[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

[Gfurst]

you have limited space on a manned vessel (especially if trying to be realistic) - You can still transmit and reset the experiment with a scientist, but once you've collected it, it's done!

You can't collect some of them... Though it makes sense to have to leave some of the experiments in place... there are a few issues that follow:

One is that you can't ditch the service module and return only with the capsule (like they actually did in real life), you can't for example gather from a science collecting probe and re-use it.

A second more important issue, is that I think you need to collect the data to place in mobile processing lab, otherwise stuff won't work, right? (I haven't personally played with labs yet)

A better solution would be to have a mod that limits experiment carrying space and allow for custom storage (I'm positive there was something like that).

[Yemo]

@nobodyhasthis: That sounds very interesting!

@Gfurst:

This was the planned progression for mystery goo and materials bay:

Transmit: 30%, single use

Scientist reset + transmit: 30%, multi use

Return: 100%, single use

Cyclotron (from StationScience) + Scientist: 100%, multi use

Desired gameplay effects:

1. Instead of just cramming every science experiment on a mission, the player has to think about whether it is worth it at this stage of the game. Even for manned missions.

2. Full science spamming made harder. You cant just use a mini one kerbal science hopper on minmus in the early game and then only return the single kerbal, if you want those 2 high yield experiments. But later on you can station a cyclotron in minmus orbit and use it as a base for 100% transmission.

- - - Updated - - -

Did anyone check this code in the SETI-settings.cfg?

@PART
[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand]:HAS[~minimumCrew[0]]]:NEEDS[RemoteTech]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
    %MODULE[ModuleSPU] {}
}

I cant check at the moment, if this code is ok/necessary.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Yemo

[Gfurst]

Did anyone check this code in the SETI-settings.cfg?

@PART
[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand]:HAS[~minimumCrew[0]]]:NEEDS[RemoteTech]:FOR[SETIctt]
{
    %MODULE[ModuleSPU] {}
}

Hummm according to MM's handbook.. the "HAS[~minimumCrew[0]]" will filter to anything that does not have a minimum crew of zero.

Its just seems to add ModuleSPU there, which I don't know why for... but could cause issues too. Maybe they just weren't apparent with crewed command and established link to base.

Maybe someone can confirm this out but I don't think this is needed.

@Gfurst:

This was the planned progression for mystery goo and materials bay:

Transmit: 30%, single use

Scientist reset + transmit: 30%, multi use

Return: 100%, single use

Cyclotron (from StationScience) + Scientist: 100%, multi use

I get it that biome hopping and science farming are not exactly the best game play.

But I'm not playing with Station Science, and would otherwise make things very very grindy, so I'm reverting this on my end.

[Yemo]

Hummm according to MM's handbook.. the "HAS[~minimumCrew[0]]" will filter to anything that does not have a minimum crew of zero.

Its just seems to add ModuleSPU there, which I don't know why for... but could cause issues too. Maybe they just weren't apparent with crewed command and established link to base.

Maybe someone can confirm this out but I don't think this is needed.

I get it that biome hopping and science farming are not exactly the best game play.

But I'm not playing with Station Science, and would otherwise make things very very grindy, so I'm reverting this on my end.

I thought the same and I m considering deleting this statement, though without the ability to test at the moment, I need someone to confirm.

Do you play with DMagicOrbitalScience, then there should be plenty experiments, while mystery goo and materials bay are still useful for "free return" probes (aka non-landing ones). Also keep in mind, that the stats of those 2 experiments were heavily changed. Materials bay is much lighter and smaller than in stock. Mystery goo is heavier, but also brings much more science points.

[RobertJPowell]

It plays fine on my end. Perhaps the main branch (lite) should load with that function reverted whilst you could have a patch for those of us that like the current way

[Yemo]

It plays fine on my end. Perhaps the main branch (lite) should load with that function reverted whilst you could have a patch for those of us that like the current way

I plan to really separate the 3 modules for KSP 1.1+.

At the moment SETIctt has a bunch of rebalancing configs, which would belong in the balance mod. Except for the probe core changes, everything like that should go there.

[ToneStack]

I am trying to figure out more about contract configurator as well as programing code for your mod seti contracts...

I have read through all the config files for the mod and have a couple questions...

I see that the contract progression for your mod runs of off certain expression variables like

"setiOrbitRecovery", "setiOrbit", "setiKerbinLanding", etc...

I want to try to have some of the contracts modified so that they require something like 3 completions before the next contract is unlocked...

I do not see where the variable like "setiOrbitRecovery", "setiOrbit" are intitally defined, not sure if they are integers, strings, boolean, or what the inital values for these variables/expressions are.

Could I get an example of how/ where those variables are set up so I could use them or even make some of my own?

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me...

Tone

[Yemo]

I am trying to figure out more about contract configurator as well as programing code for your mod seti contracts...

I have read through all the config files for the mod and have a couple questions...

I see that the contract progression for your mod runs of off certain expression variables like

"setiOrbitRecovery", "setiOrbit", "setiKerbinLanding", etc...

I want to try to have some of the contracts modified so that they require something like 3 completions before the next contract is unlocked...

I do not see where the variable like "setiOrbitRecovery", "setiOrbit" are intitally defined, not sure if they are integers, strings, boolean, or what the inital values for these variables/expressions are.

Could I get an example of how/ where those variables are set up so I could use them or even make some of my own?

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me...

Tone

First of all I want to say that the SETI contracts might not be the best CC example. I was just an early adopter of CC, but due to the KSP 1.0.x issues, I did not quite have the time to continue the contract development and keep up with all the functionality extensions for CC.

So there are probably better ways to set it up now.

My main sources were the CC wiki (https://github.com/jrossignol/ContractConfigurator/wiki) and nightingale himself, who was of tremendous help. Either by direct questions or learning from his contract packs.

The current variable system from SETIcontracts just consists of of exactly one defining statement and one or more checking statements.

Eg this one is the defining one (on contract completion):

    BEHAVIOUR
    {
        name = Progression
        type = Expression

        CONTRACT_COMPLETED_SUCCESS
        {
        setiMannedOrbit = 10
        }
    }

And this is the checking one:

        REQUIREMENT
        {
            name = Progression
            type = Expression

            expression = setiMannedOrbit == 10
        }

Contrary to earlier versions of the SETI contracts (eg in early versions of the SETI BalanceMod, every version is still available from kerbalstuff), this allows for a very clean system.

I m not sure how to do the 3 completions thing, I missed quite a lot of the CC development.

But maybe the variable could be introduced at another time (eg a preceding contract, so that it is not reset) and then just multiplied by 2 for each completion (CONTRACT_COMPLETED_SUCCESS).

If introduced with the value 10, the checking could be done for the value 80 (10*2*2*2 for 3 completions).

This is the wiki page about expression behaviours:

https://github.com/jrossignol/ContractConfigurator/wiki/Expression-Behaviour

Expression requirements:

https://github.com/jrossignol/ContractConfigurator/wiki/Expression-Requirement

And expressions in general:

https://github.com/jrossignol/ContractConfigurator/wiki/Expressions

Of course there might be better ways, I m not familiar with so far.

[Gfurst]

@Yemo

I figured out the why of "moduleSPU"... I think you implemented this so it gave flight computer capabilities to manned vessels...

Seems to be working well with pods... with the external seat however it complained with actions (such as brakes) that the command module had no power reserve....

This might just be a side effect to how RT checks it self.

[Godit]

The front page and recommended mods are in need of a desperate tidy up.

Nowadays considering that mods did not keep up... what are the most necessary for decent progression gameplay. ie contracts packs and whatnots...

Agreed. I would like to start a SETI career but I'm struggling to understand how to put this mod into effect. Is the "Balance mod merely a part of SETI or a separate plugin? Does the mod pack act as a one stop download for everything you need to get started? Are the contracts mod links additional to what's in the pack or already integrated? There are just so many mod links on the first page and following posts that I can't follow how they all fit together.

[Yemo]

@Yemo

I figured out the why of "moduleSPU"... I think you implemented this so it gave flight computer capabilities to manned vessels...

Seems to be working well with pods... with the external seat however it complained with actions (such as brakes) that the command module had no power reserve....

This might just be a side effect to how RT checks it self.

Ah, thank you, that makes perfect sense.

Agreed. I would like to start a SETI career but I'm struggling to understand how to put this mod into effect. Is the "Balance mod merely a part of SETI or a separate plugin? Does the mod pack act as a one stop download for everything you need to get started? Are the contracts mod links additional to what's in the pack or already integrated? There are just so many mod links on the first page and following posts that I can't follow how they all fit together.

I removed the BalanceMod from the OP, since it is for KSP 0.90 and changed the info on the mod pack.

For basic functionality, only the mod pack is required.

SETI CommunityTechTree v0.9.2.2 (for KSP 1.0.4)

SETI-CTT Mod Support

• AtomicAge (no adjustments, fits nicely as is)
  

Fixes

• Fixed KerbalSeat/RemoteTech, thank you very much Gfurst
  

[eLDude]

well done sir

SETI-NewParts-RemoteTech.cfg

%node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.2, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 0

and i changed how probes get EC

@PART

[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand]:HAS[#minimumCrew[0]]]:AFTER[sETIctt]

{

@RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]

{

@maxAmount = 5000

@maxAmount *= #$/mass$

@amount = #$maxAmount$

}

}

Edited September 4, 2015 by eLDude

[Yemo]

@eLDude: Thank you very much, I corrected the node on the KR-8 dish.

With KSP 1.1 not too far away, I m reluctant to touch the EC again. There are some mods with pretty heavy probe cores and it would take quite some time to sort them out.

Especially since I plan to remove all the rebalancing from SETIctt with KSP 1.1 (except for some very limited probe core changes due to starting unmanned, not sure whether I will touch the EC or just the SAS functions).

I didnt feel like working on the contracts this weekend, so I did some SETIctt changes:

SETI CommunityTechTree v0.9.2.3 (for KSP 1.0.4)

Tech Tree changes

• Tier1 nodes cost 8/4/6 science instead of 4
  
• Tier2 nodes cost 20/16/18 science instead of 16
  

Part changes

• LV-T15 (VenStockRevamp) earlier @basicRocketry
  
• 1.25m Fuel tanks earlier @basicRocketry
  
• LV-900 (VenStockRevamp) earlier @generalRocketry and more fuel
  

SETI-CTT Mod Support

• Kethane (1.0.4 version from taniwha)
  
• Karbonite (updated for the fwd and aft atm engines)
  
• RadialEngineMountsPPI (no changes)
  

Fixes

• Fixed node on KR-8 dish, thank you eLDude
  

[legoclone09]

Hey Yemo, could you ask the creator of New Horizons if you could make a version of the SETI - Contracts for that? I love that mod but playing with stock contracts makes it boring. Also, where are the USI Kolonization parts? I can't find them.

[Yemo]

Hey Yemo, could you ask the creator of New Horizons if you could make a version of the SETI - Contracts for that? I love that mod but playing with stock contracts makes it boring. Also, where are the USI Kolonization parts? I can't find them.

That might not be necessary... (Stay tuned)

USI Kolonization should be in the second tech row from the bottom, after the recycling/station nodes.

On another note:

Since KSP 1.1 is supposed to do away with the current Mk1 Cockpit and the Mk1 Inline Cockpit was replaced for 1.0, this opens up the opportunity to get some additional cockpits which are more aero suited than the stock ones which are more like shuttle cockpits with all that torque and monoprop...

Mk1 Retro Pack

So, this is a pre-release of the old Mk1 Inline Cockpit model, together with the IVA from Sam Hall and some config tweaks from myself.

No reaction wheels, no monoprop, no SAS, no TAC Life Support resources, more EC than stock, but less than SETI Mk1 Inline Cockpit and significantly lower heat and crash tolerance. Oh, and a bit of liquid fuel capacity (might save 1 part count in early career). Dry mass is 0.7 instead of 1.

With SETI, it replaces the current stock Mk1 Inline Cockpit at earlyAviation (which is moved back to aerodynamicSystems).

Download (mediafire for the pre-release): http://www./download/4srjsgdlbj9jl4c/Mk1RetroPack-v0.7.0.0.zip

//---CC 3.0 Share Alike with attribution for IVA models, textures and config by Sam Hall and part config by Yemo,

//---All Rights Reserved (by SQUAD) for non-IVA model and textures by C. Jenkins

Please note that the config still uses :FINAL statements. Also as far as I can see, module manager is only necessary in conjunction with mods which use module manager anyway.

I appreciate any feedback on this!

Edited September 7, 2015 by Yemo

[Yemo]

SETI CommunityTechTree v0.9.2.4 (for KSP 1.0.4)

Fixes

• Fixed another of my mistakes concerning RemoteTech
  

Part changes

• KerbCan from VenStockRevamp a bit lighter
  

SETI-CTT Mod Support

• Mk1 Retro Pack (old Mk1 Cockpit, pre release in the SETI thread)
  

[legoclone09]

Awesome! I'll use this! Also can you make a retro cockpit for the current Mk1 cockpit as well so we can have it in 1.1?

[legoclone09]

I was messing around with the Retro cockpit and I threw together a prop plane quickly, and the sound was bugging out and I couldn't revert flight. Not sure if it is the cockpit, but you should look into that.

[Yemo]

Awesome! I'll use this! Also can you make a retro cockpit for the current Mk1 cockpit as well so we can have it in 1.1?

I plan to do the same for the current Mk1 cockpit, but only after 1.1 hits. I m not sure how to balance that one. Compared to the inline one, I guess no liquid fuel but rather functional air intakes? Not sure about the rest.

I also miss the old SweptWings, the current ones bring the CoL too far backwards. Will take a look at them as well.

I was messing around with the Retro cockpit and I threw together a prop plane quickly, and the sound was bugging out and I couldn't revert flight. Not sure if it is the cockpit, but you should look into that.

Hm, I ll try to reproduce. I hope it is just one of the KAX exceptions (do you use KAX for the prop?). Thank you for the notice!

In other news, SETIcontracts dev is on hold, another very promising opportunity came up...

[zeropositivo]

Hello Yemo

Sorry for asking, there's something I can't quite figure out. Ever since installing your (awesome, by the way) tech tree, I've noticed several science instruments that no longer provide any science experiment while in flight, with no option on rightclick (and science alert doesn't see them either). The ones I've found so far that behave like this are the ones from Sounding Rockets! and Kerbal Dust Experiments

Was this changed by you in some way? Or is it an unfortunate incompatibility?

Thanks!

[Hrv123]

Found possible error with one engine in tech tree but dont know whee to post it, here in tech tree thread or some other mod thread because I have number of mod installed and could not figure it out in what mod are this engines and their cfg file placed.

Engines are named: "Merlin Family Rocket Engine [1.75]" and in tech tree are located in "Survivability". Plus they came with five engine configurations: 1A, 1C, 1CVac, 1D, 1DVac, and are all unlocked from start.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Hrv123

[Nori]

Found possible error with one engine in tech tree but dont know whee to post it, here in tech tree thread or some other mod thread because I have number of mod installed and could not figure it out in what mod are this engines and their cfg file placed.

Engines are named: "Merlin Family Rocket Engine [1.75]" and in tech tree are located in "Survivability". Plus they came with five engine configurations: 1A, 1C, 1CVac, 1D, 1DVac, and are all unlocked from start.

I looked at a bunch of the more popular parts packs that include engines and I did not see those engines anywhere. In order for someone to help you you'll need to figure out what mod those are from.

You can search your GameData folder for that name. It may show up.

[Hrv123]

Located engine .cfg file in: GameData/RealismOverhaul/RO_DependentMods/RO_RealFuels_Engines.cfg

[Nori]

Located engine .cfg file in: GameData/RealismOverhaul/RO_DependentMods/RO_RealFuels_Engines.cfg

AFAIK SETI ctt doesn't alter any RealismOverhaul stuff.

Also, if you are doing a RealismOverhaul game, you should probably be using the Realistic Progression Zero mod as they are designed to go together.

In fact I'm not even sure if SETI ctt would work with RealismOverhaul as that mod changes everything...

Anyway, I'd go to their thread and ask them your question.

[Luka 999]

I think I found a bug with the parachutes. They are all tiny when deployed. It's not only a visual glich. It behaves the same way. Also when I installed real chutes mod the camera will randomly go miles away from the ship and I can't make it to get back to the ship. After a cuple of seconds the ship would randomly explode. Sorry if this was already disscused somewhere else. It's 22.00 in the night for me and I'm tired as hell. Please reply to this as soon as posible. Sorry if this is not a bug or if it is the result of other mods bugs. I love your mod.