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[1.0.5] Kerbal Planetary Base Systems v1.0.2 Released!


Nils277

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Just noticed that the structural parts from mod are plaqued by heat-bug. I've got at least one part destroyed by it after each docking. SO tired of using KIS to repair the modules... Usually those quad adapters explode, or most frequently - that adapter for landing gears with fuel in it. Docking ports explode as well.

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Are you using mods that alter the heat system? e.g deadly reentry or something? It's the first time someone mentioned this problem with this mod.

Can you pm me a .craft file where this can be reproduced and a list of mods that you have installed?

Regarding the balancing of the TAC-LS containers: What would you say are balanced capacities for them?

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No I have heat control but that mod only adds some radiators, it doesn't alter mechanics when no single of its own parts is attached.

As for TAC... Hm, difficult to say. Now with 4 KErbals and ech of small containers (not all-in-one, but separate oxygen etc) my base lasts 560 days on food, 850 on water and 1232 on oxygen. I'd say they must be able to last around 1 month on food, 15 days on water and oxygen. Same for waste, 1 month of waste, 15 days of wste water and co2. Looks reasonable both from space point of view and from logistics. Of course, adding water purifier etc should make it last longer. That's all for 4 KeErbals.

Here's my mod list:


Assembly-CSharp v1.0.0.0 SHA256 ff2bbea35fb8bfab288a9674ad6314ad7afd151af26d06f85cd16fdd26b39c62
ModuleManager.2.6.7 v2.6.7.0 SHA256 98471342be4f4dd13c2562c96b78c23f2ba741070b5fdcdb5d1cdd5bf63ecaf3
ActiveTextureManagement v1.0.0.0 SHA256 91f726c3d1db5beda9a65a02852961e3ba8c8fd4362cc5aed35ac073574018c2
LibSquishPort v1.0.0.0 SHA256 25d13923eba685bece70039c0415160cdcc60d655bba7cba2039acbd47a38aeb
NvidiaTextureTools v1.0.0.0 SHA256 2a241b82200fe822a4be560ae5c3617b0e8f4c73cbee0b4bfd093b830af1c392
B9_Aerospace_WingStuff v1.0.0.0 SHA256 905c480b096bc4606c7c4458e0a4758d0349241c1e058c689508fef9c7a86c57
MiniAVC v1.0.3.0 SHA256 3a74237363b4c9739208c0420ecc04ead93f10bed39e82acad822317ffe04cc3
CritterCrawler v0.0.0.0 SHA256 71fe6b062d4d88818096aba47bf4655ca70bfec3c0c1124bc6bd362c2d4f7126
BDAnimationModules v0.0.0.0 SHA256 024822223d2d02f5b3c2db1c81bd400478c3c3a1ee17455768381153711e427d
BahaTurret v0.0.0.0 SHA256 c29048d66c0d1aae2a41b98f2db1745c0bae52f5e202f772c4d01001bfefb8e5
BetterBuoyancy v1.2.0.0 SHA256 bbdb493d26bc7a3018fe647b3599d84c7ec25ac74d45ef40c3aede563fc22c89
BurnTogether v0.0.0.0 SHA256 a82c7cb0c7664fa49b1eec09c9f5cafad8cb8a7bc668d16f47b92d7909d80ec8
CollisionFX v3.2.0.0 SHA256 4cc8a67c4c367a0e533128305b30830e4362c05366cb5394be2fb33316cc0852
CrossFeedEnabler v0.3.5609.39332 / v0.3.3.0 SHA256 2a383ac2297140fd64a11010c6102960109a916d8f2721b1f9af315bda67586c
DifferentialThrust v1.0.0.0 SHA256 7cfda3d68b31d2ba132b6e64adfc0b6a75b33b9d2acc6fca49b5f2f18bd258e9
DestructionEffects v0.0.0.0 SHA256 e28ba071ea4b5373b43ad08aa5e7c0e85c41cd0af0c38239d09a0d5b85cf40f7
DistantObject v1.5.5.20894 SHA256 d3f3c2816f1844543aedc6956967d1c93cb3cdd88c1862218feedb5c1feb2cdc
EngineLight v1.0.0.0 SHA256 c36a89249919a180ed906d0abd979fcf95a9a4cc8d2a4598b31358d524db1b57
MiniAVC v1.0.3.0 SHA256 3a74237363b4c9739208c0420ecc04ead93f10bed39e82acad822317ffe04cc3
ModularFlightIntegrator v1.0.0.0 / v1.1.1.0 SHA256 1113c18b6a4759b96dfd64673d94b18ec62d07cfc198d5976899710f5480af98
FerramAerospaceResearch v0.15.4.0 SHA256 0c4cdab4e3c23023b9342450ddc2fe1a31b84dbe8f3c59b8e5275b7b9be162fc
ferramGraph v1.3.0.0 SHA256 251a5f9bcbb342f40858ceab058bc91694bb14349ae6fd1df0c2cbf861332de8
Scale_Redist v1.0.0.0 SHA256 dab723459654573f4eb11ba5672856d616a683ab30d22547ee0f6edc91b507a8
Firespitter v7.1.5653.36452 SHA256 2a218eb875fa440e953d27a36a5a704c77f562e3f42d1ddf8a158e3ec90826e0
HeatControl v0.1.0.0 SHA256 a65907cd5b9ee81b9346338366b25114bac1b367eeddc9463779474d2b0ad1f5
MechJeb2 v2.5.1.0 / v2.5.3.0 SHA256 2e546ab525aaa22ca6e356f8290b295e47e0344ba87f62aa0e4d839d6a79a85c
RasterPropMonitor v0.17.0.0 / v0.19.4 SHA256 93973c552893223555a2e52e993716bc5dc644a19e7cd05192fa9fc1b5e2e859
MechJebRPM v0.17.0.0 / v0.19.4 SHA256 79c7326cce9acd3f3b76914acc513f75bd577745b6843616091257165dd282ba
KAS v0.5.4.0 / v0.5.4 SHA256 96122b9baee3697dcf3312b9393f13af709116753efebdff15e2590f7e918d40
MiniAVC v1.0.3.0 SHA256 3a74237363b4c9739208c0420ecc04ead93f10bed39e82acad822317ffe04cc3
KF_plugin v1.9.5708.38783 SHA256 fa592ddcf0f242a4c31d7bd7d8313e81dcc143bad4d586303a95d1270529e24e
TextureAnimator v1.0.0.0 SHA256 a794b78b35341c8f130f92192e4d8d2fe83386a39301738e06d88b3bf0bcf45c
KerbalJointReinforcement v3.1.2.0 SHA256 6f048160123e79823736f79539f371384946390b2f487b41b5f265ab628597a1
HyperEdit v0.0.0.0 SHA256 26abfa9840e6a43fa5a7ed56c19a326d57401e3cfafbdfaf6fc1159c2aadb335
KIS v1.2.1.0 / v1.2.1 SHA256 99628b6ff3c7c1f039d2c6880329179ed8b11c2f434f1fb6e9f1661f28877101
MiniAVC v1.0.3.0 SHA256 3a74237363b4c9739208c0420ecc04ead93f10bed39e82acad822317ffe04cc3
km_Gimbal v3.0.1.0 SHA256 363a378706c647e087af4b8a3827e7799c8272f706e7fe4160ff8292c17db801
PersistentRotation v1.0.0.0 SHA256 1ac6e4e1678e29eecaa77fa43871609fbc38f78416e046a7583e47c6ac8b60af
PilotAssistant v1.0.0.0 SHA256 078c9c600ce751ce431014903c9eade4c8ef9bbdfb3a846e8145b12c92704c68
PlanetarySurfaceStructures v1.0.0.0 SHA256 2b9ba692c2116f1b012540e9cc5f7c9c8b83da319cb187deb8b410f95a79dfa4
MiniAVC v1.0.3.0 SHA256 3a74237363b4c9739208c0420ecc04ead93f10bed39e82acad822317ffe04cc3
PlanetShine v1.0.5608.2143 SHA256 fe941fca322df5dfc84c004a6f07a6726ee56bc6cc912aba0a2f057fb2afe1c4
KSPAPIExtensions v1.7.4.0 SHA256 2d523c9d6862d609389347c61789be555607407318762bd736d267a86d2db32c
ProceduralFairings v0.0.0.0 SHA256 65e4150570ae1048e1a076055fd18a99941a1fd73a72d6cc5d6c0f5b1bcbbea8
RcsSounds v4.2.0.0 SHA256 157d138ad3685900e2ba544353dd32c2233d108c78dfc0e5e7f84d461d2fc3d4
scatterer v1.0.5677.22791 SHA256 7ad9b683d39fe4f29a89953824f3627884314da61a18dbff365232a7ce2efe65
SmokeScreen v2.6.7.0 SHA256 d3f604dd10e452aaf93847b0529a6850e00b37cda8460956c6fe157d081174bd
StockClamshellFairings v1.0.0.0 SHA256 8158f510f8d953bac2067a99f5dd20d3bf1cfdac836123df00162512e8fa4ce2
ThrottleControlledAvionics v2.3.0.1 SHA256 aa5495d2d34c297b4383c2cc6e76ea49ae6c0bdd3fb75d77a23d4ad476ab5092
KSPAPIExtensions v1.7.5.0 SHA256 426ede61f65241ad57aa6ac0998d5e5024d87e867dd5dcf493b36e7b6f62aa28
Scale v2.2.1.0 SHA256 b56d8dae089ad94e02102ff3046d91a46ab2950b44bcd3aa6bdd43727012aa21
Scale_Editor v1.0.0.0 SHA256 d17be391a1afb7f5ae930652924d87c816ca60ec49b4aae2c5899a99c8c5b746
Scale_Redist v1.0.0.0 SHA256 dab723459654573f4eb11ba5672856d616a683ab30d22547ee0f6edc91b507a8
UbioWeldingLtd v2.2.0.0 SHA256 073300266aaacfee3da79ac52f2f45b977118393df873e98f17f4f30922f1e13
VesselView v1.0.0.0 SHA256 f0959ba0d33aef434a280d4c927e278d13a04016d900934afb7e23b6ab554e56
VesselViewRPM v1.0.0.0 SHA256 5e032cf6719e9c9273ec4c29f596fc6c71515fbccffc592f52252e6fc40c45d2
VVDiscoDisplay v1.0.0.0 SHA256 9bdc0984ce0105183a1ae1e682379ab7281981d295a22829e7ee45c41db2bccd
VVPartSelector v1.0.0.0 SHA256 06a931504cbb0b0d817cad64b55eca9db5ed8f360c74b92b946a9be442818371
EVAParachutes v0.0.0.0 SHA256 d81282e3d6ff2d8417686a28b25c2f657b36ff1b1a38ca67ade96a95195d448d
FrementGUILib v1.0.0.0 SHA256 4c4b37fbcc12b210a3c1a44bdef81a1e29ef50d2f4975b015d736f05d6fd61fa
VanguardTechnologies v0.7.5112.36481 / v0.7.2.0 SHA256 088cfc592192fa56e4c6682ac6a725c627f62a541039f0123f321d10091d5a91
Workshop v0.9.6.0 / v0.9.6 SHA256 15d88d9553dedd12a7887923661522f2687e4dce6192283e31161bc61048b3bf
Non-DLL mods added (:FOR[xxx]):
RealPlume
KerbalFoundries
HotRockets
zRealPlume
zzRealPlume
SCANsat
TweakScale
Mods by directory (sub directories of GameData):
AdjustableLandingGear
Airstairs
B9_Aerospace
BahaSP
BDArmory
CommunityResourcePack
CommunityTechTree
CrowdSourcedScience
DavonTCsystemsMod
FantomWorks
JSI
KAX
KerbalDynamics
Kerbaltek
Klockheed_Martian_Gimbal
NearFutureSpacecraft
NorthKerbinWeaponry
OPT
PlanetaryBaseInc
prune-removers
Pruners
QuizTechAero
RealPlume-Stock
Squad
VenStockRevamp
VNG

- - - Updated - - -

Here are ships. Hyperedit them to Mun and try decoupling/reattaching modules in different configurations just to have the experiment clean.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2aal6kff76wfe78/VAB.rar?dl=0

They use some of mods from list aboe, be warned.

By the way, don't do it on launchpad - it'll blow up.

On a side note, having planetary construction labs for OSE workshops would be awesome. :P

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No I have heat control but that mod only adds some radiators, it doesn't alter mechanics when no single of its own parts is attached.

As for TAC... Hm, difficult to say. Now with 4 KErbals and ech of small containers (not all-in-one, but separate oxygen etc) my base lasts 560 days on food, 850 on water and 1232 on oxygen. I'd say they must be able to last around 1 month on food, 15 days on water and oxygen. Same for waste, 1 month of waste, 15 days of wste water and co2. Looks reasonable both from space point of view and from logistics. Of course, adding water purifier etc should make it last longer. That's all for 4 KeErbals.

Here's my mod list:[...]

- - - Updated - - -

Here are ships. Hyperedit them to Mun and try decoupling/reattaching modules in different configurations just to have the experiment clean.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2aal6kff76wfe78/VAB.rar?dl=0

On a side note, having planetary construction labs for OSE workshops would be awesome. :P

Two times WOW:

First on the capacity for the containers: This is waaaay less than the capacity of stock "stock" TAC containers. Even the smallest TAC oxygen container (the smallest hex-can) provides 24 days of oxygen. Have you tweaked them to be smaller?

Second: This is really long list of installed mods. The first thing a recognized war FAR. I have seen some bug reports that it can cause overheating on some parts. But i have to test this.

Thanks for the craft files. Can you tell me from which mods there are parts used? It would take ages figure out what mods i must install to be able to load the craft. as most of them don't indicate the mod they are coming from and your list is very long.

Edited by Nils277
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Tweaked? No. I've just installed latest TAC life support. Maybe you misunderstood me, I wrote how long 4 Kerbals should last on one small container.

Yeah, sure. OSE workshop. KIS, obviously. BDarmory - I've strapped radar just for fun, and for looks. Ven's stock revamp - for ladders and some other parts. This should be all in those crafts, unless I miss something.

FAR may or may not be a problem. AFAIK it only affects radiation.

Disabling conduction in f12 menu helped, but that's not a solution for long time.

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Okay thanks, i'll look into the the craft files. Strange that conduction causes this as there has to be a part already being heated up to conduct the heat to the others.

I also mentioned the duration for 4 Kerbals. I used the MK2 Crew cabin with full crew.

Strange, i have the newest version 0.11.1.20 from the official TAC thread. I also just reinstalled it now just to be sure. How long does the "Life Support Oxygen Container" from TAC last for you for one single Kerbal? (e.g only "MK1 Cockpit" and "Life Support Oxygen Container") For me it says: 1436d 05:25:49.

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I love these parts. Now a stock mod for me. :D

Cool :)

@sashan:

First of all, i have tried different docking combinations and could not cause the parts to overheat unfortunately.

But i had some other findings, that might cause the problem for you:

1. The battery in the Service Bay is connected to the adapter on its side, not to the service-bay itself, that causes some serious jitter that might cause overheating.

2. The "tower" in the Hub craft seems to not be connected correctly it wobbles around a lot. When i removed it in the VAB, the stack point for the 5-End gangway was gone and i had to replace it to get rid of the error.

I wonder why KSP sometimes decides to remove the stack points....

3. I really have to nerv the torque of the wheels. It was a bit difficult to drive on the mun with all the wheelies...:D

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@Sashan, @Nils227

There is a stock heating bug that affects low mass parts. The exact mass is probably variable with surface area maybe being a factor as well. Certain build configurations with stock struts (okto, girders, etc) are prone to overheating.

The issue is indeed linked to conduction and and the actual cause is probably math float errors. What happens is that that as heat is conducted between parts, the errors build up with temperature rising in the low mass parts as the heat oscillates back and forth.

Masses of 1kg or less are at risk.

Installations with Deadly Reentry should be mostly immune because the conduction factor is lowered to 3.3 (from a stock value of 20), so anyone having problems with overheating should lower conduction.

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Cool :)

@sashan:

First of all, i have tried different docking combinations and could not cause the parts to overheat unfortunately.

But i had some other findings, that might cause the problem for you:

1. The battery in the Service Bay is connected to the adapter on its side, not to the service-bay itself, that causes some serious jitter that might cause overheating.

Yeah, noticed that after launch. Fixed it with KIS - simply rebuilt the tower. IDK what is it caused by, some kind of bug, obviously. First overheating happened after I decoupled and driven away that lab with command module, the tower went away with it, floating. Then I rebuilt the tower with KIS

Overheating wasn't gone after that. Can you try it with FAR? FAR really makes that stock bug happen more often.

2. The "tower" in the Hub craft seems to not be connected correctly it wobbles around a lot. When i removed it in the VAB, the stack point for the 5-End gangway was gone and i had to replace it to get rid of the error.

I wonder why KSP sometimes decides to remove the stack points....

Have the same problem, seems completely random.

3. I really have to nerv the torque of the wheels. It was a bit difficult to drive on the mun with all the wheelies...:D

Now you get my feeling. :P

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Can you try it with FAR? FAR really makes that stock bug happen more often.

Have the same problem, seems completely random.

Now you get my feeling. :P

Yeah i'm going to try it with FAR. My only fear is that i can't really do much about this aside from lowering the conductivity. The parts you mentioned are as stock as they can be. They only use stock modules and are basically just plain 3d models with no difference to the stock ones.

The weird thing is i set the torque of the wheels to 25% of the torque of the weakest stock wheels and they still seem very powerful...

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Yeahm I understand that perfectly. I've noticed that using simpler colliders help as well, or maybe increase mass a little bit? THere are also manual cfg lines for setting thermal parameters, maybe try increasing them?

As for torque - I've noticed that too. Try this, should be a little bit better. The idea is to decrese torque with speed very fast, so that starting movement is not a problem but then it simply loses torque and can't apply enough force to overturn the vehicle. Also, I've increased steering. MAneuvering modules into place was difficult without that.

steeringCurve

{

key = 0 15

key = 15 5

}

torqueCurve

{

key = 0 100 0 0

key = 0.5 50 0 0

key = 5 0 0 0

}

I think the issue with wheels is with their colliders, or diameter, or something like that, in model setup.

Edited by sashan
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Have you used KIS to assemble those tubes?

Found a screenshot with my base, right after heat bug attack - you can seethe gaps where adapters were.

Ignore smoke, that's damagefx mod doing crazy things.

009GRho.png

Edited by sashan
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Yeahm I understand that perfectly. I've noticed that using simpler colliders help as well, or maybe increase mass a little bit? THere are also manual cfg lines for setting thermal parameters, maybe try increasing them?

As for torque - I've noticed that too. Try this, should be a little bit better. The idea is to decrese torque with speed very fast, so that starting movement is not a problem but then it simply loses torque and can't apply enough force to overturn the vehicle. Also, I've increased steering. MAneuvering modules into place was difficult without that.

I think the issue with wheels is with their colliders, or diameter, or something like that, in model setup.

Hmm increasing the thermal mass should also help there. I will increase it, as well as decrease the conductivity for the parts.

What parts exactly are affected? I know you mentioned the Adapters and the Docking Ports. Any parts else?

I really hope this will fix the error. I can't even reproduce it with FAR installed...also moved the part with the Lab around, but it didn't help.

The next update will take a maybe 1-2 weeks in though, i have a lot of other things to do at the moment :wink:

I have changed the torque of the wheels and they work well on the mun now, but i still have to test of they still have enough torque to be usable on the planets with very high gravity...e.g. Eve.

I just finished by new refinery base on Minmus using this mod :cool:

http://i.imgur.com/ZQBEUNz.jpg

Looks cool :D How did you get these huge parts to minus? I assume the tanks were empty when they landed? :D

Welcome to the forums btw. :)

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Yes, adapters for wheels, docking ports, 1.25m adapters, pipe junction adapters (so far had it happen with cross-shaped and 5-way ones). I'll check it when I get OSE workshop working, but other pipe segments should be able to cause it as well.

THe bug seems random, it may also be caused by some certain physics slowdown values, etc. Hardware dependant, cause each non-high-end PC runs KSP at different slowdown speeds.

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Hmm increasing the thermal mass should also help there. I will increase it, as well as decrease the conductivity for the parts.

What parts exactly are affected? I know you mentioned the Adapters and the Docking Ports. Any parts else?

I really hope this will fix the error. I can't even reproduce it with FAR installed...also moved the part with the Lab around, but it didn't help.

Be aware that lowering conductivity may solve this issue but it will also cause other overheating issues such as during reentry.

Lowering conductivity is part of how the current incarnation of Deadly Reentry works. (by preventing heat from escaping the part)

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, adapters for wheels, docking ports, 1.25m adapters, pipe junction adapters (so far had it happen with cross-shaped and 5-way ones). I'll check it when I get OSE workshop working, but other pipe segments should be able to cause it as well.

THe bug seems random, it may also be caused by some certain physics slowdown values, etc. Hardware dependant, cause each non-high-end PC runs KSP at different slowdown speeds.

Would you mind posting your ModuleManager.ConfigCache please? It will show all changes made by other mods (except for ones that make changes by plugin instead of MM config) as well as showing the state of your physics settings.

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Be aware that lowering conductivity may solve this issue but it will also cause other overheating issues such as during reentry.

Lowering conductivity is part of how the current incarnation of Deadly Reentry works. (by preventing heat from escaping the part)

Would you mind posting your ModuleManager.ConfigCache please? It will show all changes made by other mods (except for ones that make changes by plugin instead of MM config) as well as showing the state of your physics settings.

Yeah, this kinda only relovates the problem but does not solve it. Increasing the thermal mass would also only increase the time the parts takes to overheat as it can "store" more heat. But it still will explode because of overheating eventually. Also the part will cool down slower then....All solutions i can think of only relocate the problem but do not solve it. I think the low mass of the part would als not be the reason, The weight of the adapter is 100kg and so way more then the small structural parts....still the floating-point errors are the most plausible explanation.

Okay, here it is.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dv4npju3bn67t3l/ModuleManager.ConfigCache?dl=0

EDIT: Apparently 2.5m bicoupler also prone to overheating. Repairing my damn orbital construction station on asteroid now...

Seems like many of the parts seem to overheat.

I observed the bug when trying out the example "SpaceShuttel" from FAR it's booster overheat on the launchpad within seconds in my game.

FAR is a very popular mod, so i think that many others also have it installed. Are there any others having these issues?

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Okay, here it is.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dv4npju3bn67t3l/ModuleManager.ConfigCache?dl=0

EDIT: Apparently 2.5m bicoupler also prone to overheating. Repairing my damn orbital construction station on asteroid now...

Ok, I don't see anything abnormally wrong there, and the Base parts look about the way they do on my install.

Though, like I said earlier (I don't know if you saw it) I do think the stock conductivity factor of 20 is way way too high, at least in light of the stock reheating issues.

I think you ought to be dropping it down to 3 or so.

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You should take a look at the Enhanced IVA tech demo. This mod lets you move around a craft while in IVA. Crafts like a planetary base of some sorts. It is still WIP so it takes some time before it becomes a serious mod, but I wanted you to know about it so maybe (far along the line), we could see compatability with this mod.

here is the forum thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/131439-WIP-Enhanced-IVA-%28unreleased%29

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Looks cool :D How did you get these huge parts to minus? I assume the tanks were empty when they landed? :D

Welcome to the forums btw. :)

Thank you! I brought the base to Minmus in eight parts with six launches (not including the tanker which is docked to the landing pad to the right). Those tanks were empty of course :D

All parts had detachable wheels which allowed me to dock them on the surface.

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Small test of base for Duna combining Planetary Base System and Stockalike Station Parts Expansion. Both fit perfectly together :)

1440326814-screenshot83-2.jpg

The wheels are a great addition, allowing to assemble easily at the arrival the elements of the base.

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Heeeey...

As the silliest little enhancement ever, could the Science modules telescope slide to point outwards properly when the module is activated to do some science?

Totally pointless... but it'd look cute :D

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