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Exactly the point. It isn't difficult for a pro. I find it odd how you can handle a HUGE gameplay mechanic (timewarping & travel times), which can quite easily take longer than a football game at 4x or even 100000x timewarp, on behalf of a "nod to realism" - and yet you cannot fathom the inclusion of any possible even notion of time-sensitive science gathering as anything more than a "stupid mechanic" - even when entirely optional. As I said so many times above.... the time taken is not the challenge. You are making very little effort to understand, particularly given the number of times it has been explained.

I am talking about a ship orbiting at all, not the difference between once or 10 times. I can see from your signature that you wrote a plugin, and created an "improved difficulty" tech tree. I would hazard to say you have played the game a fair amount, and know the ins and outs. So I can understand why you don't see the difference, but not everyone is as experienced with the game as you are. Getting a stable orbit around a world is much more challenging (for the new player) than just flying past it - or into it. Of course you might not still find it challenging to get a zero-inclination near-circular orbit 6km above Minimus, but that is plenty challenging for plenty of players who have no incentive to ever bother - a one-way fly-by is just as good as a parking orbit, despite the fact that getting into orbit and back to Kerbin requires more fuel and better design considerations. So, this would provide goals & incentive to new players, and the added benefit of speed for experts who can already "do it all". If you were conducting an energy-intensive study, your electrical requirements would add considerations to your decisions - batteries, solar exposure, ship positioning, and kerbal capacity would all become more important considerations. Utilizing them would be optional, but if you pull it off, it would increase the impact of your efforts. And again, timewarp makes most of the gameplay elements possible, so suggesting that something becomes "less fun" or "pointless" because you have to use timewarp kind of invalidates the entire game. Hey, thanks for the feedback, this is the sort of comment that really makes this forum feel like a friendly, comfortable community.

You finally understand the nature of the suggestion. I didn't see a requirement to make dramatically significant suggestions in the forums. After playing the through creative mode a couple times, I saw an area where appreciating the extra effort a player might go through, and posted the suggestion here. I didn't realize we were shooting for realism here. A process that takes a week of MET is not insignificant because of timewarp - it just doesn't take up your actual real time. It takes different design considerations - not massive ones, but ones that are fun for new players, and reward experienced players... but again, as stated above, completely optional. I am not inclined to believe that your interpretation of "Fun" is the same as mine, but to each their own.

I want to be clear about something: There is currently no challenge to science collection whatsoever. The act of gathering science may as well be automated, since forcing the player to zoom in and locate the thermometer, so that they can click it to take a reading, is not the challenge of gathering science. The challenge was getting the craft there in the first place - a process that demands, and rewards, judicious use of timewarp. Sure. Many of the science gathering parts gain just as much effect from a flyby aboard an unmanned probe, as they do in a stable orbit with multiple astronauts there to "study" the experiments. I am not suggesting that you only collect science when the is a football game handy - but that science collection can be increased in effectiveness for a given instrument when other conditions are also met along with the collection - such as having a kerbal who can watch the goo react. The reason I suggested a duration is because it prompts the user to think about how the kerbal will fare over the course of the duration. For example: Are you in a stable orbit? No problem. Are you plunging into reentry? Not the best time to try and multiply your science - next time, shoot for a stable orbit. Is your SC-9001 attached to a spaceplane? You might try to get a "long reading" of the upper atmosphere of Kerbin, which could determine your fuel considerations, ship design, and recovery scenarios - this is very much the objective of career mode in the first place - design ships to gather science. Gathering enough science to unlock the complete tech-tree is, in my opinion, primarily a challenge for new players, but also provides some refreshing additional challenges for creative-mode experts. From a new-player perspective, launching a rocket straight up and letting it plummet back into Kerbin should not provide nearly the reward that achieving a stable orbit and returning it intact after a week of MET does.

I don't understand where you are getting this. What part of "science provides improved output when certain conditions are met" is making you want to watch football? I am not even suggesting a change to the way science currently works. I am suggesting added benefits for those who would enjoy the challenge of creating the conditions suitable for them - eg orbits vs flybys, landing multiple crew vs one, etc. You don't agree, that is fine, you don't have to like the idea - but based on the hypothetical boredom scenario you have outlined, your interpretation of what I am suggesting is simply incorrect.

I wholeheartedly agree, but this is about making science additive with interactions, not generate over time. For example, if you can "Observe Goo" at any given moment, that is fine - but being able to observe it in the same environment (in space high over kerbin) for a duration would give you increased, but limited amount of benefit. The additional challenge of establishing a stable orbit, preparing the craft for a deorbital burn, and returning it safely to Kerbin would be what earns you the extra science - not sitting around waiting for timewarp. This is even more significant on the other planets, where there must be a substantial consideration given to the design of a craft that (for maximum science-gathering effect) must be able to remain active, crewed, and transmitting from the surface of another world for a given period of time. Again - the time doesn't earn you anything - the challenge of building your ship to handle it does. This whole thing about "the game would become boring if an objective of the game was more easily achieved with time warp" is not fitting, since the objective of the game is space travel, which takes an inordinate amount of time, and thus, timewarp. Nothing I have suggested implies accumulating science by waiting, so I really don't know where you came up with that. I have seen plenty of other suggestions about it, which I disagree with - which is why I made the thread. The additional benefit that I am suggesting is about the challenge of creating an environment where long experiments can take place - not waiting out long experiments - we have time warp so that we can skip stuff that takes a long time. I am suggesting an additional challenge with additional rewards that help make science a more interactive part of gameplay.

I am glad we are being candid, but there is nothing here about doing any of these things. The idea is that all the different methods of gathering science ought to be improved with more player interaction. Nowhere is there a suggestion to walk away, sit around pressing a button, or timewarp to win, anywhere. For example, if you can pull off assigning a kerbal to an EVA project in the upper atmosphere of a planet for several minutes of flight-time (in game time) then you have accomplished a more significant challenge than simply timing your "observe goo" click to occur in the upper atmosphere while your ship plummets in from orbit. Likewise, if you establish a stable, low orbit around Dres, and take "long readings" from a piece of science equipment, you have done more significant work as a player than simply clicking the button and transmitting on a fly by. The idea is not to bore people to death with clicking buttons, but to allow players to gain more from science by taking on increased science gathering challenges. Challenges that, like all challenges in KSP, are creative player-driven decisions, and not mandatory.

I like this idea. Here's a tangent: For each "station" around a unique body in the solar system, transmitting data back to Kerbin gets a 10% science boost. This would make them a better boost for players who really need them (for example, when exploring far off worlds), and would eventually offset, and completely surpass the transmission penalty. I say "station" because it is really yet to be defined. I think a few folks suggested a number of kerbals/certain key equipment, which I think are great ideas.

For each type of science experiment, advantages should be accrued for time spent/actions taken. For example: Mystery Goo - Assigning a kerbal to stare at it / poke it with a space-stick could improve the results. About 30 minutes of that and you hit max multiplier. SC-9001 Science Jr. - The longer the experiments are exposed in the environment, the better, even further improved with a kerbal assigned to sniff/taste the results. GRAVMAX - Gain a bunch more science by letting the machine gather data for multiple orbits. PresMat - Gain a bunch of science by getting data from surface to orbit for a given planet. ... etc It could provide a reason to build space stations/satellites in career mode, where taking multi-year seismic samples might yield more and better science than just snapping a sample and taking off. I love the implementation of science, but I feel that collecting it is too simplistic.

The Oceans are not H2O: The liquid that makes up much of Kerbin's surface, and that dominates the surface of Laythe is most likely not water, as even girders and I-beams float on it's surface easily. The densities required to give H2O such an effect are not present on either planet. Kerbal Biology: Kerbals seem to be able to extrude parachutes and tires, as they can repair or repack missing/used/broken parachutes/tires without ever needing additional supplies.

I showed a friend the latest update, and he purchased it within 10 minutes. He said something I never really considered: "Creative-Mode games paralyze me. I never know why to do anything. Like survival mode in Minecraft, this gives your accomplishments so much more purpose." That said, I can't wait to see more! Thanks!