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Cloakedwand72

Saturn V Third stage lander storage?

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Payload bay in a Shuttle, Spacecraft Lunar Module Adapter for the Saturn V.

Or just payload fairing for most rockets.

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1 minute ago, Bill Phil said:

Payload bay in a Shuttle, Spacecraft Lunar Module Adapter for the Saturn V.

Or just payload fairing for most rockets.

Ok cool! Now I know! Btw what's that one called for the SLS version though? I see the SLS in lunar lander configs .

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3 minutes ago, Cloakedwand72 said:

Ok cool! Now I know! Btw what's that one called for the SLS version though? I see the SLS in lunar lander configs .

Block 1 can't launch an Apollo style mission - too little payload to TLI. Probably just a fairing.

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3 minutes ago, Cloakedwand72 said:

Still not really enough mass. Only Block 2 rivals the Saturn V's TLI payload, and even then, Orion doesn't have the Delta-V if it brought a lander along. And that's assuming Block 2 even flies.

Edited by Bill Phil

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Just now, Bill Phil said:

Still not really enough mass. Only Block 2 rivals the Saturn V's TLI payload, and even then, Orion doesn't have the Delta-V if it brought a lander along.

Did you read it was a inflatable lunar lander at least the crewed part?

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3 minutes ago, Cloakedwand72 said:

Did you read it was a inflatable lunar lander at least the crewed part?

Still not really enough mass. Orion is over 25 tons. Block 1b Crew may only be able to launch 34 tons to TLI, 37 if they're lucky. That gives a lander mass of around 9 tons (ideally) or 12 tons (ideally), and Orion still can't brake that into a low enough lunar orbit and have enough Delta-V to return. Remember, the Apollo LM was around 15 tons at launch (maybe more), and still only put two people on the surface with relatively little equipment. And that was already made as light as was practical. Inflatable habitats might help the issue somewhat, but the astronauts were already riding a vehicle made as light as possible. We'd probably get more benefits from shrinking the computers, really. 

It'd be better to split this. Maybe even launch a large lander to TLI, around 30 tons, and then the Orion. Rendezvous in deep space. Now we have a large lander that can actually give us more capability than the Apollo LM. Takes two launches though...

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14 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

Still not really enough mass. Orion is over 25 tons. Block 1b Crew may only be able to launch 34 tons to TLI, 37 if they're lucky. That gives a lander mass of around 9 tons (ideally) or 12 tons (ideally), and Orion still can't brake that into a low enough lunar orbit and have enough Delta-V to return. Remember, the Apollo LM was around 15 tons at launch (maybe more), and still only put two people on the surface with relatively little equipment. And that was already made as light as was practical. Inflatable habitats might help the issue somewhat, but the astronauts were already riding a vehicle made as light as possible. We'd probably get more benefits from shrinking the computers, really. 

It'd be better to split this. Maybe even launch a large lander to TLI, around 30 tons, and then the Orion. Rendezvous in deep space. Now we have a large lander that can actually give us more capability than the Apollo LM. Takes two launches though...

But couldn't Nasa rent a a New Glenn to send a 30 ton lunar lander to TLI? And then send that low powered SLS?

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1 hour ago, Cloakedwand72 said:

But couldn't Nasa rent a a New Glenn to send a 30 ton lunar lander to TLI? And then send that low powered SLS?

I doubt New Glenn could send 30 tons to TLI... but maybe 15 and some change. SLS could launch an  Orion. 

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Falcon Heavy or New Glenn could probably manage about 15t to TLI. That's still less capable than the Apollo lunar lander because it needs to insert into lunar orbit/decent from trans-earth velocity somehow and on Apollo the service module did that.

LMFAOROFL at "that low powered SLS"! Pretty much.

SLS block 1 has more nominal payload to TLI than that spacex or blue origin, but it can't dual manifest payloads and Orion is a mandatory component so that extra mass amounts to diddly squat. It will never have the launch cadence to support a rendezvous mission with another SLS payload.

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2 hours ago, RCgothic said:

Falcon Heavy or New Glenn could probably manage about 15t to TLI. That's still less capable than the Apollo lunar lander because it needs to insert into lunar orbit/decent from trans-earth velocity somehow and on Apollo the service module did that.

LMFAOROFL at "that low powered SLS"! Pretty much.

SLS block 1 has more nominal payload to TLI than that spacex or blue origin, but it can't dual manifest payloads and Orion is a mandatory component so that extra mass amounts to diddly squat. It will never have the launch cadence to support a rendezvous mission with another SLS payload.

If we use hypergolics the lander could be launched first and hibernate for a couple years.

Might be a better program than LOP-G. But a lander would have to be developed....

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Yeah, I'm fairly sure it's just "fairing" or "adapter".

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