The KPS vs the KSP

[tranenturm]

Recently I've been getting the feeling that I'm not really running the Kerbal Space Program, but the Kerbal Penal System.

Let's see:

Orange jump suits

Long imprisonment in tiny spaces possibly spanning decades.

Dangerous working conditions.

Possible death sentence.

Is it just me?

[HoloYolo]

Wow you have a dark mind, but it makes sense.

[Temeter]

Oh, I expected a Kerbals per Second post. That would have been dark.

[Xacktar]

Did someone say space prison?

I've thought the same thing before.

Actually, that idea was a big part of the Kerb Kerman show.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Xacktar

[klgraham1013]

I try to rotate crew, just to make myself feel better about it. I have to much empathy for my Kerbals.

[Tex_NL]

A golden oldie: The Kerban Max-Security Prison Challenge

[Geschosskopf]

Recently I've been getting the feeling that I'm not really running the Kerbal Space Program, but the Kerbal Penal System.

Let's see:

Orange jump suits

Long imprisonment in tiny spaces possibly spanning decades.

Dangerous working conditions.

Possible death sentence.

Is it just me?

Well, in my universe where society is modeled on Georgian England, the pressgang is the main "recruiting" method so in that sense, yes, I unashamedly run a prison system. But OTOH, it's a win-win. Kerbal society at home is improved by shipping reprobates to distant planets while the reprobates actually contribute something to society instead of being hanged or dying in the gutters where the pressgangs find them. Out of fear of the pressgang, rather than the direct impact of the few Kerbals it actually takes, Kerbin is listed in the august Hitchkiker's Guide to the Galaxay as having unemployment and crime rates amongst the lowest in known space.

[Hotblack Desiato]

life sentence on prison planet eve.

just one capsule for 3 kerbals, drifting around on the oceans of eve. no chance to escape.

[Geschosskopf]

life sentence on prison planet eve.

What about being assigned to pump gas on Vall for all eternity? Rockets capable of taking the pressed Kerbal home land there and he has to refuel them for the trip home but can never board them

[PB666]

Recently I've been getting the feeling that I'm not really running the Kerbal Space Program, but the Kerbal Penal System.

Let's see:

Orange jump suits

Long imprisonment in tiny spaces possibly spanning decades.

Dangerous working conditions.

Possible death sentence.

Is it just me?

kerbals have a different social standard. Think about it like this, no human has ever traveled farther fr om the earth than the far side low lunar orbit of the apollo missions, a week away from earth. The longest station deployment IIRC is around a year.

I managed to get maxed ou Kerbal sci in Normal mode in one kerbin year, with Valentina spending a majorty of the year going back and fotrth to the mun a minmus (Jeb minding the sci fuel station), kerbin year is 400 days but 6 hour kerbin days so that is roughly 100 days the pair spent in space. A Mars mission to a returnable mienos would take 2 or more years, you prolly could do a venus flyby in less time but such a mission is pointless. A mars landing mission proper assuming that fuel could be synthesis on Mars would take a decade. A ceres mission might take 5 years, but current rockets lack the effeciency to execute a direct hohmann transferi, landing, and direct hohmann return. So realistically we are prolly talking abou a 15 to 20 year mission with of Pe-gravity boost on Mars and earth to to get there and back. This mission is currently not poosible for biological reasons. The currently propsed mars missions are all suicide missions. IOW, a one way trip, no prospect of expanding a colony no prospect of having reproductively fit offspring.

note that the early apollo missions were dangerous, and 2 of the Russian astronauts were aphixiated when the capsule failed to sustain pressure during reentry.

KSP would follow a model of a militarized space program.

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What about being assigned to pump gas on Vall for all eternity? Rockets capable of taking the pressed Kerbal home land there and he has to refuel them for the trip home but can never board them

Eve surface to LEO transported system. Beam me up Jebby!

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Well, in my universe where society is modeled on Georgian England, the pressgang is the main "recruiting" method so in that sense, yes, I unashamedly run a prison system. But OTOH, it's a win-win. Kerbal society at home is improved by shipping reprobates to distant planets while the reprobates actually contribute something to society instead of being hanged or dying in the gutters where the pressgangs find them. Out of fear of the pressgang, rather than the direct impact of the few Kerbals it actually takes, Kerbin is listed in the august Hitchkiker's Guide to the Galaxay as having unemployment and crime rates amongst the lowest in known space.

I was thinking the same thing, vagrancy laws followig the onset of the little ice age....the use of petty crimes to colonize undeveloped regions of the world. Not to mention the use of colonial endentured servitude as the only real alternative to oppression of the lower stations and was the prelude to slavery in the Americas. The practice of kidnapping people in ports and using them as ship labor selling them as excessively coerced labor on west coast ports. Of course we also have the military draft during the Korean and Vietnam Wars. Fair number of forced marriages in many societies. During the late colonial period in China people were literally selling thier bodies as meat to buy their family out of heroin-related debt. Current penal system is an amusement park compared to some forms of coercian.

[Geschosskopf]

The currently propsed mars missions are all suicide missions. IOW, a one way trip, no prospect of expanding a colony no prospect of having reproductively fit offspring.

Not to mention that until we develop propulsion to the point where LEO is effectively on the surface, so that we can actually send the equivalent of immigrant ships (hundreds to thousands of people with all their household goods per ship with hundreds of such ships leaving annually), and actually have jobs and home lives for colonists when they get there, the whole notion of humanity colonizing space is ludicrous. This is what the dreamers fail to realize. There are all sorts of good ideas for moving stuff in high volume from LEO to anywhere we want. Some of them might actually work. But getting meaningful quantities of people and their stuff to LEO is never going to happen, even with foreseeable technology.

Get used to Earth. There ain't no leaving it except for meaningless flags and footprints.

TOPIC SAVE: And this is why I enjoy KSP, because LKO is no big problem. I have no idea at all why anybody plays it RSS or any other rescale because any step in that direction just clips the wings of an imaginary universe where meaningful space colonization is possible.

I was thinking the same thing, vagrancy laws followig the onset of the little ice age....the use of petty crimes to colonize undeveloped regions of the world. Not to mention the use of colonial endentured servitude as the only real alternative to oppression of the lower stations and was the prelude to slavery in the Americas. The practice of kidnapping people in ports and using them as ship labor selling them as excessively coerced labor on west coast ports. Of course we also have the military draft during the Korean and Vietnam Wars. Fair number of forced marriages in many societies. During the late colonial period in China people were literally selling thier bodies as meat to buy their family out of heroin-related debt. Current penal system is an amusement park compared to some forms of coercian.

Actually, the origins of slavery in the Americas are rather more complex than that. But this ain't the place to discuss that subject.

Still, as you say, even pressgangs aren't that bad compared to some social institutions.

[KerikBalm]

#1) Most of my Kerbals were saved by me, so they owe me. The rest volunteered (sure I paid none of them )

#2) So far in career, its all work within kerbin's SOI, with the exception of brief trips just outsdie it to get another 4 XP... years long missions are unmanned so far.

I rotate crews for the purpose of leveling up my kerbals... they don't stay very long... of course the minmus missions are the longest.

#3) As soon as the Duna launch window comes, I have ships waiting to launch - going by the rule that I won't launch a manned mission until a probe has visited it... so its not as "dangerous" (probes launched on high dV trajectories outside of launch windows).

These missions have space for >12, but I only send 6.

2 pilots, 2 engineers, 2 scientists.... half male, half female (1 of each gender for specialization)

They all have a colleague of the opposite ...... doens't sound like a penal system to me

[justidutch]

As an alternative to sending your malcontent Kerbals into space in the vain hope they will even attempt to do something worthwhile, you can just send them to Australia.

[Terwin]

I suppose it depends on how you run your space program.

Early on, I had a number of one Kerbal flights, but none more than a few days long.

Except for my Duna mission (currently on day 55 with ~200 days until Duna SOI), my longest missions were my Minmus+Kerbol training missions which were probably in the neighborhood of 2 weeks(14 kerbal days so less than 100 hours), and there was plenty of company. (Currently on day 110)

I would need to check, but I think the first Duna mission was gender balanced. My second Duna mission (less than 6 hours old) is somewhat less balanced(F engineer, M+F scientists, F tourist + 5M tourists), but that is primarily due to the tourists(with the male tourists mostly relegated to the Hitchhiker can), so I don't feel too bad about those who are paying for cheap seats to go on a long trip without all the comforts of home.

My professionals(press-ganged or not) are well taken care of and well trained(> 30 at 3 stars with none hired).

I just need to find something to do with the ones staying in the Kerbin SOI besides rescues, or there may not be room left at the KSC for the Duna explorers when they come home...

[Overland]

Cant be much worse than Kerbaliner Train Program..

over 2 years in realworld operation and only 2 stations have ever been reached..

most trains...terminate at thier final stop

not just the service but everyone onboard..usually in bits