GoSlash27

Setting aside the standard stuff... I have designed and executed an Apollo mission using a notepad and sliderule. I have created an entire STS interplanetary infrastructure like Von Braun envisioned. I have created an SSTO reusable booster with a mass ratio over 100%. I have created a spaceplane that can shuttle 4 kerbals between KSC and my space station 3 times without refueling. I have put an ion glider into orbit without infiniglide I have created a kraken drive infiniglider that landed and returned from Eve, Duna, and Laythe in a single trip. And this morning I put a satellite in orbit for a total vehicle cost of $1,200. Best, -Slashy

Oh, I care... But I also recognize that this is not my circus and these are not my monkeys. There is therefore no justification I can see for histrionics on my part or anybody who's not *personally* affected by the outcome. The devs have a lot riding on this. You and I do not. I trust them to make decisions in their own best interest. I don't show how much I care by demanding that other people do their job my way. YMMV. Best, -Slashy

This. And also, you can figure out your vehicle's delta-v and even learn how to design your vehicle to have the required delta-v. You don't necessarily need add-ons or trial-and-error to do it. That's also covered in the tutorials. Best, -Slashy

Robotengineer, So it comes down to I might not get all the content and development that I want if it flops? Fair enough. I wasn't expecting that anyway. Is there any other reason I should be concerned? Best, -Slashy

I'll open this question up to anyone else here who's up in arms about this: Why should I (or anyone else here) be concerned about whether KSP goes open now or not?

Do you own stock in Squad? Are you employed in program management or accounting? You do realize that there are people who are paid to worry about this stuff and that they have decided that they're ready to go to market, right? Scratchin' mah head, -Slashy

klgraham, What does any of this matter to you AFA your game playing experience? That is; how does it affect you *personally* whether the next release is .92 or 1.0? I'm having a hard time grasping what all the fuss is about. Best, -Slashy

That's the part that's got me stumped. "Beta" vs "release" doesn't mean anything to us. We play the game regardless of what name or number they slap on it. Nothing changes for us, so what's the uproar? Best, -Slashy

The solar panels, batteries and supporting octagonal struts are effectively free from a mass standpoint since they have no physics significance. They will up your part count and increase your chances of a Kraken attack, but of course this is why we don't use ions for large jobs. Best, -Slashy

I use a standard spaceplane to ferry fuel to orbit. Cost is $43 per tonne of fuel to LKO, since the tanker itself is 100% recovered at KSP. I have 2 LF tankers in my fleet, 1 that does 6t per mission and 1 that does 12. Best, -Slashy

You may as well stop right there. Anybody who believes that is not going to be convinced otherwise, regardless of evidence or reason. They will also make the discussion very unpleasant, since anything you say will be taken as an attack on their faith. You're really better off not debating with this person. Best, -Slashy

Ah! So basically, you haven't started attempting it yet. It's going to take a minimum of 5,800 m/sec to get you to Eve on a 1 way trip from the pad (1,300 from low orbit). This is strictly 1 way with aerobraking at the other end. Phase angle should be -54*. That is, Eve is trailing Kerbin by 54* in their orbits around Kerbol. AFA how to design a ship to get the required DV budget and all the technical stuff you need to know (there's a lot), it's all up in the tutorial section. Free advice: A round trip to Eve and back is about the most difficult undertaking in KSP. I'd recommend saving that for last, after you've got enough other trips under your belt. You really need to learn to crawl before attempting to win a gold medal in the olympics! Best, -Slashy

AG, I don't have B9 aerospace, but that shouldn't matter since the physics are the same. A little more info? Could you describe the mission package, flight plan, and exactly what's wrong? Best, -Slashy

Meh. It's all the same to me whether it's in beta or full release. I'm gonna play it regardless. From Squad's perspective, I doubt it matters to them whether or not I want it in full release either. It's all about the market to them. They're the ones who have to judge whether it's ready or not. I do wonder whether they can pull off a complete rebalance and major change to the physics and still get it right on the first try, but that's their headache. Best, -Slashy

I just ran an exercise to see what such a vehicle might look like. The core was a pair of S3-1440s and a KR-2L. Stage 1 was 6 KD-25Ks (disposable). I put a 41.5 tonne payload into orbit, did the whole intercept/rendezvous/ docking thing and recovered the launcher. Total fuel, oxidizer, and monopropellant for the mission worked out to $580 per tonne. I'll upload the craft file if you want it. I personally have no use for it since I can lift the same mass in 2 launches using turbojets for $70 per tonne. *edit* Aye, but I didn't provide an estimated operating cost. I provided a theoretically perfect floor. Operating cost is bound to be higher than that. It just gives you a basis to judge your cost efficiency. $800 per tonne is pretty decent considering the numbers the rest of us are seeing (approx. $600-700/tonne) Best, -Slashy

Brainlord, I haven't forgotten it, I've ignored it. All of that gear is recoverable, so it doesn't figure into the operating cost. Best, -Slashy

Brainlord, It's all good. Our numbers don't line up simply because I use engines you don't and I enjoy building my program "one big gray tank at a time". Difference in playing style that allows me to design my launchers in a much more efficient regime. Looking at it mathematically, It'd take a pair of KR2Ls to SSTO a 50t payload cheaply and with low part count. This would require roughly 250t of fuel and oxidizer (roughly $23,000), so that's $460 per tonne. This would serve as a theoretical floor, and would serve as a better yardstick to judge your cost efficiency than what I'm doing with jets and smaller payloads. Best, -Slashy *edit* I wonder if in your case it might not make more sense to use SRBs on the first stage and not bother to recover them. SRBs are cheap! *edit 2* Monkeying around in the VAB suggests that disposable SRBs could get the cost down to $414 per tonne.

Brainlord, This isn't the question you originally asked. You asked whether $1000 per tonne to LKO is "really good" and how much I pay. The answers are "not really" and "$35 per tonne". For SSTO pure rockets and payloads above 50 tonnes, I have no idea what a "really good" figure would be because 1) I don't do pure rocket SSTOs and 2) I don't have a need to lift such huge payloads in one shot. Clearly the reason your SSTOs are so expensive to run is because you use pure rockets and you've chosen payload mass over launcher efficiency. Nuthin' wrong with playing your game your way, but it's kinda pointless to ask about cost efficiency when you've already decided that cost efficiency isn't your priority. Best, -Slashy

What's worse, it has already been confirmed. V stands for Valentina. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/108305-Squadcast-Summary-%2824-01-2015%29-The-Valentina-Edition Best, -Slashy

This is where I'm coming from also. The devs have added a lot of stuff over the past year. Some worked, some didn't. But through it all, I've never seen opposition to it until now. If it's just a matter of pushing back against politically correct nonsense, I can totally relate to that. I'm not a fan of people who push their political agendas in my entertainment either. But in this case, girlbals have been a glaring omission and a lot of people have been asking for them for a long time now. And it just plain makes sense to have them from a sales perspective. So why not?

Aye, but... People have been asking for female kerbals for a long time now, during which Squad has focused on debugging, adding features, and fleshing out playability. Female Kerbals have been at the top of the request list for as long as I've been around here. I don't personally give a rip one way or the other, but I'm surprised that there's a backlash against it at this late stage. The devs intended to do this months ago. Do we really have to wait until the game is "perfect" before introducing something that so many people have been asking for? Curious, -Slashy

I can understand why people would be for this, but don't understand why anybody would be against it. Best, -Slashy

I think that partially answers the question; it depends on how accurately you land. But it doesn't explain why you're expending $1000 a tonne when you should be under $50. I'm not talking about 1 tonne either. The two examples I cited have payload ratings of 23 tonnes (vtol lifter) and 6 tonnes (spaceplane) respectively. That is; they launch from KSC, intercept, rendezvous, and dock with a target in LKO, place their rated payload on station, and return to KSC intact for no cost other than the fuel and monopropellant expended. http://s52.photobucket.com/user/GoSlash27/slideshow/KSP/Lifter-Ception/Flight I'm guessing you're not using turbojets for the job? Or are you not subtracting the cost of the payload itself in the calculation? Best, -Slashy

Remember that solar panels and batteries are massless if you do it right. We've tried to do that, but so far no success (all stock). I've had good success using ions to do all sorts of crazy stuff, but that doesn't necessarily make ions the "best" option for a job. Ions are ideal for smallish missions that require insane amounts of DV. Anywhere you can use another engine, you probably should. Best, -Slashy

All, I totally misread the question. My heaviest Eve ascent stage was 52 tonnes on the surface. What actually wound up in orbit would've been well under 1 tonne. The largest mass I put into Eve Orbit from the surface would be about 2.5 tonnes using a kraken drive infiniglider. Sorry for the confusion! -Slashy