

1^st Hard Disk

500GB 3.5" SATA-III 6GB/s HDD 7200RPM 16MB CACHE

1^st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive

24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM

Memory Card Reader

INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (XD, MS, CF, SD, etc) + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT

Power Supply

CORSAIR 350W VS SERIESâ„¢ VS-350 POWER SUPPLY

Processor Cooling

INTEL STANDARD CPU COOLER

Sound Card

ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)

Wireless/Wired Networking

10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)

USB Options

MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 4 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS

Power Cable

1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)

Operating System

Genuine Windows 8.1 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence (£79)

Office Software

FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365

Anti-Virus

BULLGUARD INTERNET SECURITY - FREE 90 DAY TRIAL

Warranty

3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)

Delivery

STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)

Build Time

Standard Build - Approximately 9 to 11 working days

Quantity

1

Price: £518.00 including VAT and delivery.

Unique URL to re-configure: http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/quotes/intel-home-office-pc/stJSkk5tmd/

This seems acceptable. But I'm still unsure if it is worth spending so much more for Intel

Edited October 7, 2014 by Oafman

[Red Iron Crown]

All i5 CPU's are quad core (unless they changed something, that would be silly though)

EDIT: They did change something, what the heck is Intel thinking these days anyway?

Well they are mostly quad core and you should be getting the quad core models. The 4570 would be as low as I would go of the current gen but comparing prices might as well get the 4590. If you can afford the extra ~$50, the 4690K is a really sweet deal and the K means it is unlocked for overclocking which will help KSP a lot.

I thought all desktop i5s were quad core, only the laptop ones are dual core. Has that changed?

The best you can do budget-wise is something like this AMD Kaveri APU based system for $386. Spend another $110 for a 2GB GDDR5 R7-250X to crossfire with the APU and you'll be gaming great for under $500.

An i3 will run rings around a Kaveri in KSP. Single thread performance is king.

[Alshain]

Hmm I'm not sure where we're differing here. If i take the original link, switch to cheapest i5 (3.2GHz), switch to a 740, cheapest cooler, and also cheapest case (water cooler needed a better case) I still get £518

Wait, what are you aiming for? What is your price goal after VAT?

Edited October 7, 2014 by Alshain

[Oafman]

I didn't change the CPU or the Case. Try just changing the video and the cooler. This website has some really funky pricing schemes.

Yeah it's just the first place I looked. I wanted to establish specs before shopping around.

[Alshain]

Well, that's my suggestion. The original link, change just the cooler and the card to 740. AMD is a respectable choice if you need cheaper but as Red Iron Crown said, Intel runs rings around them. You could drop the video to the lower 7 series, but a 210 absolutely will not play KSP.

[briansun1]

I'm looking at that link right now and I see a problem with your Ram. It's single channel not dual channel. And yes this dose make a difference.

Edit: I did some editing of the one you posted and got this.

Edited October 7, 2014 by briansun1

[skeevy]

So, I can make big savings with AMD. Does this sound viable:

Processor (CPU)

AMD A4-6300 Dual Core APU (3.7GHz) & Radeonâ„¢ HD 8370D Graphics

Motherboard

ASUS® A58M-E FM2+ (M-ATX, DDR3, USB 2.0, 3Gb/s)

Memory (RAM)

8GB KINGSTON DUAL-DDR3 1600MHz (1 x 8GB)

Graphics Card

1GB NVIDIA GEFORCE 210 - DVI, HDMI, VGA

Processor Cooling

STANDARD AMD CPU COOLER

Price: £405.00 including VAT and delivery.

Unique URL to re-configure: http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/quotes/amd-fm2-richland/BCqABGLSLP/

On the AMD side, with the APU's you want a 7850K. They're the best APU outside of a PS4 or XB1 and cost the same as an 8350 ($179 USD). With AMD APU's, you have to get the right frequency of RAM for them to operate correctly and for them to be able to crossfire for better graphics performance. For the 7850K, you need 2133mhz DDR3.

On your graphics card up there....you need to get an AMD R7 250 GPU because they crossfire with AMD APU's. With an AMD APU and an R7 250 crossfired with it, you can play BF4 on Ultra @1080p. 720p Ultra or 1080p medium without it.

Put this together on Amazon.co.uk for £458 pounds. You might need to spend another 30 USD on some thermal grease and some fans (didn't check to see if the case came with them or not). A similar build on the site you are using was £800.

[OrbitusII]

Currently running a Pentium G2020 and a GeForce GT630 with 12GB of RAM, handles KSP like a dream. Yeah, I can't do Whackjob-Esque crafts, but it handles all the KSP I need it to at the quality levels I like (EVE with Astronomer's Pack, all graphics settings save pixel lights and shadow cascades are maxed, IIRC). I can also run stock Skyrim on high quality without trouble, which is nice. There's also more powerful siblings of the G2020 for a bit cheaper. They're not i5s by any means but they get the job done well for the price you pay.

Don't remember exactly how much my system costs but it's under $800 (including case, peripherals, monitor) I think...

[impwarhamer]

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/25004-KSP-Unofficial-Official-Computer-Building-Megathread-%28All-Questions-Acceptable-%29/page145

-that thread is amazing for advice on PC building/upgrading. They really helped me out. I'd run your build past them before buying.

I haven't read through the responses, but I'd just like to point out that ksp isn't like most games and is more intensive on CPU, where generally games are tougher on GPU (graphics card).

[cantab]

So there's been a lot of advice in the thread already. I'll add more

The quick advice: Less CPU, less CPU cooler, more GPU.

The long advice:

You want to buy a PC, that's fine. £500 is a shade cheap, budget gaming PCs tend to sit around £550-650, but it's not too bad.

I feel the ideal CPU given the budget is the Pentium G3258, AKA the "Anniversary Edition". That's an overclockable dual-core CPU and it's become quite popular for budget gaming PCs. With a good overclock it'll run KSP as well as anything and handle other recent games well too. Plenty of retailers will sell you a ready-overclocked system, but if you'll be OCing yourself just check the motherboard model supports it. Or just leave it at the stock speed and see how many parts you can put on your craft.

More generally, a Pentium or a Core i3 at a fast clock speed will do well, better I think for your purposes than an AMD processor. An i5 or i7 would be overkill in a £500 PC, especially as there's suspicion Unity 5's improved multithreading won't really help KSP much.

On RAM, 8 GB is pretty standard. Don't get less, but I doubt you'll find more on a non-customised PC. If possible find out if there are free slots which will allow a future upgrade.

For the graphics card, get something half-decent. The GeForce 210 and 610 (I have the latter) are underpowered even for KSP. Although you don't want to do a full-on build, consider buying a PC without a graphics card and adding one yourself, you'll get more choice that way. Just check it will physically fit in the case.

And on the cooler, you really don't need an all-in-one water cooler. At stock speeds the stock cooler is fine, that's its job. If you want to overclock there are nice air coolers costing £20-30.

Here's a build using that same site I've knocked up, £500 on the nail.

Case

COOLERMASTER ELITE 311 BLUE CASE

Processor (CPU)

Intel® Pentium® Dual-Core G3258 (3.2GHz, 3MB Cache) + HD Graphics

Motherboard

ASUS® H81M-PLUS: Micro-ATX, LG1150, USB 3.0, SATA 6GBs

Memory (RAM)

8GB KINGSTON DUAL-DDR3 1600MHz (1 x 8GB)

Graphics Card

1GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 750 - DVI, mHDMI, VGA - 3D Vision Ready

1st Hard Disk

500GB 3.5" SATA-III 6GB/s HDD 7200RPM 16MB CACHE

1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive

24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM

Power Supply

CORSAIR 350W VS SERIESâ„¢ VS-350 POWER SUPPLY

Processor Cooling

CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO (120mm) Fan CPU Cooler (£29)

Sound Card

ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)

Wireless/Wired Networking

10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)

USB Options

MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 4 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS

Power Cable

1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)

Operating System

Genuine Windows 8.1 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence (£79)

Office Software

FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365

Anti-Virus

NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE

Warranty

3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)

Delivery

STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)

Build Time

Standard Build - Approximately 9 to 11 working days

Quantity

1

Price: £500.00 including VAT and delivery.

Unique URL to re-configure: http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/quotes/intel-home-office-pc/fnHp_SVOBf/

On a final note, depending on what you have at the moment, chances are anything that's not total garbage will be a big step up.

[John FX]

I most surely would take the advice of `make the PC you want on the current site, then go to Amazon and get it at 60% of the price`

If you can screw in a motherboard and PSU then plug everything else in yourself you`ll save loads.

[Alshain]

Agree with the build it yourself idea. The hardest part is seating the CPU carefully without introducing air bubbles into your thermal grease. That isn't that hard either, but it is the hardest part. Just have some high purity (90%+) alcohol and some coffee filters (worlds cheapest lint free cloth) available to clean it off and do it again. Never lift the CPU and put it back down once the grease is sealed, if you lift, clean it start over (no shame in doing that either, most thermal grease tubes have way more than you need). It helps to have help, mounting the fan and CPU can sometimes take 4 hands.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Alshain

[barrelobees]

op, buying a prebuilt in this day and age would be really silly. with your budget you could build a pc (about as hard as putting together a megablocks kit) more than 3x as powerful for cheaper. the route you are going is a rip-off targeting uneducated consumers.

http://www.logicalincrements.com/

[Oafman]

Hmmm. It sounds like I really need to man up and work out how to put together my own machine. I didn't realise how much of a difference it would make to the overall cost.

I've never even looked inside a PC case, but I guess that with advice in this forum and youtube guides etc, I should be able to do it.

On a final note, depending on what you have at the moment, chances are anything that's not total garbage will be a big step up.

Well, I currently use my work laptop for KSP, with i5-2450M @ 2.5GHz, NVIDIA 525M and 6GB RAM. So it runs the game fairly well, but I guess that processor and GPU are a bit light, and the RAM definitely is. I find myself using 5.5GB of it with all the mods that I already have, and there are a whole lot more which I would like to use.

So I do want to improve this, but I also want to stop using the work laptop - would be nice to leave it in the office some days and not have to carry it around.

I'm going to read a little about building, and watch a few videos, and see if I can build up some confidence to give it a go!

Thank you all for your help.

[steve_v]

My 2c?

Get an Intel with the highest per core clock you can find, buy a decent cooler (IMHO, air is still king unless you spend big) & an 'enthusiast' board. Then OC the tits off of it.

The clock speed race seems to be over, now it's all about cores. Unfortunately Unity is single threaded

If you're lucky, and determined, you can get ~4.5GHz out of most i5/i7 chips on the right mobo.

Cache size *might* have a small impact, but I doubt it.

Ram bus speed will impact load time, but not nearly as much as a decent SSD will.

As far as GPUs go, M stands for medicore. KSP however is surprisingly light on the graphics. NVIDIA cards that end in less than *50 are probably not worth the time as they tend to be budget or mobile chips. (for ref, the AGP 8800GTX I just gave away to a good home mauled KSP & it was seriously old by PC gaming standards)

As for RAM, KSP shouldn't use as much as it does... but it does. (please, for the love of Dog, fix the asset loader) Any more than 16GB is excessive.

Use ATM or GNU/linux x64, the Win64 build is awfull.

Unfortunatley the GNU/Linux Mono runtime is also awfull - pick your poison.

Hmmm. It sounds like I really need to man up and work out how to put together my own machine

Generaly speaking, you put the thing in the hole that it fits in, it's not quite idiot proof, but if you can do Lego you can build a PC. Just ensure you ground yourself before grabbing edge connectors with your 1000v hands (I have nylon carpet - do you?)

Days gone by you could put a CPU in backwards and let out the magic smoke, now everything is keyed and not nearly as much fun.

IMHO, (I can smell the napalm coming) fancy thermal grease is overrated, I use ordinary unick industrial thermal compound - no silver, no magick. The same kind as is used for the SCRs in big angry 500KW+ kill you if you look at it funny inverters.

[Laie]

Generaly speaking, you put the thing in the hole that it fits in, it's not quite idiot proof, but if you can do Lego you can build a PC.

It really is that simple. no worries.

Just ensure you ground yourself before grabbing edge connectors with your 1000v hands (I have nylon carpet - do you?)

Good point -- mind that. If your power supply has a proper switch, plugged in / switched off will ensure that you ground yourself whenever you touch the case.

fancy thermal grease is overrated

Again, I agree. And don't put it on too thick -- despite the name, it's not an especially good thermal conductor. It's sole purpose is to avoid an air gap, which would be a thousand times worse.

[Oafman]

My 2c?

Get an Intel with the highest per core clock you can find, buy a decent cooler (IMHO, air is still king unless you spend big) & an 'enthusiast' board. Then OC the tits off of it.

The clock speed race seems to be over, now it's all about cores. Unfortunately Unity is single threaded

If you're lucky, and determined, you can get ~4.5GHz out of most i5/i7 chips on the right mobo.

Just done some reading on overclocking. I guess that basically what this means for me, in practical terms, is getting a cooler which enables my processor to run faster than it otherwise would? Would I OC anything else? Does stuff need more power as well as more cooling?

Use ATM or GNU/linux x64, the Win64 build is awfull.

Unfortunatley the GNU/Linux Mono runtime is also awfull - pick your poison.

Ok, no idea what this means. Are you suggesting I don't use a Windows OS?

Generaly speaking, you put the thing in the hole that it fits in, it's not quite idiot proof, but if you can do Lego you can build a PC. Just ensure you ground yourself before grabbing edge connectors with your 1000v hands (I have nylon carpet - do you?)

So, I would need to do something while there is live current?

[steve_v]

what this means for me, in practical terms, is getting a cooler which enables my processor to run faster than it otherwise would?

Higher clock speeds mean smaller margins, picture off -> on transition for a transistor/mosfet. If you increase the clock speed you decrease the time for each transition to be recognised, push it too far and a transition (bit) is missed = crashes etc.

Increasing the voltage differential (VCORE) increases the magnitude/voltage swing of each transition, therfore you can go faster without missing anything.

More voltage = more current = more heat = need a better cooler to keep things inside the SOA (safe operating area).

Also, a state transition is not instant, each transition from a '0' to a '1' or vice versa involves some time spent as 'in between'. If you're not a perfect conductor (1) or a perfect insulator (0) you have resistance. Resistance = wasted power = heat. The faster you go, the more heat generated.

So, I would need to do something while there is live current?

Um... no. double no.

What I mean is that your body/environment can generate some pretty horrendous voltages - don't transmit them to your expensive toys. Be carefull to ground yourself or get an antistatic wrist strap.

I work with 'live current' all the time - voltage kills sensitive CMOS parts, current frys bags of mostly water. The difference is subtle but important.

Ok, no idea what this means. Are you suggesting I don't use a Windows OS?

Clarification: If you want to run lots of mods (read >3.5GB memory usage) you will need a 64 bit build - the Win64 build is unstable as all get out, the GNU/Linux x64 build is stable but the mono runtime is slower than its windows counterpart. Edited October 8, 2014 by steve_v

[Laie]

So, I would need to do something while there is live current?

Good forbid, no. We're talking about static currency.

Here is a simple experiment that will teach you an important electrical

lesson: On a cool, dry day, scuff your feet along a carpet, then reach

your hand into a friend's mouth and touch one of his dental fillings.

Did you notice how your friend twitched violently and cried out in

pain? This teaches us that electricity can be a very powerful force,

but we must never use it to hurt others unless we need to learn an

important electrical lesson.

The same effect can damage integrated circuits, and it doesn't take a visible spark to do so. If you fry the chip outright, you can consider yourself lucky. Otherwise you end up with strange, feng-shui-like computer problems: things go wrong on a waxing moon while the outside temperature is above freezing, or when the Dow Jones ends in an odd number.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Laie

[Linear]

I wouldn't plan your computer for what the game is now. They will fix 64 bit eventually, and probably fairly soon. I wouldn't recommend less than 8GB for any computer being built today with the intent to be used for gaming.

The same for multi-core, when Unity 5 gets here they will be usefull however, an i5 is fine for a "budget gaming PC". (that's almost a contradiction really.. "budget" and "gaming")

Graphics is less important for KSP, and a card a few generations old can be cheap and budget friendly while still providing "enough". I have a EVGA 560Ti and I love it, it goes around $200 right now, but I have not done any price comparisons. If you can find better for the same price or close enough, take it. Nvidia's numbering system is a bit confusing (so is AMD, but I know nothing of them anymore) Good gaming cards generally have a x60 or higher as the last number. The x50's might do ok in a pinch. Don't go lower than that. The first number is the generation, so mine is generation 5 model 60, the generation is far less important, but if you can find something 1 or 2 generations ago, it will most likely be cheaper. So if given the choice of dropping the model number or the generation due to price, drop the generation get the higher model.

AMD Radeons are certainly cheaper. But it's a case of "you get what you pay for". I've never seen a Radeon I didn't hate.

560Ti for $200, what year are you in?

[Oafman]

Um... no. double no.

What I mean is that your body/environment can generate some pretty horrendous voltages - don't transmit them to your expensive toys. Be carefull to ground yourself or get an antistatic wrist strap.

I work with 'live current' all the time - voltage kills sensitive CMOS parts, current frys bags of mostly water. The difference is subtle but important.

Ah right, got it. I'll get one of those wrist bands

Clarification: If you want to run lots of mods (read >3.5GB memory usage) you will need a 64 bit build - the Win64 build is unstable as all get out, the GNU/Linux x64 build is stable but the mono runtime is slower than its windows counterpart.

So, what does this actually mean?

Does it mean I get a different type of processor? Which part is it that determines type of 64bit?

Sorry for the simplistic questions. I'm on a steep learning curve.

[Red Iron Crown]

560Ti for $200, what year are you in?

Might not be in US$.

[steve_v]

Does it mean I get a different type of processor? Which part is it that determines type of 64bit?

32bit binary numbers only go so high (32768 FWIW) 64bit numbers go higher. Every memory address needs a number...

All modern CPUS are capable of 64bit adressing.

When an application (ahem, KSP) doesn't do its own memory management and just says "I need this much RAM (in one block)" it has to fit within these contraints - otherwise it crashes with an 'out of memory/page allocation failure'.

64bit just lets you address more memory in one block.

The KSP 64bit build (unstable on Windoze, stable on GNU, non-existant on MacOS) can address more than the 32bit limit, so you can run more mods

On a side note, this is why it pisses me off when machines are advertised as having '4gb memory' and come with 32bit Windoze.. guess what, you can only use ~3.5GB of that... but I digress.

I'm lazy and somewhat drunk, so http://http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_limit

too many https, gah.

Further input shall wait untll the sunlight burns mine eyes again.

Edited October 8, 2014 by steve_v