Overhaul to science, engineering, parts unlocking, and kerbal skills progression...

[interface]

I would like to see science gathering based on more realistic process than click and collect. Idealy the science and parts unlocked would reflect real world progression, specifically materials science since it is so crucial to all industrial and scientific applications. Other areas of science as well, geophysics is an area I would love to see represented, aerospace research, chemistry, biology, astronomy, as individual sciences with Kerbals able to train for operating specific experiments in each field.

It would be very cool if the science in the game reflected the human races progression in understanding of the material world, as such it should start with geology and optics, and then once both are researched unlock chemistry, physics and biology, from which everything would spread out up a science tree.

An example: game start with core sample drills, basic rocketry, one would need to train Bob in geology (which would lead to Geophysics, branches to other areas of science). He would need to sample a few biomes for mineral properties on Kerbin and the Mun to unlock better tech nodes and parts, specifically 'discover' a list of rare earth (kerbin) minerals to unlock micro electronics and some engine technologies. So the player would have to get to the Mun using basicly 1960's technology just as humans did. They would need to send up satellites with unlocked optics experiments to identify biomes and minerals on Kerbin that would be sampled and through sampling unlock parts that relate to rare earth mineral using technology.

As Al Pacino says in Scarface 'First you get the mineral samples, then you get the new engine materials...'.

I would like science separated into data and results, sort of what the lab does but applied to all science with a main lab at KSC to process any experiments returned. A higher level scientist Kerbal operating that main lab will return more 'results' per amount of 'data' than a lower level one. New motivation for running missions and leveling up more scientists.

Scientist Kerbals should need to operate experiments for an amount of time, a few minutes to a few days or more depending on its real world counterpart. They would gain experience in the field of science they are trained for and currently using real time, without need to return to KSC. But returning to KSC would allow unlocking new more advanced fields of study through a 'Kerbonaut Training Facility' and/or 'Kerbal International University' at or near KSC. Scientists would need to conduct specific experiments in order to unlock the ability to run the next in the specific field of science, which could happen on site. To start a new field of science they would need to go to KSC and train for its first basic entry part.

Parts would be unlocked based on science specific to the innovations needed. Fuels through chemistry and physics. Electronics through physics and computer science, needed for showing more detailed orbital information.

Engineers would be part of the crucial process of innovation, better structures (max heat, radiator capacity, crash tolerance) through structural engineering 'programs' that would require engineers to run analysis on parts before, during, and after flights. The next part would need experience with the previous, bypassing only where somewhat realistic. One could not save up generic science and unlock a few nodes. Pad testing would account for a bit of the needed experience though, so one would not need to launch to orbit for all the 'engineering data' for every part. Capsules would require at least some orbital testing to gain full upgrades and unlock related technologies. Ion engines and other engines that do not operate in atmosphere would need to be used in space to unlock the next, but not SRB's or low ISP lift engines that operate mostly in atmosphere that realistically can be tested on the ground. Struts and material structure would upgrade parts values as experience is gained by actually analyzing used spacecraft at KSC. No single mission to everywhere, collect all the early stock science experiments, and unlock far to much of the game in one flight.

This is a theme for a change in how the game treats science, not a complete list of specifics to implement this concept. It would need to be fine tuned and applied evenly across the game, with an expanded need and use for pilots, who should be able to have a secondary specialty and collect science or engineering data at a lower rate, but not process data into final results. The main benefit of the change would be a more realistic crossover to real world science, enhancing one of the games major strengths. It would provide more motivation and immersion for the players.

Not that the game is 'wrong' in any way for not being like this, it is a balance of many things, but it could better represent the realities of scientific discovery. Hopefully in Unity 5 it will have some room to grow.

Edited November 14, 2015 by interface

[Red Cloud]

Hmm, I think there's some nice ideas here.

I think they go into the group of ideas from those people who want to see a more meaningful career, as opposed to the space engineers who excel at the actual spaceflight part of the game are happy to just build & play.

I love the idea of more meaningful science. I'd love to see putting kerbals into Uni, and choosing research. And I'd love a more meaningful set of science (such as "mission" we need some core samples from x site about a new mineral (e.g. aluminimum, uridium, whatever - somethign useful to the program)), rather than me just going around randomly sampling stuff because it gives me science in a pokemon "gotta collect em all" style.

I will ponder your idea along with some I am mulling around for an alternative career mode.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Red Cloud

[Nuranon]

agree with Red Cloud - not everybody would be a fan of such a heavily "scripted" career, I guess this could be some sort of "story" or "campaign" mode, very similiar to career but closer to reality and more requirements to make progress. Launching uncrewed could also make the early game more meaningfull - you only get very small engines and tanks - limiting you to suborital trajectories and you would have to do training flights & assignments with your pilots first before they become usefull (otherwise basically tourists) - basically making them plane test pilots before they become Kerbonauts, the same goes later for engineers and scientists. Specific missions could also be required to unlock skills once you reached the next level.

"realisticly" testing stuff before putting kerbals in it makes sense...I guess in theory that could be done with more missions you have to accomplish or by giving new parts a precentage based failure chance (such a failure would have to be connected to the safe system - making it impossible to reverse it once it happened), lets say a new pod has a 30% chance of failing, you could ignore that and possibly your newly trained Jebediah goes KIA because the capsule lsot atmosphere in space, if that doesn't happen - you get lucky - the failure chance than drops to 10% and then to 1% and finally to 0% if you test it uncrewed first though, then it goes directly to 0%, regardless if it failed in flight. I wouldn't require testing for every new part but for certain new technologies certainly and perhaps even not test required parts should get a 1% failure rate on the first flight...giving an incentive to use prooven technology for important/expensive missions.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Nuranon
phrasing

[Xavven]

I love this idea! This would be so much more immersive. I like the concept of a research project in progress getting stopped because more data is needed, whether that is scientific data or engineering data. Let's say an aerodynamic fin is being researched, and in order to complete the project, you are asked to launch a rocket and reach 500 m/s at under 3000m altitude (mwhahaha) so they can get test data.

Or say the LV-909 is under research, but in order to complete it they need to run a materials test in a vacuum to confirm the crazy idea will work. So now you've got to go suborbital with a science jr. attached to get the data.

[Red Cloud]

In a previous post I commented about the unmanned stuff, so I agree with Nuranon, it would be nice to see more of that unmanned probes used at the start. Honestly I have never used the stayputnik simply because I get given a manned capsule first, so why go backwards?

I definitely think more could be made of the early stage, I'd even consider switching the order for planes first, then space. So, you test high altitude flight first...with the slight caveat that so far my planes suck even more than my spaceships, but still, it's not that hard, and I would be happy enough with a few missions involving flight to work on the research needed to unlock the first space stuff.

And just like the famous wernher von braun, i'd be launching rockets (which do explode) before I stick a man or two on the top of my bomb (rocket)...

This is definitely for career mode, not for sandbox, so hopefully everyone is happy.

[jros83]

5 hours ago, Red Cloud said:

In a previous post I commented about the unmanned stuff, so I agree with Nuranon, it would be nice to see more of that unmanned probes used at the start. Honestly I have never used the stayputnik simply because I get given a manned capsule first, so why go backwards?

I definitely think more could be made of the early stage, I'd even consider switching the order for planes first, then space. So, you test high altitude flight first...with the slight caveat that so far my planes suck even more than my spaceships, but still, it's not that hard, and I would be happy enough with a few missions involving flight to work on the research needed to unlock the first space stuff.

And just like the famous wernher von braun, i'd be launching rockets (which do explode) before I stick a man or two on the top of my bomb (rocket)...

This is definitely for career mode, not for sandbox, so hopefully everyone is happy.

100% Agree with this and everything else said here.