Foxster

Here's a pretty good lander+orbiter I made if anyone is struggling to make one: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gl4boigw8qivilw/Eve%20lifter%201a%20with%20lander.craft?dl=0 It will get you down from orbit, using Mechjeb if you like. Shutes while slow you to 10m/s and a blast on the engines before touchdown will give a soft landing. Raise the legs before launch. Check the main tanks are full - top up from the landing tanks (the ones with the legs on) if needed. Fire up the engines. Stage it to blow off the landing tanks and legs. Then you can use Mechjeb to orbit with the turn at 24Km and a 60° turn shape. It will get you from sea level to 100Km with 1000+ Dv to spare. Design your own lifter to get it to Eve orbit.

There's was absolutely nothing about that that I didn't enjoy!

The Mk2 safely down on Eeloo...

Good call...

Thanks. Its actually just luck that it looks OKish. It just makes sense to me to have a tall and tapered shape with engines away from the fuselage. So I wasn't really aiming for a 'style' it just came out that way - but very likely its influenced by my preconceptions of how a rocket looks.

Everyone of a certain age knows what a proper rocket ship looks like... That's why, even when its not the 100% most efficient design, my ships tend to end up looking like this...

Very kewl designs! I do get a little bored with babying loads into orbit and tend to leave it mostly to MechJeb. Is there a Mechjeb ascent profile that will do most of it with these?

That's 8:36 of my life that I'll never get back.

That's a little dark. Could you please tell me how you used the fins you mentioned?

OK, I know KSPs drag & flight mechanics are a little odd. So I wondered - can I get lift on a vertically-flown rocket from some wings? I mean, is there some way to add wings to a rocket that is going to fly up, do a gravity turn and achieve orbit so that they will add some lift? Or can I only get lift from some wings if flying with a large horizontal component as in real life?

Some musings on dV and orbit... 71Km orbit seems like a good target. Its above the absolute minimum for a stable orbit and allows for some slight errors in ascent. 4550 seems to be about the lowest launch delta V to get there. If using multiple stages then the TWR on the first stage needs to be good enough to reach terminal velocity early on - but don't exceed it, use "limit to terminal velocity" in Mechjeb. This will be a TWR of 2-4 or so. Less than 1.6 and a 4550 craft will struggle to make orbit. If using Mechjeb then tweaking the ascent path of a craft with 4550 dV that is failing to reach orbit might claw back just enough dV. For a fast craft (high TWR first stage) I find a start turn altitude of 4.5K and a turn shape of 45% leaves 50dV by orbit on a craft with 4551 at launch.

Did you add 2x0.09 for two massless engines? If not then I make that 0.760+0.18=0.94t

Link to Tom Thumb Mun craft updated.

"Tom Thumb" Mun lander... 1.859+0.026=1.885t https://www.dropbox.com/s/ozd7mh705k2oco8/Tom%20Thumb%20Mun.craft

"Tom Thumb" Minmus lander... 1.446+0.025=1.471t https://www.dropbox.com/s/9q7slnx7pl1qk39/Tom%20Thumb%20Minmus.craft

Well, OK then. Here you go... 0.784+0.005=0.789t (0.005 is for the solar panel) ...and a craft file... https://www.dropbox.com/s/4zptiiiywihqjo7/Challenge%202.craft

Not really an entry as its just a tweak to the Timmy Tiny by swapping out the Oscar-Bs for a Round-8 and adjusting the fuel in the FL-T100. Gives a bit more dV and reduces the weight a little. I make it 0.784+0.005=0.789t. MechJeb will put it into a stable 71K orbit. (Unless its different enough to count as an entry...)

I think it would be good to tighten up on the payload to make comparison much easier. How about the cheapest ship that puts a full orange tank with a clamp-o-tron docking port on each end (so its useable) into a 75k orbit? Cost reduced by any funds returned on recovery of lifter.

The problem with the SSTO plane solution is that they take so long to do their thing. Takes a while to get them up and a while to get them back in one piece. In terms of time, I find the best refuel solution is just a plain old rocket lifter that I recover some of. About 75K funds will put an orange tank into 85K orbit, with just enough fuel left to de-orbit the top of the lifter and kick up some dust on landing under some 'shutes. The "secret" to economic lifters is to use SRBs for the first two stages where you'd probably use engines+fuel in sandbox, with a small engine stage for finishing the orbit off. Once you have a man on Mun and Minmus plus a probe in orbit around each you can make enough off flag and orbit science contracts to shove tanks into space.

Here's a stock craft that will lift a 120T payload from Kerbin to a 100Km orbit: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jgww6graghcuf1l/Far%20lifter%204.craft If you are careful with the lift or use MechJeb, there will be enough fuel left in the last lifter stage to get you started on the way to the outer planets, then throw away the last lifter stage. It will have about 10K dV left by Kerbin orbit, you will "recover" dV when you throw away each of the lower tanks as you empty them during your burns.

Ah, right. That's not a stock engine though. You can do anything with a mod.

Sometimes you want the particular ISP or thrust of a group of engines. Throwing a big engine in just doesn't always do the job to optimise TWR and/or dV. It doesn't have to be a small tank. "Overheating is due to large fuel flow" is meaningless. What's really happening is that the heat is being shared by the parts - that's how heat works in KSP. You can just as well use an Octogonal Strut above the engine. I just happen to like it below the engine.

If you you fly 4 as I have shown in space then they will overheat.

Have you tried? Cos actually you do.

You do have to watch out for the Oberth effect though. This is where the use of a rocket engine when travelling at high speed generates more useful energy than one at low speed.