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[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

Fractal_UK

By Fractal_UK
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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tedach

tedach

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Although I, -we-, would all love a recompile, the idea is to not break the trust and intent of the mod author who - through the license - protects his or her work or enforces intent of usage. I'm no expert on these things, and I certainly wouldn't tell anyone their business, but personally I try to respect the framework in which free software is distributed. We're all on the same team, and I love everyone in this community, so don't take anything personally. Just my thoughts. Cheers!

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AetherGoddess

AetherGoddess

Posted
Posted
Although I, -we-, would all love a recompile, the idea is to not break the trust and intent of the mod author who - through the license - protects his or her work or enforces intent of usage. I'm no expert on these things, and I certainly wouldn't tell anyone their business, but personally I try to respect the framework in which free software is distributed. We're all on the same team, and I love everyone in this community, so don't take anything personally. Just my thoughts. Cheers!

This is a much better argument against violating the license then the legal one. ya, no one is going to prison, but disrespecting the wishes of developers who put time and effort into their code is going to result in less people willing to put effort in, because they suspect that effort will, similarly, not be respected. the value of one plug-in pales in comparison to the effort of all the people that action could have a chilling effect on.

this pretty much solidifies it for me: don't do it.

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Northstar1989

Northstar1989

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I think you might be forgetting that you need 10 km/s to get to LEO, then another 4-5 km/s to get to the moon, then another 4 to land and get back, and another 2 to transfer back. With all that, it makes sense to use LH2, though not by a lot.

LH2/LOX wasn't *used* in the Apollo landings. It was Kero/LOX (Saturn V lower/upper stages) and Hypergolics (LEM, CEM, etc.) all the way.

The only place LH2/LOX has actually seen significant use is for launch vehicles to LEO- which is where it makes absolutely the LEAST sense... (you *lose* Delta-V for the same tank volume compared to Kero/LOX or Metha/LOX due to the lower fuel density in that Delta-V range...)

I think some people get the wrong idea because they see the gold foil used on the Apollo landers, and automatically assume that was used to hold Hydrogen. Actually, that was used to hold Aerozine/N2O4:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Lunar_Module

Regards,

Northstar

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Miro Beero

Miro Beero

Posted
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All of the parts are configured to appear in stock nodes without further config editing if you remove TreeLoader entirely. It's not as balanced as the full tree, but it's playable.

Lets pretend I like to play Kerbal with somewhat a plug and play idea. Put files in gamedata = voila.

How do I remove treeloader?

From what I see here, technically from .25 and on interstellar is over until this guy who wrote it who apparently has the rights to it puts out a patch. Right?

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undercoveryankee

undercoveryankee

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LH2/LOX wasn't *used* in the Apollo landings. It was Kero/LOX (Saturn V lower/upper stages) and Hypergolics (LEM, CEM, etc.) all the way.

LH2/LOX was used on the Saturn V second and third stages. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocketdyne_J-2 )

- - - Updated - - -

Lets pretend I like to play Kerbal with somewhat a plug and play idea. Put files in gamedata = voila.

How do I remove treeloader?

From what I see here, technically from .25 and on interstellar is over until this guy who wrote it who apparently has the rights to it puts out a patch. Right?

You remove treeloader by deleting GameData/Treeloader or not installing it when you install Interstellar. No rocket science required.

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Shalashalska

Shalashalska

Posted
Posted (edited)
LH2/LOX wasn't *used* in the Apollo landings. It was Kero/LOX (Saturn V lower/upper stages) and Hypergolics (LEM, CEM, etc.) all the way.

The only place LH2/LOX has actually seen significant use is for launch vehicles to LEO- which is where it makes absolutely the LEAST sense... (you *lose* Delta-V for the same tank volume compared to Kero/LOX or Metha/LOX due to the lower fuel density in that Delta-V range...)

I think some people get the wrong idea because they see the gold foil used on the Apollo landers, and automatically assume that was used to hold Hydrogen. Actually, that was used to hold Aerozine/N2O4:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Lunar_Module

Regards,

Northstar

The S-II-B and S-IV-B were LH2/LOX, which provided the vast majority of the DV for the Saturn V. The hypergolics were only used for the lunar circularization, landing, and return.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V

I think you may be thinking of the Soviet N1, which was entirely RP-1/LOX, with plans for a hypergolic lunar vehicle (I think it was hydrazine)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N1_(rocket)

Edited by Shalashalska
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AetherGoddess

AetherGoddess

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Lets pretend I like to play Kerbal with somewhat a plug and play idea. Put files in gamedata = voila.

How do I remove treeloader?

From what I see here, technically from .25 and on interstellar is over until this guy who wrote it who apparently has the rights to it puts out a patch. Right?

not necessarily.

Treeloader is used to generate the new research nodes that go beyond the stock tree. some parts could be moved into stock trees, but some parts of the plugins look for these specific nodes to be researched to (among other things) enable retrofits and advanced behaviors.

The lack of treeloader definitely closes off science and career modes, but sandbox works normally, and all that would really be required would be another plug-in that controls research nodes. treeloader has been so good at what it did for so long (ever since .22 when science was first added) that there are no alternatives yet.

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Shalashalska

Shalashalska

Posted
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You get access to all the parts with the stock tree, but you can't get their upgrades without editing the part files.

Edit: The VAB Thermal Helper seems to be broken. The radiator tooltips with upgraded radiators say they are over 10 times higher than what the thermal helper says they are.

Edited by Shalashalska
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code99

code99

Posted
Posted (edited)
I believe that V0.12.2 is the last build on KSP .24.2

@Tebryn, thanks but apparently its too big for my phone to handle. Too bad tho, really wanted to play with it.

I do have another favor to ask of you or anyone else for that matter, could someone please split that archive into 2 (preferably 3) smaller bits and upload it somewhere and post the links here so i can dl it?

I didnt think this phone had a limit on how large files are ...

I sadly dont have an internet connection where i live ...

Edited by code99
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INSULINt

INSULINt

Posted
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not necessarily.

Treeloader is used to generate the new research nodes that go beyond the stock tree. some parts could be moved into stock trees, but some parts of the plugins look for these specific nodes to be researched to (among other things) enable retrofits and advanced behaviors.

I've noticed that all of the upgrade points seem to be defined in the part configs. Would it be possible to reposition the upgrades with an mm patch?

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Tebryn

Tebryn

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@Tebryn, thanks but apparently its too big for my phone to handle. Too bad tho, really wanted to play with it.

I do have another favor to ask of you or anyone else for that matter, could someone please split that archive into 2 (preferably 3) smaller bits and upload it somewhere and post the links here so i can dl it?

I didnt think this phone had a limit on how large files are ...

I sadly dont have an internet connection where i live ...

You're lucky I am incredibly bored at the moment... check your PM's

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undercoveryankee

undercoveryankee

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I've noticed that all of the upgrade points seem to be defined in the part configs. Would it be possible to reposition the upgrades with an mm patch?

Yes. Now that CRP integration is caught up to the latest USI packages, a no-TreeLoader configuration for the upgrades will probably be my next project.

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Atrius129

Atrius129

Posted
Posted (edited)
I am having an issue that I don't think is an Interstellar problem, but maybe somebody could point me in the right direction.

I got all updated to .25 and most of my mods are working. So far, ATM and Procedural Parts are two of the mods left that have not yet updated to be compatible.

I finally got to a point where the game is running somewhat smoothly again, except from the Tracking Station I can't access any of my pre .25 vessels. I can't select them, and the buttons are greyed out:

http://imgur.com/4oLZsdf (for some reason neither the imgur or spoiler tags are not working for me right now)

I have removed ATM until a fix is ready, and my system seems OK with that. Is it because I have Procedural Parts on pretty much all of my vessels? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I wanted to see if anybody had experienced this issue before I have to revert back to .24.2

Output Log

Bumptastic.

Edited by Atrius129
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Atrius129

Atrius129

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As of now, both ATM and procedural parts are updated to .25. PP updated late last night (at least in EST) ATM updated just a few hours ago.

I did realize that after posting. Still though, after updating PP, Proc Fairings, and ATM the problem still persists. Is nobody else having this issue after updating to 0.25?

UPDATE: It seems that only certain vessels are causing this. I was clicking on the craft that I was running my Duna mission on and it seems to be one of the "corrupted" vessels. A bunch of my other satcoms and such seem to be working okay. When in the tracking station, and I click one of the "corrupted" vessels, I lose the ability to click any any other vessels, hence thinking all of them were borked.

Edited by Atrius129
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Cairan

Cairan

Posted
Posted

I understand that the Vista is further down the science tree, but there's not much point in using anything else once you get it.

Yes there is, the D/T Vista will kill kerbals on EVA or on nearby ships, so I always put a nice pair of maneuvering engines such as plasmas or attilas so that I can efficiently match velocities during rendez-vous without having the engine cut on me at a distance of 2.5 km from the target...

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ABZB

ABZB

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Posted
Both MechJeb and SCANSat add extra nodes without having Treeloader... can whatever method they use be adapted to KPSI?

they don't add new nodes, rather they, like KSPI, have features that trigger on purchase of specific nodes - but they use existing stock nodes only.

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ArcFurnace

ArcFurnace

Posted
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Both MechJeb and SCANSat add extra nodes without having Treeloader... can whatever method they use be adapted to KPSI?

Those aren't true "extra" nodes; Squad added empty nodes to the end of the tech tree, costing 1000 science each. No stock parts use them, they only show up when there are mod parts that use them. These nodes are Experimental Rocketry, Nanolathing, Experimental Aerodynamics, Aerospace Tech, Automation, Robotics, Experimental Electrics, Experimental Science, and Experimental Motors. MechJeb and SCANsat (and a variety of other mods) simply add parts that use those nodes.

Alternative Tree Configurator can move nodes around, change dependencies, and rename nodes, but for whatever reason it seems that adding actual new nodes is impossible (at least one person in the thread was trying to code it, and failing repeatedly). This means it's limited to the total number of nodes in stock (55). We could rearrange the stock tree, particularly those top-level "experimental" nodes, but that would break any other mod that uses them (IIRC KW Rocketry in particular has quite a few parts on the Experimental Rocketry node). Better Than Starting Manned uses this method, but it's unapologetic about being incompatible with other mods.

Edited by ArcFurnace
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undercoveryankee

undercoveryankee

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Posted (edited)

I took a few minutes to write up a ModuleManager config to move all of the upgrades from TreeLoader nodes down to stock nodes. I move some of the parts' initial unlocks from the 1000-science reserved-for-mods tier down into stock nodes so it makes sense to have upgrades in the 1000-science tier.

Copy and paste from here or download a file that already has the right extension from https://www.dropbox.com/s/9cvtczz58x06qx3/KSPI-0.13-no-treeloader.cfg?dl=0 .


@PART[AntimatterReactor*] {
    @TechRequired = advScienceTech
    @MODULE[FNAntimatterReactor] {
        @upgradeTechReq = experimentalScience
    }
}

// Since I moved the AM reactors up to make room for their upgrade, I need to
// move the tanks as well.
@PART[AntimatterTank*] {
    @TechRequired = advScienceTech
}

@PART[FNFissionFusionCatReactor] {
    @TechRequired = specializedElectrics
    @MODULE[InterstellarCatalysedFissionFusion] {
        @upgradeTechReq = experimentalElectrics
    }
}

@PART[FusionReactor250,FusionReactor375] {
    @TechRequired = metaMaterials
    @MODULE[InterstellarTokamakFusionReactor] {
        @upgradeTechReq = nanolathing
    }
}

+PART[FusionReactor250] {
    @name = placeholder_fusion_upgrade
    @TechRequired = nanolathing
    @category = -1
    @title = Tokamak Upgrade
}

@PART[NuclearReactor*,FNPFissionReactor*] {
    @MODULE[InterstellarFissionMSRGC,InterstellarFissionPBDP] {
        @upgradeTechReq = metaMaterials
    }
}

@PART[FusionReactor0625,FusionReactor125] {
    @techRequired = specializedElectrics
    @MODULE[InterstellarInertialConfinementReactor] {
        @upgradeTechReq = experimentalElectrics
    }
}

@PART[*MPD] {
    @MODULE[ElectricEngineControllerFX] {
        @upgradeTechReq = experimentalScience
    }
}

@PART[ThermalTurbojet*] {
    @MODULE[FNNozzleController] {
        @upgradeTechReq = hypersonicFlight
    }
}

Edited by undercoveryankee
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ArcFurnace

ArcFurnace

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Posted
So add this MM config and I can delete Treeloader?

Short answer: Yes.

Slightly longer answer: you could always delete TreeLoader, but the tech tree wouldn't be the same, and some upgrades would be inaccessible since they require you to have certain tech nodes unlocked, and said nodes no longer exist without TreeLoader. The MM config specified changes the nodes required for the upgrade unlocks (and also the nodes required to unlock certain parts) to make things work better without the custom tech tree previously used for Interstellar.

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Woodstar

Woodstar

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Posted
Short answer: Yes.

Slightly longer answer: you could always delete TreeLoader, but the tech tree wouldn't be the same, and some upgrades would be inaccessible since they require you to have certain tech nodes unlocked, and said nodes no longer exist without TreeLoader. The MM config specified changes the nodes required for the upgrade unlocks (and also the nodes required to unlock certain parts) to make things work better without the custom tech tree previously used for Interstellar.

OUCH I tried to think about it! So... just add the MM patch to the warp plugin folder and be done or do I add it to Treeloader folder?

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