The Shuttle Discussion Forum!

[bs1110101]

It can work with more then one, if they're right next to each other.

[Pixel of Life]

Yeah I don't know what to do either. I have been trying to build a space shuttle in KSP but even when I make sure the center of thrust is going directly through the center of mass, it doesn't seem to work.

That happens because of the booster tanks emptying more quickly than the orbiter's tanks, thus moving the C of G so that it is no longer lined up with the center of thrust. This causes asymmetric thrust and makes the shuttle flip.

What we need is a plugin that makes engines drain fuel from each tank in such a way that the shuttle stays balanced. Alternatively, WAY more gimbal range and Fly-By-Wire.

I've been coding a FBW system but haven't been able to get the plugin to control the craft on its own. I'll figure it out eventually (hopefully).

[Nibb31]

I'm uncertain of the benefits of th NASA shuttle design, it seems strange to waste some thrust steering like that. Unless someone can explain why they decided to make it work as it did?

The whole point of the STS design was to bring the engines back, because they are the most expensive parts on a rocket. If they had put them on the bottom of the tank, with the orbiter on top, the engines would have had to be expendable, like on Buran. The only way was to put the engines, attached to the Orbiter, on the side.

[bs1110101]

The whole point of the STS design was to bring the engines back, because they are the most expensive parts on a rocket. If they had put them on the bottom of the tank, with the orbiter on top, the engines would have had to be expendable, like on Buran. The only way was to put the engines, attached to the Orbiter, on the side.

This is true, though it's much harder to fly then a Buran-style shuttle, and, like the real space shuttle, you need most of your lift off thrust coming from boosters on the external tank, or the whole thing flips.

Buran-style shuttles, on the other hand, can be used without much of the thrust coming from the boosters, or with no boosters at all, if you have the delta v.

[SkyHook]

This is true, though it's much harder to fly then a Buran-style shuttle, and, like the real space shuttle, you need most of your lift off thrust coming from boosters on the external tank, or the whole thing flips.

Buran-style shuttles, on the other hand, can be used without much of the thrust coming from the boosters, or with no boosters at all, if you have the delta v.

So what exactly did the Buran do to stay on balance? Was it just very heavy? Or did it gimbal like normal?

[Dr. Muttonstache]

I made this all stock (except for the cockpit, its the version with the IVA view!) shuttleish design, albeit it sits on top of a rocket.

[Nibb31]

Buran's boosters weren't at an 90° angle to the Orbiter, they were arranged around the core to compensate for the offset CoM, and the core could gimbal, of course.

[RocketPilot573]

I tried to make a Space Shuttle once, it didn't go so well...

[RoboRay]

I mounted the shuttle engines on Damned Robotics hinges so I could adjust their angle throughout the flight to compensate for the shifting CoM, once. It worked, but was too much of a PitA to do on a regular basis, so I scrapped the design.

I may try it again at some point, but I tend to prefer horizontal launches for winged craft.

Edited May 14, 2013 by RoboRay

[bs1110101]

on mine at least, the same thing the shuttle did, just the other way and not as much

[AngelLestat]

Dr. Muttonstache: Cute shuttle. What do you had in the center container or tank? fuel? how much left when you reach orbit?

RocketPilot573: That is the problem we all have when we try to copy the USA shuttle, "center of lift", and more difficult is do it with stock parts. (no cargo, no throttle steering, no robotic parts). KSP is not shuttle friendly.

bs1110101: Small shuttle compared to that big rocket XD

My first shuttle I did with the munox pod (can transport 18 kerbals) and the cargo hold mod. This shuttle can transport 10 tons and back to a space station at 100k orbit.

But it does not look so well, and i dont know if it works with deadly re-entry mod.

My second shuttle was using the B9 fancy design, i had to said that was hard to make this thing fly. I have many fails.

desing to work:

After I reach the actual design that I am using but it need some extra work at effiency and with the deadly re-entry.

Now I will share what I learn about all this.

First we need to search a design that is easy to land after re-entry, so you need to do a lot of atmosphere test.

The best way that I found to reduce the fuel consuption is using this launcher that I did with jet engines:

(Here is landing after launch the main craft)

You can try it if you want, here is the file with the short explanation, full stock.

als-spider.zip

If you wanna use the re-entry mod, you have 2 problems.

Your jet engines cant handle heat, so if they are not behind some fuselaje or tank they will explode.

If you have some wings in front, you cant keep the 30 degrees angle that you need to slowing down becoz your nose raice too much, for this reason the normal shuttles had big wings at back and nothing in front.

The problem with this, is that in KSP is really difficult raice your nose after re-entry if you dont have wings in the front, also is more difficult to land how a

sailplane.

So I add the turn engines and some wing in front to had a lot more control to land.

Also, the deadly re-entry mod is kinda fake for kerbin, becoz you leave orbit at 2000 m/s, not at 8000 m/s like you do in earth.

But well, is fun.

[bs1110101]

the point of it is to fly up to a station and transfer fuel from that tank with a fuel line mod, then dock normally, also that tank is stretched abit to test the engine cluster, normally it's only 2 long, and i think i could get away with 1 and a half if i wanted, but the extra fuel lets me de-orbit the tank

[AngelLestat]

Lately, in each topic than I comment, this die short time after. Is like a cursed :S

Fuel line mod? you mean KAS?

[Wait- Was That Important?]

I built this guy using the Mk. 3 cockpit expansion mod and KW.

It's retired now, however. The fact that the Mk. 3 parts can't carry 2.5m parts at the least and the difficulties in flying shuttles, not to mention flying planes (which I'm hopeless at) make it too dangerous for me to use.

[DocSnuggles]

I recommend this vid ->

The guy did an excellent job balancing the thing and angling the engines. This should be the way it can be done by adjusting the shuttle angle in order to fit the center of mass problem in combination with the right angle of the shuttle main engines.

[AngelLestat]

I cant see the moment when he is supposedly transfer fuel and oxidizer back to the shuttle.

All the manuvers and design are very accurate.

The problem is that you need mods and a lot more fuel to make a practical shuttle.

To anybody who post shuttles, need to said if are capable of reach orbit, max tons in cargo, if they can land safety and if they can re-entry using deadly reentry mod.

Or in what stage are you finding problems.

PD: no need for the design to be a true copy of the NASA Shuttle, You can use any design, but it has to be rehusable.

Edited May 16, 2013 by AngelLestat

[White Owl]

Encouraged by reports of the Tiberdyne torque-compensating plugin working with multiple engines, I rebuilt my current shuttle to try it out. Got rid of the powered hinges, attached six main engines in a symmetrical cluster, made sure all six engines had the correct module enabled in the cfg file...

No joy. It doesn't work at all. I saw no evidence of any of the engines gimballing correctly. I think I'll stick to what works.

[SkyHook]

Encouraged by reports of the Tiberdyne torque-compensating plugin working with multiple engines, I rebuilt my current shuttle to try it out. Got rid of the powered hinges, attached six main engines in a symmetrical cluster, made sure all six engines had the correct module enabled in the cfg file...

No joy. It doesn't work at all. I saw no evidence of any of the engines gimballing correctly. I think I'll stick to what works.

That's sad, I would have LOVED to see that, no dice, I guess. Building a lift system to get to 350K above kerbin the hard way I guess I am curious, though. Did you try it with less engines(like maybe the traditional 3)?

[White Owl]

To be fair, I only made the one attempt with a cluster of six engines. Maybe some other configuration will work; I don't know.

[MR4Y]

I tried and failed many times. Problem with stock boosters is that they don't have enough fuel. Maybe using Modular Fuel Tanks and editing the config of the tanks (you can't edit SRB's strangely enough or transform normal tanks into gimbaling SRBs. I tried)

[SkyHook]

I tried and failed many times. Problem with stock boosters is that they don't have enough fuel. Maybe using Modular Fuel Tanks and editing the config of the tanks (you can't edit SRB's strangely enough or transform normal tanks into gimbaling SRBs. I tried)

Well it is certainly one of the most difficult ways to get to space, friend! You might benefit from KW Rocketry's SRBs, they are larger and more versatile. I also recommend Touhou Torpedo's engines, they have a large gimbal range, and good power. Hope this helps.

[MR4Y]

Well it is certainly one of the most difficult ways to get to space, friend! You might benefit from KW Rocketry's SRBs, they are larger and more versatile. I also recommend Touhou Torpedo's engines, they have a large gimbal range, and good power. Hope this helps.

Maybe if we add a disposable counter weight... That might help....

[maackey]

I gave up on the traditional shuttle design because SSTO's are easier XD

These are from where I pushed the shuttle to its limits: 500km orbit carrying a 3.2 ton communication satellite.

I timed my de-orbit wrong and ended up on the opposite side of the planet.

I use FAR and Re-entry heat (plus remote-tech, b9 and a million others) and it handles surprisingly well (especially compared to my previous attempts at space shuttles, but I guess thats just practice and experience). Re-entry things can get hairy if I stray too far from prograde, and even then only little bits like the covered solar panels (not pictured, added after) and SAS system burn up -- and they aren't needed once you've entered the atmosphere.

[MR4Y]

I have many designs that can orbit, but they use too much fuel.

[ThePyrateCaptain]

Heres my Shuttle, The Model was rocket2guns CSS Version 2.0, after tinkering with its aerodynamics, Viola!

No deadly spin, engines gimbal to 10.5, and at about 23000 you dump the SRBS, the flip of death goes away.

Once in orbit, you dump the fueltank, switch to Orbital Manuvering Systems, and your fine.

although im not a pilot and havent landed it yet,

Only mod used is mechjeb 2, weight of vehicle I'm not sure of, yes it can get to orbit, nothing above 300k easily. Landing it? Never have.

Oh and I forgot, you have to execute a roll over, putting the ext tank on top, it's weight can cause issues, but as you get going, it gets lighter. And you can roll back over.

Edited July 1, 2013 by ThePyrateCaptain
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