First Mod encounter Problems

[Th3F3aR]

Hi everybody,

i stepped to the next level of KSP by using several mods now.

-FAR

-TAC LS

-RemoteTech2

-KAC

-Fairings Mod (can't remember the name)

-ScanSat

Most of those Mods don't affect gameplay in terms of "flying" the ship, that is why i chose them. But they offer a lot more to do

I now got 2 major problems:

1st

Flying with FAR is a little bit complicated, i tried doing a real gravity turn like its often proposed on the forums here, ascend to 500-1000m and turn slightly sideways on 70m/s. This step works quite good, but on releasing SAS to let the rocket perform the turn just nothing happens. Most times the rocket bounces back to vertical and the AoA causes it sooner or later to flip uncontrollable. On performing it handways, by pointing into the prograde marker and slightly turn it to 45 degree on the ascent to 20km it works most times. After the 27km mark it seems that AoA doesn't affect the rocket anymore and i can start to tip over to vertical and perform the circular burn and wait till ap encounter and then finish circularization.

Is that the way how to do it? I thought the rocket will perform the turn by it self after slightly tipping over. Or am i going to fast ?

(Will post screenshot when home)

2nd

RemoteTech fooled me the first time I thought it is possible to shove a sat into orbit unmanned, but after some km think 8, i lose mission control. Do i have to extend one of the antennas to regain the signal or is it completely impossible to fly unmanned in atmosphere? Btw. where do i change the delay settings? Don't want to wait 30 min to see the results of throtteling up or down.

Thanks in advance

Edited December 15, 2014 by Th3F3aR

[Wanderfound]

The SAS-free ascent works in FAR if done right, but it isn't necessary. Keep the SAS on, turn a little immediately after liftoff, gradually pull the nose towards the horizon as you ascend, keeping it within 5° of prograde the whole way.

As you've noticed, at high altitude the air thins enough to allow SAS torque to overpower aerodynamic forces. That's the key to a lot of stuff in FAR, whether it be rockets or spaceplanes: be very careful at low altitude, but go nuts if you want once you gain some height.

The other trick is in building: you have to keep your CoL behind CoM at all times. Tailfins are useful.

[biohazard15]

The main trick when you build a FAR-capable rocket is your first stage. Aim for a long-burning, heavy stage with a starting TWR of 1.3-1.6 that is capable to deliver your second stage to circularization point.

[Streetwind]

The rocket keeps righting itself out of the turn because you are going too fast at low altitudes... Try less TWR, and less fins. Most rockets do not need any fins. Too much stability makes a rocket refuse to turn over by itself.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Streetwind
god dammit mobile devices

[Empiro]

Wait until the velocity prograde marker meets up with the where you're pointing (which should be about 10 degrees if you're turn at 70 m/s), and then release SAS. The golden rule in FAR is that if your rocket is properly balanced and stabilized, it will "want" to go wherever the green marker is. If you point too far away from it, your rocket will break apart.

A perfect gravity turn requires no further input from you until your cut your engine when your AP is above the atmosphere. And ideally, your time to AP should never be more than 40 seconds away from you. This minimizes the delta-V you need to circularize.

[Oafman]

2nd

RemoteTech fooled me the first time I thought it is possible to shove a sat into orbit unmanned, but after some km think 8, i lose mission control. Do i have to extend one of the antennas to regain the signal or is it completely impossible to fly unmanned in atmosphere? Btw. where do i change the delay settings? Don't want to wait 30 min to see the results of throtteling up or down.

Thanks in advance

What antenna were you using?

If you fit the Reflectron DP-10 to the outside of the ship for launch (a popular option as it can withstand atmosphere) then it will only provide a connection up to 500km from KSC. But this ought to be enough time to get your ship out of the atmosphere, where you can activate an antenna with a longer range (eg the Communotron 16 or 32).

If you're finding that you're not out of the atmosphere in time, then use a less aggressive ascent profile; go more vertically so you enter space well within the 500km range of KSC.

And importantly, once you're in space, don't forget to activate the better antenna. The number of times I have forgotten to do this is not funny.

[Th3F3aR]

Thanks for the replies, will try that out and see if im still going to fast, mostly i throttle to 50% or less.

What antenna were you using?

If you fit the Reflectron DP-10 to the outside of the ship for launch (a popular option as it can withstand atmosphere) then it will only provide a connection up to 500km from KSC. But this ought to be enough time to get your ship out of the atmosphere, where you can activate an antenna with a longer range (eg the Communotron 16 or 32).

If you're finding that you're not out of the atmosphere in time, then use a less aggressive ascent profile; go more vertically so you enter space well within the 500km range of KSC.

And importantly, once you're in space, don't forget to activate the better antenna. The number of times I have forgotten to do this is not funny.

I mostly used the Commu 32, and mounted the Reflectron KR-7 on it. Outside means also outside the fairing box? I think i just forgott to activate them on launch ^^

If that works that would be perfect, cause im currently building up a satellite network and using a manned flight everytime is annoying

[WuphonsReach]

FAR changes some small things about rocket design.

Lift-heavy payloads such as anything with ZeroPoint's fairings tend to put the center of lift far forward of center of mass. This leads to rockets that tend to want to fly in reverse after a pitch/yaw maneuver in low atmosphere. If your rocket suddenly noses over and tries to fly engine-first with the fairing/payload behind it, then your CoL is ahead of CoM. The easy fix there is some tail fins until CoL is close to or behind CoM.

At low levels, plan on a nearly vertical ascent profile (maybe 3-5 degrees at 5km) until 10-15km. Once you get past 25km, you can start to nose over a lot more.

Low TWR of 1.3-1.6 off the pad is good. You do not want to exceed mach 1 until the air thins out (around 10km) or you'll end up breaking off bits and pieces.

With Remote Tech - plan on having 3-5 sats in LKO (around 700km altitude) in equatorial orbits with Comm-16 (or Comm-32) antennas to relay signals for any other satellite that is launching / in low orbit. These sats help protect the communications links through redundancy at a time (near Pe) when any orbiting satellite is most vulnerable and you need to take corrective burns immediately.

I usually end up with four at 700km, spaced roughly equidistant, running Comm-16s. Then another 2-3 at 1500km altitude orbits around Kerbin running Comm-32s. Then a pair of KEO sats w/ Comm-32s (linked to KSC or the LKO sats) along with the highest range dish that I have set to "Active Vessel".

Later on, as I fulfill various orbital contracts (Fine Print mod), I'll end up with even more sats in KEO with directional antennas pointed at various planets/moons. Usually no more then 2 long-range directionals per satellite (i.e. a pair of KR-14) along with an omnidirectional antenna link (Comm-32) to other sats in KEO.

[OTHOAB]

1. To get you into an orbit in FAR you should start turning almost from the beginning, something like ~1km and do it very slowly. Make it fast and see your rocket just broke apart.

And if you have problems with SAS, well... add some more winglets (or how it is called).

2. Your antenna probably broke in atmosphere due to a high pressure. To prevent this, make the antenna 'start retracted' in VAB and hide it under the fairings.

Edited December 15, 2014 by OTHOAB

[Oafman]

Thanks for the replies, will try that out and see if im still going to fast, mostly i throttle to 50% or less.

I mostly used the Commu 32, and mounted the Reflectron KR-7 on it. Outside means also outside the fairing box? I think i just forgott to activate them on launch ^^

If that works that would be perfect, cause im currently building up a satellite network and using a manned flight everytime is annoying

No it doesn't need to be outside the fairings. In fact, you can activate an antenna in a plane's cargo bay, and it should be safe from atmospheric forces and allow you to remote control.

I'm not sure about the KR-7 as I never use it (it weights half a tonne!), but the DP10 doesn't need to be activated, it always starts on. The Commu32 starts off, unless you change its right click settings in the VAB.

So yeah, you can remotely launch your first satellite. But bear in mind that, as its your first, the second it goes beyond the horizon from KSC, you lose it until it comes all the way back around, so getting a network started is not the most straightforward thing.

[Th3F3aR]

No it doesn't need to be outside the fairings. In fact, you can activate an antenna in a plane's cargo bay, and it should be safe from atmospheric forces and allow you to remote control.

...

So yeah, you can remotely launch your first satellite. But bear in mind that, as its your first, the second it goes beyond the horizon from KSC, you lose it until it comes all the way back around, so getting a network started is not the most straightforward thing.

I encountered that problem already That is why i want this network set up first before going into deeper space. The KR-7 needs to be activated...

[nekogod]

I found that it was much easier to set up the first satellite by taking a much steeper path to orbit. It's a little heavier on the deltaV requirements, but the satellite remains above the horizon longer. Even better if you can burn straight to keostationary altitude.

[Kesa]

For remote tech : longer range antenna won't work if there is not a clear sight line between probe and mission control, or between probe and an other ship with antenna and somehow connected to mc. However, it is possible for probe to be told what to do later(see here http://remotetechnologiesgroup.github.io/RemoteTech/guide/comp/). I haven't FAR so I don't know what your ascent profile look like, but with mine, only the circularization burn is out of sight. Just make a circularization node an tell your probe to execute it.

[MarvinKitFox]

i stepped to the next level of KSP by using several mods now.

.

.

.

I now got 2 major problems:

1st

Flying with FAR is a little bit complicated....

2nd

RemoteTech fooled me the first time I thought it is possible to shove a sat into orbit unmanned, but after some km think 8, i lose mission control. Do i have to extend one of the antennas to regain the signal or is it completely impossible to fly unmanned in atmosphere? Btw. where do i change the delay settings? Don't want to wait 30 min to see the results of throtteling up or down.

First of all, that is a good set of Mods to have. They work together quite well, and do enhance your experience quite a bit.

Far: Everything you say and think is correct, if a bit .... eager.

Ship design under FAR is a bit different from stock, especially with regard to things like fins, etc.. Practice, observe, and you will soon grok it.

You are totally on the right track already.

RemoteTech: Take a look at the antennas available to you.

There are roughly speaking two lines of antennae to use:

1)Deployable ones that are lightweight, and longrange, but only function when deployed. Typically directional. Fragile, so flying through air with them deployed destroys them!

2)non-deployable types that tend to be very heavy and/or short range, but can function even when flying.

In a typical scenario you will mount 2(+) antennae on your ship. One omni aerial that will talk back to KSC during launch, and a second deployable to use when moving further away but safe in vacuum.