Planning on Moving to Different Country

[Astronut25]

The only jobs available here pay so little that one needs to be on welfare just to survive. And the political and social climates are...off-putting you could say.

Currently I am considering Denmark primarily, Sweden and Norway are the runner-ups (I'd consider others too). My only problem with Denmark is purely geographical (its too flat).

I understand that moving to a different country can be very difficult. Which is why I plan on going as a student to make the transition smoother. Not as an exchange student though, since I'm not planning on returning to my current country.

This is the first time I've considered something like this and have no idea where to start.

[longbyte1]

What country do you currently live in?

[Tex_NL]

The embassy of the country you might want to move to can can give you an enormous amount of info.

Pretty much all civilized countries have embassies. And all can be easily found on the internet. Simply mail or call them and ask for relevant information.

And if you can't find the appropriate embassy you could always ask at your local town hall.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Tex_NL

[Astronut25]

Thanks for the info, unfortunately the closest embassies for the countries I'm thinking about is about 3,000 driving miles away. I guess I'll try the town hall first (I've got a bit of a phone phobia that I've not been able to get rid of yet).

What country do you currently live in?

United States. Oregon to be more precise on location.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Astronut25

[Elthy]

You should inform about the immigration laws in the countrys. E.g. in Germany they are a huge mess, lots of different, very specific ways to immigrate...

[Flymetothemun]

Only sites I could find:

Swedish Migration Agency: http://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals.html

New to Denmark: http://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-us/

Norwegian Directorate of Immigration: http://www.udi.no/en/

Although you may not want to move to a completely different country. The US is a MASSIVE country, and I'm sure there's a town here that has the political/social climate and job market that you're looking for. You also make it sound like you don't have too much money. Well, if you don't have a lot of money, why would you want the expense of moving almost halfway around the world? And moving to another country is one of the biggest decision you could ever make, I'd say it's up there with the decision to marry somebody and the decision of what to give to who in your will. I'm not trying to put you off of your course, just be sure to weigh all the options and give them their time in the spotlight. This is NOT a decision to be rash about, and to hasten it is only going to make thing worse for you.

And as for you being a student, well, EVERY COLLEGE STUDENT IS POOR. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. Unless you come from a rich family (especially an old money family) you're gonna have a crap job and low income as a college student.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Flymetothemun

[Torgo]

Where in Oregon? I went to college in Eugene and worked for a couple years in Salem and Portland before a company in NJ recruited me and paid for me to move. There were tons of jobs around then.

What's your skill set? What kind of work are you looking to do?

[TheSaint]

When I was 28 years old I was single, stuck in a dead-end job, and going nowhere. And I had a bad case of wanderlust. So I moved to South Africa. Lived there for two years. So I speak from first-hand experience.

If you're moving to another country you will spend a staggering amount of money. Plane tickets, shipping fees, housing costs, it will add up quickly. I went into it thinking it was going to be expensive, and I had no idea.

When you get there, a lot of the things you take for granted here will be unavailable to you. Like getting a credit card. Or a loan of any kind for that matter. Nobody wants to loan money to someone who can just skip out of the country and never come back. Go figure.

Getting a job can be problematic. All this furor you see about illegal aliens getting work in the United States? We're pussycats compared to most other places. Your best bet is to have a job lined up before you get there. If you're going as a student they'll probably want to know how you plan on paying for your education while you're there (without having a job). I was lucky, because South Africa was experiencing the Brain Drain at the time, so they were desperate for tech people. I got a Work Seekers permit, which meant that I could come down for 90 days to look for a job, and if I found one it was automatically converted to a one-year work visa. (I'll bet Denmark isn't that desperate.)

I did find a job, and stayed there for two years. I went through one of the hardest periods of my life (which isn't really relevant to the conversation), but I made a lot of great friends and had an amazing experience. But by the end of two years I was ready to go home. By the time I paid all my bills off and bought my tickets, I arrived home with two suitcases of clothes and some change in my pocket. If I hadn't had a friend who let me sleep on his couch for six months I probably would have wound up on the street. But, I would do it all over again in a heartbeat. It was worth every penny, tear, and drop of blood.

So, if you're young, single, and unattached and looking for a wonderful experience to broaden your mind and horizons, I highly recommend moving to another country for a couple of years. If you think it's going to make you rich, I think you're smoking dope. If you want to get ahead in life, learn a marketable skill and move somewhere in the US where that skill is in demand. (If you want to get rich, learn a trade in the petroleum industry and move to North Dakota, quick, before the boom collapses.) No matter which way you fall politically there's somewhere for you in the US. If you fall one way, move to California. If you fall the other, move to Texas. Moving to Scandinavia is going to create a lot more problems than it solves.

[longbyte1]

Well, you should be glad you live in the US. It's a big place, and there are many who are poor who can't immigrate and get a job because they can't afford the necessary education in their place of origin. I don't think you want to move to another country just because you do not have a good job.

Many people only think of the jobs within their city or state. I'll challenge you to something, if you don't mind driving a lot: save up some money, take your things, and go on an adventure. Have a plan, a particular industry that you want to visit in a certain state, and have a look at cities that you cross in your journey for a job.

What education do you have? Just a high school degree? A vast majority of people in the US are in the same situation as you. But everybody has a talent, and it's up to you to discover what it is.

For example, my talent is in technology. Even if I was a high school dropout and nobody in my city wanted to hire me as a programmer, I could (in theory) start making and selling software in my trailer. Find something people want and a way to meet that demand.

[Bill Phil]

Maybe you should look at other locations within your current country as well. Some towns and cities actually have good jobs and people.

The only problem I can see depends on your education. Do you have a college degree or are working on one? Which degree? Cater to that in your decision.

I say to consider another location in your current country because moving to another country is fairly difficult.

[Astronut25]

TheSaint, thanks, I was hoping to hear from someone who has tried this. My reasons are wanderlust, I love their music, architecture, and when I do start a family it would be in a better place than here. I've seen and heard far too much to be comfortable here, I don't want my future children to deal with the issues I've had to.

I have a handful of friends who were forced to quit for the simple offense of going to church on the wrong day (there are loopholes in the laws). On top of that, my demographic is tied with the most hated in America (oddly there is a PubMed article on it) and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Bill Phil, I unfortunately couldn't afford a degree (until recently), but I was working on Aeronautical Engineering. I've even held a position in that industry for 5 years and they loved my performance.

Some of the big issues I have with America are on the national level. Though I would consider staying here if I found something suitable.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Astronut25

[TheSaint]

Well, I still think you are overreacting. Granted, I'm not walking in your shoes, but I still think there is room here for everyone. If you're in aerospace, you can find a job in Los Angeles, Seattle, Atlanta, Houston, all kinds of nice, clean, cosmopolitan places with high standards of living. But, if you are set on your course, here are some additional pointers:

- It's going to be really expensive. Yeah, I said this before, but I can't emphasize it enough. You think it's going to be just pack a backpack, throw your laptop in a carry-on, and hop on the plane. Nope. You have a lot of stuff here that you need to take care of one way or another. It's more stuff than you think it is, trust me. You either need to sell it, donate it, chuck it, store it, or ship it. Some stuff you won't be able to part with. Storing it here, if you're never coming back, is not an option. Shipping it is silly expensive. You'll find yourself doing nonsensical things like looking at random household items like dishes and bed sheets and thinking, "How much do those cost per kilogram?" When you get there, you have to find a place to live. Once you find that place to live, you will need to buy all kinds of stuff that looks just like the stuff you sold or threw away a few short weeks ago. This will seem ridiculous to you, but in reality you're doing it because it is cheaper than trying to ship it. Second-hand stores will become like a second home to you.

- All the pointers for finding a job in the States apply to finding a job overseas, just doubly so. You have to come up with a compelling reason why they should hire you instead of someone from their own country. Most of the time there will be a legal definition of what constitutes a compelling reason. You need to figure out what skills they need, learn them, then market yourself as a person who can provide those skills. Depending on what their immigration laws are like, you may have to have a job offer in hand before you even apply for a visa. And you may think that it's easier to apply as a student, but a lot of places will require you to show a plan for payment for your entire course of education before they will issue a student visa. If you're having trouble making ends meet in Oregon, my guess is that you won't be able to pull that off. And getting a student visa doesn't mean you'll get residency when you're done. You still have to find a job and get a work visa afterwards. In South Africa they were desperate for technical workers to come there and stay there, and I was still amazed at the hoops I had to jump through. I can't imagine what they're like in a place like Denmark or Sweden.

- When you get there, don't do anything crazy. Don't go marching into the U.S. Embassy on day 2 and renounce your citizenship. Don't burn your passport. Keep your options open. After living in South Africa for just a couple of months I realized that I knew nothing about South Africa. Everything I had learned or heard about it was biased one way or another. Now, after having lived there for two years, I hear people back here in the States talk about South Africa and they all sound like morons. (And then they, people who have never even set foot on the African continent, will argue with me and try to tell me what things were really like while I was living down there. Amazing hubris. But I digress.) Anyway, all that to say that you may think that Denmark (or wherever you end up) is the place for you, but you may get there and discover that it isn't the place you thought it was. Don't burn your bridges until you're sure.

- Speaking of your passport: When you are overseas, keep your passport on your person at all times. Maintaining possession of your passport is second only to maintaining your oxygen habit. It is more important than your wallet. (In fact, don't keep it with your wallet, keep it somewhere safer where a pickpocket won't look for it, like your front pocket, or your sock.) If something goes down and you find yourself in trouble, that passport is your Get Out of Jail Free card. It spells the difference between the most powerful nation on Earth doing everything it can to help you, and you just being another face in the crowd begging for the last seat on the helicopter. And you don't know when something is going to go down. So keep it with you. Always.

That's all I can think of right now.

[SUJETO]

i live in south america, lived in other country... After all you must know where you will live. Because you have a lot of " dreams " to your life in other country... Not is the same visiting "mode", than working or studding mode, because there are a lot of differences and the attitude of the people changes too. There are few or more laws to follow.. requirements, documents, to work or have a job... First of all go to VISIT the country that you want to live, stay a long period of vacation and ask... Before making a decision.

The world is far to be a dream place and far to be perfect in all sides of the world are advantages and problems. Investigate first. and Ask to you want do you want in other country to live or stay.

[Nibb31]

The only jobs available here pay so little that one needs to be on welfare just to survive. And the political and social climates are...off-putting you could say.

Beware of the greener pastures on the other side of the fence. Pay levels and the cost of living are structured completely differently in the US compared to Europe. For example, qualified jobs are better paid in the US, but you have to pay for a lot of stuff that is free or subsidized in Europe. When looking at a European paycheck, depending on the country, 20 to 30% is usually substracted for taxes, social security, healthcare, retirement funds, etc... so there is a pretty big difference between gross and net salary.

And you have to look at the whole cost of living thing: Most products are more expensive in Europe than in the US and housing varies wildly depending on where you live.

Immigration laws in Europe are tough. Check with your local embassies and consulates to get an idea. There are differences between EU countries, but you can start with the consulates that are close to you to get a basic idea of what's possible and what isn't:

https://embassy-finder.com/in_portland-oregon_usa

On the other hand, studying in a foreign country as an exchange student is a great experience and will by highly valued when you apply for your first job, even if you decide to go back to the US.