Kerbal Space Program patch 1.1.2 is now live!

What is with all the gripes?  Does ANYONE here run a OS (Windows, Linux, Max, etc) that DOESN'T and HASN'T ever needed updates?

Lets give these people the credit they deserve and not the hate? anger? they seem to be getting from this thread.

Windows monthly updates.  Mac Updates, Linux updates, cellphones update, apps update, but these were advertised and shipped as ready to use!  Should we be whining about those too?  (I know people do)  Remember when Bill Gated Demo'd Windows XP and it BSOD'd at bootup?  Yes, it did happen.

As it was said above, software is complex.  Get used to it.  Windows has something like 25,000 people with their finger in the code.  MacOS X isn't too far off that number.  Linux has even more.  Gone are the days of 1 programmer, 1 program.  This means bug WILL happen, and will need fixing.  That means updates. 

Yes there were a lot of bugs in 1.1.0, but so what?  In the ~month it was out on steam as a pre-release they squashed hundreds of them, yet people were screaming that it was taking too long.    They released it (don't know what the decision making was on that, don't care either), and now many of those same people are screaming that they didn't test it well enough.  Get over it!  Either it takes a VERY long time to get the bugs worked out, OR you release buggy code.  It is an either/or equation.  There is no middle ground, especially in such a big and complex changeover in the underlying game engine.

I say thank you to those who have worked on this, and enjoy your vacation.  When you get back, there will be much to do, as always.

To those complaining I say get over it.  This is how the world works.

 

Az

Edited May 1, 2016 by azander
Added windows example

Azander, you misunderstand. Were not upset that the game needs updates or patches. That is a normal part of software life. We are upset that they rush out a hotfix (1.1.2) that breaks the game to a non-playable point, then announces a vacation. To me a paying costumer that says "here take what we got, see you in a month and we'll try to fix it then." In the mean time we have no product. This is why people get upset.

For added info I have noticed my cpu goes from 5% usage at the campus view but loading into the VAB or SPH it ramps to 24-29%. That is idol (no movement or input by me)

13 minutes ago, Steel Dragon said:

Azander, you misunderstand. Were not upset that the game needs updates or patches. That is a normal part of software life. We are upset that they rush out a hotfix (1.1.2) that breaks the game to a non-playable point, then announces a vacation. To me a paying costumer that says "here take what we got, see you in a month and we'll try to fix it then." In the mean time we have no product. This is why people get upset.

For added info I have noticed my cpu goes from 5% usage at the campus view but loading into the VAB or SPH it ramps to 24-29%. That is idol (no movement or input by me)

DO you own on steam?  IF yes go play 1.0.5 until 1.1 is fixed for you.  You still have a product.  FYI I have had microsoft windows updates break windows for me.  I just reverted to last stable release, when it happened.  You can do the same.  The vacation thing is needed for them to avoid negative work.  So if you want it fixed let them go on vacation.

Edited May 1, 2016 by mcirish3

just put mods into my 1.1.1

time to update to 1.1.2.. 

this time i think i'll try to move my save file over.

i suppose i'm happy as long as they're doing updates. ofc i'm running windows but my foray into 1.1.x has been okay minus wheels and landing gear. I think that the things introduced in 1.1.x (that move-able navball <3) outweigh the overall friction stability of 1.0 , as that's the only glaring issue for gameplay atm.

 

42 minutes ago, azander said:

What is with all the gripes?  Does ANYONE here run a OS (Windows, Linux, Max, etc) that DOESN'T and HASN'T ever needed updates?

Lets give these people the credit they deserve and not the hate? anger? they seem to be getting from this thread.

Windows monthly updates.  Mac Updates, Linux updates, cellphones update, apps update, but these were advertised and shipped as ready to use!  Should we be whining about those too?  (I know people do)  Remember when Bill Gated Demo'd Windows XP and it BSOD'd at bootup?  Yes, it did happen.

As it was said above, software is complex.  Get used to it.  Windows has something like 25,000 people with their finger in the code.  MacOS X isn't too far off that number.  Linux has even more.  Gone are the days of 1 programmer, 1 program.  This means bug WILL happen, and will need fixing.  That means updates. 

Yes there were a lot of bugs in 1.1.0, but so what?  In the ~month it was out on steam as a pre-release they squashed hundreds of them, yet people were screaming that it was taking too long.    They released it (don't know what the decision making was on that, don't care either), and now many of those same people are screaming that they didn't test it well enough.  Get over it!  Either it takes a VERY long time to get the bugs worked out, OR you release buggy code.  It is an either/or equation.  There is no middle ground, especially in such a big and complex changeover in the underlying game engine.

I say thank you to those who have worked on this, and enjoy your vacation.  When you get back, there will be much to do, as always.

To those complaining I say get over it.  This is how the world works.

 

Az

I made a similar post when 1.1 hit and nobody cared or listened either.

Everyone realizes that Squad could just throw their hands up in the air, stop updating KSP, and move on to something else, right? We are lucky that they are still updating this awesome game, and that we still are receiving support and updates.

2 hours ago, mcirish3 said:

I guess I am one of the lucky ones. My 1.1.2 is mostly bug free, and no game breaking bugs.

You do need to make regular game saves now, but I haven't come across anything insurmountable.

Every game these days seems to depend on an underlying engine that is produced somewhere else. There's stuff I use that gets almost weekly new releases, and which depends on some 3rd-party code that is still 32-bit only. 64-bit software has been around for a long time; it's rather sad that games in general have failed to keep up.

We do have better perfomance, but maybe things have slipped back. I haven't been around long enough to really compare. I am not sure if things are better or worse than v0.90 for the bugs. I can't compare to v0.25 I think the pace of change, and that matters for the mods which many of us use, has been too fast. v1.1.1 might as well not have existed.

We need a few weeks of stability for the mod authors to get out something that works. There are things that are likely to work without problems, and things which need tweaking, and things that should be taken out behind the barn and shot.

 

Don't get me wrong, this game is quite broken in it's current state, in my opinion. Just last night, for example, after navigating through all the difficult and frequent crashes I normally experience, I docked something over the Mun with a couple Sr. docking ports....as soon as I made contact and it switched from two crafts to one single one, the station disconnected again and parts flew off at amazing velocities that would of had them escaping Kerbol...no explosions, just this amazing force. Just thought I'd share, it is quite funny to watch.

18 hours ago, War Eagle 1 said:

... this first pic is from 1.1.1.

This pic is from 1.1.2.
Both have graphics setting have been untouched. 
I know this belongs in the tech support part but as y'all can see i have posted a link to an already posted thread that has received no aid 

Simply due to this being the 1.1.2 release thread, I have a similar problem with graphics, but NOT with the overall view quality.  In my case I'm using an iMac (not a Macbook) and the only issue with graphics is in the VAB and SPH and is limited to the floor stripes.  Instead of solid nonmoving lines, there are a lot of pixel clusters which seem to follow or flicker where the lines are to be drawn, similar in appearance to your posted images.  These started in 1.1.1.  Never had these in 1.0.5.  I'm sure Squad will resolve this.  Just wanted to share that graphics issues are not limited to MacBooks.  Again, the rest of the game (gameplay outside of editors) looks good.  Edit:  I am playing with the ground crew animations off and am in windowed mode.  For more details of setup, see post in thread of unmodded support, re: v. 1.1.1.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Dispatcher

1 minute ago, Wolf Baginski said:

You do need to make regular game saves now, but I haven't come across anything insurmountable.

Every game these days seems to depend on an underlying engine that is produced somewhere else. There's stuff I use that gets almost weekly new releases, and which depends on some 3rd-party code that is still 32-bit only. 64-bit software has been around for a long time; it's rather sad that games in general have failed to keep up.

We do have better perfomance, but maybe things have slipped back. I haven't been around long enough to really compare. I am not sure if things are better or worse than v0.90 for the bugs. I can't compare to v0.25 I think the pace of change, and that matters for the mods which many of us use, has been too fast. v1.1.1 might as well not have existed.

We need a few weeks of stability for the mod authors to get out something that works. There are things that are likely to work without problems, and things which need tweaking, and things that should be taken out behind the barn and shot.

 

You might be a bit mistaken. The problem isn't mod authors' mods, it is the stock game itself. Mod authors can't fix that, and it doesn't matter if they now have time to release stable mod updates because Squad is on vacation. Squad will come back and will be releasing more hotfixes.

58 minutes ago, mcirish3 said:

True, but what exactly do you want them to do about it. They are already doing everything they can. Without the switch to unity 5 we would have had to stay at 1.0.5 because any future expansion of the game would lower performance  on all platforms to the point of not being playable.  and you still have the option to go play 1.0.5 if you own on steam or saved a 1.0.5 copy on your computer.   Like it or not, there really is no way to make this better under the current situation.  GIve them a couple more months and they will get it fixed proper.  It is nearly as much out of their hands as yours.  You can say well they should not have released then.  But that ship already sailed.  You can go play 1.0.5 if you feel that way, no one is stopping you.

What would I want them to do about it?  I would want them to hold off on the Unity 5 integration until spacecraft could safely touch other things without exploding.

13 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

 

I made a similar post when 1.1 hit and nobody cared or listened either.

Everyone realizes that Squad could just throw their hands up in the air, stop updating KSP, and move on to something else, right? We are lucky that they are still updating this awesome game, and that we still are receiving support and updates.

If they wanted to abandon their flagship product, which I believe they're still attempting to actually sell.

 

People, stop with the complainer hate.  That's a one way trip to elitist, tiny userbase, and I've seen what happens when a space simulator goes down that road.  Trust me, you don't want to be there.  The complaints that are being made are *legitimate*.  Get over it.

7 minutes ago, mciann said:

What would I want them to do about it?  I would want them to hold off on the Unity 5 integration until spacecraft could safely touch other things without exploding.

If they wanted to abandon their flagship product, which I believe they're still attempting to actually sell.

 

People, stop with the complainer hate.  That's a one way trip to elitist, tiny userbase, and I've seen what happens when a space simulator goes down that road.  Trust me, you don't want to be there.  The complaints that are being made are *legitimate*.  Get over it.

I think you misunderstood; I don't disagree with anything you just said at all.

By the way, I saw your post a few pages back. Is the phantom docking force thing you described sound like what I described a few posts up? I'm wondering if it;s a widespread bug, and I haven't checked to see if it's a mod issue or stock issue.

Edited May 1, 2016 by KocLobster

So, as someone who has played the game for almost 5 years now, It has been my experience that unless I'm trying to do testing, no release is ready until at least a month after it is released. Also a lot of people are trying to bring over their saves from 1.0.5. The dev's said they would LIKE for you to be able to do this, but have they said that you COULD do this without problems? Other than the wishful thinking in dev notes prior to 1.1 release, nothing has been said about us being able to bring over saves successfully. That being said, just be patient. I'm sure 1.1.5 will be super stable and we will all be soooooo happy for months until the 1.2 cycle gets started (or who knows, maybe it will be 2.0 by then as they don't stick to their own numbering system very well) 

By the way, with all of the mod development recently my 1.0.5 game is working better than it ever has. If you need your dose of Kerbal just play that, and wait patiently until a stable version of the 1.1 series is out.

14 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

I think you misunderstood; I don't disagree with anything you just said at all.

By the way, I saw your post a few pages back. Is the phantom docking force thing you described sound like what I described a few posts up? I'm wondering if it;s a widespread bug, and I haven't checked to see if it's a mod issue or stock issue.

Yes it is a fairly common issue people are having. Along with if wheels touch ground they explode and random crashes in vab / sph. So you can't build, Cant dock, and cant land. Will someone please explain how I'm supposed to do anything?

2 hours ago, mcirish3 said:

Windows is the majority so ya, kinda.  At this point the likelihood of negative work happening if fairly high due to dev burnout.  1.1.1 is actually a great example of negative work, where bug fix introduced new bugs.  In two weeks they will be refreshed and I am betting the bug fixes will be better and not break more things.

Edit: and I get it!  It sucks it really does especially if the game is mostly not playable.   BUt most users don't have a serious problem.  Just the same It really sucks.  But at this point not much can be done about it.  IF teh devs don't get a much need break we are never going to get to the stable release point.   Some times you ahve to walk away from a problem for a while to see it in a new light.

I get that mac book users are the minority in this case. I also understand that a bug can be persistent.

However when one of the most up voted threads on the tech support part of the forums is Macbook related and quite a few people are experience it then it is considered good manners from a dev team to at least acknowledge that there is a problem. A simple "We see that you are having issues and we ll get to work on it asap" would show that they care.
However if you look at that thread (i posted a link in an earlier reply on this article) not a single dev has responded to it. 19 replies and 5 up votes to keep it going and noticeable yet not a single dev acknowledgment. That should throw up a red flag that something isn't right.

Squad is amazing when it comes to getting stuff done and fixed for the overall game and for windows users. But i have talked to quit a few macbook users who have shared stores of how their questions go without replies for months to the point where their ether give up on ksp or have to waste hours upon hours trying to find a fix for themselves, many without luck.

Again i understand we are the minority here but there is a difference between acknowledging that there is a problem and at least saying "hey we re working on it" or even a dev saying "hey I'm not on mac but i see your problem and i ll pass it along" and completely ignoring the problem. 

Glad i saved 1.0.5 and that I bought the game way early access. At this point with how we are being ignored I would not buy this game again with the lack of aid to macbook users.

we need another patch  

1 hour ago, mciann said:

 I would want them to hold off on the Unity 5 integration until spacecraft could safely touch other things without exploding.

That ship already sailed  6 months ago.

48 minutes ago, Steel Dragon said:

Yes it is a fairly common issue people are having. Along with if wheels touch ground they explode and random crashes in vab / sph. So you can't build, Cant dock, and cant land. Will someone please explain how I'm supposed to do anything?

I assume the docking phantom force bug is a stock issue then? Glad it's not any of my mods. On the other hand, that means I have to wait for Squad to make a bugfix.

Does anyone know if/exactly where this bug is on the bug tracker? Is anyone aware of when this bug popped up: in 1.1, 1.1.1, or 1.1.2? Is there any current work around?

If I take my save, put it in 1.0.5, dock, and then transfer the save back to 1.1.2, will the vessel be okay, or will it still send my ship spiraling out of control?

Edited May 1, 2016 by KocLobster

6 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

I assume the docking phantom force bug is a stock issue then? Glad it's not any of my mods. On the other hand, that means I have to wait for Squad to make a bugfix.

If I am not mistaken it is a Unity bug, which means you may have to wait for squad to upgrade to next unity.  Don't freak out it won't be as bad as unity 4-5 it is a small 5.2 to 5.3 so will take some time but a couple months should do it.  I am willing to venture if Squad had it to do over they would have pick a different game engine than the one they chose.  But hindsight is 20 20.

 

Edited May 1, 2016 by mcirish3

24 minutes ago, mcirish3 said:

If I am not mistaken it is a Unity bug, which means you may have to wait for squad to upgrade to next unity.  Don't freak out it won't be as bad as unity 4-5 it is a small 5.2 to 5.3 so will take some time but a couple months should do it.  I am willing to venture if Squad had it to do over they would have pick a different game engine than the one they chose.  But hindsight is 20 20.

 

You're telling me that in the current game, docking is impossible and will be for a few months? I find that quite hard to believe; that's a rather significant bug to not fix immediately. Why would they have not upgraded to 5.3 in the first place when they first did the 1.1 unity 5 transition?

What makes you think it is a Unity bug anyways? Who said that or where did you read that?

2 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

You're telling me that in the current game, docking is impossible and will be for a few months? I find that quite hard to believe; that's a rather significant bug to not fix immediately. Why would they have not upgraded to 5.3 in the first place when they first did the 1.1 unity 5 transition?

What makes you think it is a Unity bug anyways? Who said that or where did you read that?

the fact that most issues (landing gear, Landing legs, docking ) all deal with colliders and the base unite 5 has a known collider issue it is a safe bet were dealling with a engine issue not a dev issue.

That being said I find it hard to believe this was not noticed in the QA prior to rolling out KSP 1.1?

7 hours ago, AdmiralTigerclaw said:

 

Your sentiment might make sense if comparing software engineering to plumbing was even remotely... Well, comparable.

 

See, your plumbing isn't like a program.  Your plumbing is more like a single line of code.  When your single line of code is broken, you can see it's broken and you know what's wrong and where.  You can pay the software engineer to come in and fix that one line of code easily.  The problem is found, you've directed him RIGHT to it.  It gets fixed.

 

Most people who answer you: "You're not a software engineer, you wouldn't understand" fall back on such a response because making people understand is a long and time consuming task.  Explaining the problems in software development is a time-consuming, and inefficient task.  The time spent telling you all about what's broken is time wasted.  You can't fix it, why bother wasting time explaining anything further?  If you take your car to the shop for repairs, or get your plumbing worked on, 'you' (to refer to most average people) can barely wrap your head around the problem as it is before you add in the industry jargon and knowledge of national/international standards.  And this is a simple problem that you can physically see(smell;hear;feel) and find.  The guys working on your stuff might humor you if you seem to at least understand what's going on to begin with, but will try and keep it short and simple.  They're there to fix it, not instruct you.

 

Now, looking back at your plumbing example...  I said that your plumbing is more like a single line of code.  If you want your plumbing example to hold water (pun not intended), then a program isn't your plumbing.  A program is plumbing, for an entire city.  Imagine, if you will, a city of 500,000 people, with a grand total of 10 plumbers to find and fix any leaks.

 

TEN PLUMBERS to cover a hundred square miles of buildings ranging from single-family homes, to sprawling office complexes and industrial facilities.  They have to go in, find the leaks, and fix them one at a time.  This, is programming.

Now, imagine that your ten plumbers are working with blueprints and schematics for a water distribution system built by someone else.  Now they have to keep things patched up and flowing without even intimately knowing everything going on below their feet.  This is programming on top of an engine, like KSP is built on top of Unity.

 

Now, imagine that you have ten plumbers, and then about a thousand people wandering around an otherwise empty city designed to hold 500,000, randomly shouting about how a water fountain isn't working in a park, or a toilet won't flush, or the shower's cold.  Imagine now, that only 100 of those people actually give detailed information about the problem.  Like the address, floor, room, and any other observations they discovered once they realized something was busted.

 

This is the reality of the situation a dev is presented with.  Hundreds of thousands of potential points of failure, policed by ten on-the-payroll workers, bombarded by failure reports with only a fraction of said reports actually useful enough to find and fix the problem.  And what makes it even better is that as useful as the failure reports are, they flood in from non-employees.  These are 'phone in' reports from customers who might have just woke up to discover their kitchen flooded.  Everyone wants their problem fixed, NOW.

 

People, across many program dev projects and boards, just seem to fail to understand this concept.  It's no wonder 'You're not a programmer, you wouldn't understand' has become the mantra.  You really aren't a programmer.  You really DON'T understand.  Your product isn't something that's been under constant development and improvement for a hundred years (cars), and it's not some simple break that's easy to find and fix (plumbing).  Software engineering just isn't the same kind of product/service that people are used to.  The reality is that it's FAR more complicated while still being all but On-Demand.  This is 'the standard', or really, compared to a lot of indy-devs,  above the standard.  You want that 'perfect and complete' feel in your software?  Look at the kind of money and product you get:  Microsoft's Windows operating system.  Easily $300 for the lowest end copies, still needs some patching after every new version, been in development and constantly built upon for almost 30 years now, and uses a small army of codemonkeys for said development backed by one of the largest companies in the software world.

 

Let me clarify something for you:  You spent $40.

You didn't buy a product.

You invested $40 in a project that is likely to be ongoing for another half-decade.  Buckle down and grit those teeth.  Sometimes it will be painful.  I've been waiting for the return of 64 bit and a fix for a major memory leak since this time last year.  A few more weeks to fix some additional bugs popping up?

 

I can wait.

 

 

 

EVERY job can say the same thing. Software/game development isn't special, except that it is apparently exempt from customer service concerns. The plumbing comparison is valid because we're not talking about the type of business, we're talking about the way you do business  

I did buy a product. I bought a computer game that was billed as released and marketable. I didn't invest in a Kickstarter project, I didn't join a club, I bought a product based on advertising and a promise of a good in exchange for currency. 

And as for those who think Squad would be justified in throwing up their hands and saying screw it and moving on, I would remind you of two things:

1.  Squad isn't a software company. This is a one-off thing for them. There isn't another project for them to go to, this is their whole deal  

2.  Bigger, actual established development houses have folded for less. This is a very competitive industry and Squad is lucky to have found a niche. The one product they make has never been stable and if they walked away from it now, it would probably be the end of Squad as a game maker.  If EA released a comparable game next month that actually worked as advertised, I'd be willing to wager that the vast majority of casual KSP players would buy it and KSP would go down as a footnote in game history, largely forgotten until it got rereleased as a gold classic on GOG in five years  

I bought this game at 1.0. As soon as it was released commercially I was one of those who said "shut up and take my money!"  I've since talked others into buying it and even bought it as a Christmas gift for one of my kids. But I'm sorry, as someone who DID buy a finished product, I've been sorely disappointed in it. 

Ok ran into an issue on a new sand box game, clean, no mods. currently I'm trying to build a mining base any way found a small issue with the LT-2 landing struts and the LT-1 landing legs while trying to build it in the space plane hanger, the issue is that the legs will not properly turn their normal 90 degrees they sort of go off on a crazy angle. here is a picture to help explain.

as you can see the angles of change are kinda messed up.

On 4/30/2016 at 10:45 AM, steve_v said:

Ok, just patched my (working) 1.1.1 up to 1.1.2, result:

./KSP.x86_64 
Set current directory to /home/steve/Games/KSP_linux-testing
Found path: /home/steve/Games/KSP_linux-testing/KSP.x86_64
Mono path[0] = '/home/steve/Games/KSP_linux-testing/KSP_Data/Managed'
Mono path[1] = '/home/steve/Games/KSP_linux-testing/KSP_Data/Mono'
Mono config path = '/home/steve/Games/KSP_linux-testing/KSP_Data/Mono/etc'
displaymanager : xrandr version warning. 1.4
client has 4 screens
displaymanager screen (0)(HDMI-0): 1920 x 1080
Using libudev for joystick management


Importing game controller configs
PlayerInitEngineNoGraphics settings: Could..... not preload global game manager #0   i=0
Failed to initialize player

On STDOUT, no game. Really guys? No log either.

I'm going to add a +1 me too here. The Launcher itself isn't running, either.

Set current directory to /home/garrett/KSP_linux
Found path: /home/garrett/KSP_linux/KSP.x86_64
Mono path[0] = '/home/garrett/KSP_linux/KSP_Data/Managed'
Mono path[1] = '/home/garrett/KSP_linux/KSP_Data/Mono'
Mono config path = '/home/garrett/KSP_linux/KSP_Data/Mono/etc'
displaymanager : xrandr version warning. 1.4
client has 2 screens
displaymanager screen (0)(DVI-I-1): 1920 x 1080
displaymanager screen (1)(VGA-0): 1920 x 1080
Using libudev for joystick management


Importing game controller configs
PlayerInitEngineNoGraphics settings: Could..... not preload global game manager #0   i=0
Failed to initialize player

20 minutes ago, Steel Dragon said:

the fact that most issues (landing gear, Landing legs, docking ) all deal with colliders and the base unite 5 has a known collider issue it is a safe bet were dealling with a engine issue not a dev issue.

That being said I find it hard to believe this was not noticed in the QA prior to rolling out KSP 1.1?

Well that really sucks for us then. I wonder why Unity doesn't fix the issue? If these are all unity issues, is there really anything Squad can do to fix it themselves?

It is just the act of docking, right? It doesn't seem to matter if your ships are connected by docking ports.

I also don't understand how so many significant bugs made it past QA and into a full release version.

2 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

Well that really sucks for us then. I wonder why Unity doesn't fix the issue? If these are all unity issues, is there really anything Squad can do to fix it themselves?

It is just the act of docking, right? It doesn't seem to matter if your ships are connected by docking ports.

I also don't understand how so many significant bugs made it past QA and into a full release version.

well Idk about Unity being the main issue other than the fact that the game basically had to be rewritten for the change for Unity 5, landing legs where fine before that and same with docking so its a brand-new issue(I think don't quote me on it).

it's not a terribly huge bug just an annoyance and also forgot to mention, for whatever reason I can't CTRL+left mouse on icons in staging to high-light and move them all at once.....just another annoyance I've noticed.