DonLorenzo

For this turn, consider the pods filled with hazardous waste upon return and thus completely unsalvageable. I will however take your pod-wishes with me, sleep on them a night and see what I\'ll come back with. edit: I gave the unmanned pod a salvage value because that one does not always have to return, to further complicate the decision of when to go manned or unmanned.

That is on purpose, I figured since it will always return there wasn\'t a point in making it salvageable over reducing the cost outright. The Salvage tech II will make it salvageable at 15% however. If I could do in game item descriptions it\'d read something like \'Most of the cost for the command pod goes to the comfy leather chairs and the on board gourmet food snacks, unfortunately most kerbonauts have received mere basic potty training causing command pods to be less than salvage-worthy\'. On another note, I\'ve slightly cocked up on some last minute balance changes so the first turns will be a little bit harder/tighter than I initially planned for, but that\'ll be slightly remedied next turn by a lucrative design contest contract that should give everyone some extra spending money

I just noticed with Saaur\'s submission that there has been a new version of the ZOXy mod released, I\'ve worked with the old one in designing the campaign. Fortunately the stats that matter (weigth, capacity etc.) are all the same for the new, sleeker and prettier parts so they\'re fine to use. The new external tanks have different fuel values, but fuel/weigth ratio is again the same, so they are also allowed (after zoxy tech, that is!).

Thanks for your interest and submissions, let\'s see how many people we can get to play There will be new missions and probably a contract to do the next turn, so don\'t worry if cash seems a bit tight.

No new excel pack quite yet, in stead I tried making a campaign. find it here: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=11947.0

It\'s up! http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=11947.0

After playing togfoxes excellent campaign I couldn\'t resist the urge to run one myself, and here I am doing so. I completely re-vamped the part costs and invented a technology tree to help you guys go where no one (or more accurately, everyone, lots of times) has gone before. The campaign will progress in turns, during which all participants design a craft to undertake a mission of their choosing, research technology and possibly partake in contracts. Turns are submitted by e-mail to me at \'ksp@donlorenzo.eu\'. I will give turn updates either in this thread, either by updating the OP or just by posting. Below, spoilered per item for visibility are the rules, the tech tree and the available missions and rewards for turn one. You will start the campaign with $9000 What you can do in a turn 1. Research one technology. The researched technology is immediately useable in the same turn 2. Undertake one mission 3. Participate in one ´contract´ (contracts will be irregular events, turn 1 doesn\'t have one) 4. (new since turn 5) Undertake 1 \'personal mission\' or receive $1500 in fundraising Mission rules 1. The craft you design must be within your budget 2. The use of mechjeb is allowed and encouraged, it\'s also free. 3. Provide \'pilot instructions\' with your craft, as detailed as you see fit. You are designing the craft as an external contractor (for me). I will fly it once and the results from that flight count. 4. A Zoxygen main system is mandatory on all manned flights, even if the atmosphere is not left. 4b. The Zoxygen main system may not be jettissoned, except during ballistic descents. In other words: no rocket burns are allowed without the zoxy system on board. 5. All the kerbals must always survive and return home. Each dead kerbal will cost you 25% of your profit that mission. Can be higher in case of gross negligence (ie. crafts designed to kill kerbals) 6. Kerbals are G force sensitive, <10G is safe. Between 10 and 15G there is a chance for kerbal death, between 15 and 25G there is an increasingly higher chance and survival above 25G will be very rare. I will roll dice for this 7. A completed mission will pay out the reward as stated in the mission overview (lower in this post), additionally the \'first bonus\' will be paid out to the first person to complete that mission. Should multiple people complete the same mission in the same turn, they\'ll both get the bonus. \'Second\' and \'Third\' bonuses may be introduced as well, depening on the amount of players and game progress Salvage rules 1. Once Salvage tech I has been researched it will become possible to salvage parts. Parts are salvageable if they are landed safely, or jettisonned with an attached parachute. 2. Parachutes can safely descend 4 units of mass for salvaging purposes. 3. Decouplers can never be salvaged. Technology rules 1. One technology can be purchased per turn. 2. Technologies can be purchased in any desired order, except incrementally numbered technologies. (ie. liquid tech I must always preceed liquid tech II, but has no bearing on booster tech) 3. Technologies are reduced in price by 10% after they are purchased at least twice, by another 10% after they are purchased four times. These numbers are liable to change based on the number of participants Technology tree Salvage Tech I - $1000 $900 $800 - Allows salvaging Salvage Tech IIa - $1500 $1350 $1200 - +20% to command pod salvage (available starting turn 003) Salvage Tech II - $8000 $7200 - +15% to salvage amount (all parts) Space Cockpits - $1500 - Allows the use of airplane cockpits on spacecraft (available starting turn 005) Aerospike Tech - $1000 - Allows the use of the Aerospike rocket (same price as gimballed LFE) Parachute Tech - $2500 $2250 - -66% to parachute cost (new cost: 250) Decoupler Tech - $3000 $2700 $2400 - -66% to radial and stack decoupler cost (new cost: 250) Decoupler Tech II - $2500 - Allows the lighter radial decouplers (structural pylons) to be used. Same price as the regular ones. Booster Tech - $4000 $3600 $3200 - -50% to Solid Fuel Booster price. SRB base salvage percentage to 50% ZOxy Tech I - $5000 $4500 - Unlocks ZOxy tanks ZOxy Tech II - $10000 - Unlocks ZOxy panels Life Insurance - $5000 - -50% to deceased kerbal family reimbursement cost. (gross negligence still applicable) Fuel Tech - $7000 - -50% to liquid fuel tank cost Liquid Tech I - $7500 $6750 $6000 - Small/Large/Gimbal LFE prices to $5000/$12000/$15000 Liquid Tech II - $12500 $11250 $10000 - Small/Large/Gimbal LFE prices to $2500/$8000/$10000 & Liquid engine base salvage to 20% Liquid Tech III - $15000 - Small/Large/Gimbal LFE prices to $1500/$7000/$8000 Liquid Tech IV - $15000 - Small/Large/Gimbal LFE prices to $1500/$6000/$6000 & Liquid engine base salvage to 40% Remote Tech I - $10000 $9000 - Unlocks Unmanned Pod Remote Tech II - $15000 - Unlocks Powersats Parts There used to be a table here, but I\'ve removed it so the post fits more missions and contracts (20000 char limit..) Just look at the .xls Turn 012: Available missions and rewards Mission: Reach 10km altitude. Reward: $6500. 1st Bonus: $500 2nd Bonus: $250 Mission: Reach 25km altitude. Reward: $10000. 1st Bonus: $1000 2nd Bonus: $500 Mission: Reach 50km altitude. Reward: $10500. 1st Bonus: $1000 2nd Bonus: $500 Mission: Reach 80km altitude. Reward: $13000. 1st Bonus: $2000 2nd Bonus: $1000 Mission: Reach 200km altitude. Reward: $16000. 1st Bonus: $2500 2nd Bonus: $1250 Mission: Reach 2000km altitude. Reward: $25000 1st Bonus: $10000 2nd Bonus: $5000 Mission: Establish stable orbit. Reward: $18000. 1st Bonus: $4000 2nd Bonus: $2000 Mission: Establish & complete one full kerbin orbit* at >80km. Reward: $25000. 1st Bonus: $5000 2nd Bonus: $2500 Mission: Establish 100x100km equatorial orbit, complete two such orbits then land at either pole (on ice-cap) Reward: $33000 1st Bonus:$10000 Mission: Deposit a \'Kubble\'** Telescope in a circular 100x100km orbit. Reward: $33000 1st Bonus: $7500 2nd Bonus: $3750 Mission: Deposit a \'Probe\'*** in Kerbol orbit. Reward: $38000 1st Bonus: $10000 2nd Bonus: $5000 Mission: Impact a \'Kubble\'** on the surface of the Mun at at least 1500m/s. Reward: $35000 1st Bonus:$10000 *Re-entry maneuvers allowed to begin while over KSC **Get the Kubble part from http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=3362.0 *** Use the attached .craft file. Uses NovaSiliskos Probodobodyne pack (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=6397.0). The probe and the attached decoupler are free, the capsule and ZOX module are not. Turn 012 Contract: Bomb the pole! Db101 submitted this idea for a contract, therefor as per the the \'meta contract\' of last turn, he will get to participate in it for free. Next bit is by Db101 As the land and sea near the launchpad is cluttered with debris, the kerbals decide that the most efficient way to clean up is not with trash bags and volunteers (that\'s boring!) but with the awesome power of water. If they could just get a wave to swipe the stuff away, they could get back to launching without dodging spent stages everywhere. The 'top scientists' (oh no) decide that the best way to influence the nearby ocean waves is to send a radiothermal bomb to the south (or north) pole and detonate it on impact with the ice field. While this proposition seems simple enough, there is one big problem. The bomb is so radioactive that even the most radiation hardened control systems will quickly short out in its vicinity. This translates in only 90 seconds of useful flight input after launch. Rocket motors will keep working, however 90 seconds after launch all control (even mechjeb!) becomes impossible. Hence the challenge is this: Build a rocket that will drop this bomb on either ice-cap, but after MET 1:30 no control inputs are possible. (mechjeb will be switched OFF and the controls left untouched) Needless to say, the capsule will be unmanned. I see Db101 made the bomb on the manned capsule, that\'s alright. Those kerbals in there screaming aren\'t real. Honest. Then why do we have monitors and video feeds of their horrified faces? Shut up. Ahem.. the rules! -All parts allowed (no mods other than those in OP though) -ALL control gets cut off after 90 seconds. If you can rig it so the mechjeb is seperable, great. If not, no problem. -Entry fee: $1500 (free for Db101) -Success payout: $6000 -No extra bonus for a \'winner\'. This one is hard enough as it is I\'d think. Owing to the unpredictable nature of uncontrolled flight the risk of losing your money is certainly present. To compensate a bit every design gets three flights instead of the usual one. -Find the bomb.craft in the bottom of this post State of the Joint Space Station Project Launched parts: none yet Parts still required: 25 x Large liquid fuel tanks 15 x Large Zoxy Tank 4 x zox Panel 5 x Tri Coupler 2 x Liquid Fuel Engine 20 x RCS block 10 x RCS fuel tank 2 x small Liquid Fuel Engine 4 x Command Pod Joint funds available: $52624 Bellaby\'s thread for joint construction coordination and civil chat can be found here: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=15108.0 If you want to play, post here or just e-mail me with your first turn submission at ksp@donlorenzo.eu. Turn 012 is currently in progress, its deadline is 18-07-2012 23:59 Any questions, about anything I\'ll be happy to answer. Enjoy running your space program! Some mods you\'ll need Zoxygen mod: http://184.154.141.114/~kerbalsp/forum/index.php?topic=9763.0;topicseenPowersat Mod: http://184.154.141.114/~kerbalsp/forum/index.php?topic=9879.0 Unmanned pod: http://184.154.141.114/~kerbalsp/forum/index.php?topic=9006.0;topicseen NovaSiliskos Probodobodyne kit: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=6397.0 The \'Kubble\' space telescope part: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=3362.0

I got chartered to be a furniture mover today, so the campaign will kick off tomorrow instead

Make people bring more weight on the missions. Like a pre-designed lander or something.

We\'ll make it work, don\'t worry. I want to encourage designing with a bit of margin, I\'m not aiming to be a nasty sadistic gamemaster.

If I\'m totally at a loss as to how to, I\'ll probably ask you how to fly the damn thing. If I mess up because I fall asleep or hit the wrong button or something dumb like that I\'ll re-do it. If I fly it competently but it just doesn\'t succeed the mission, kills a kerbal or lands in an unfortunate spot, the consequences are valid. I tried to design them so as not to be game breaking, where dying kerbals would be \'oh shit\', but not the end of the world. As I said in the OP, designs that need absolute precision-flying might not succeed, although they might, but you\'d better write a nice clear manual. I\'m a good pilot, especially with mechjeb that allows very accurate instructions.

Thanks, I agree with the spirit of your suggestions and will work the numbers and open the campaign sometime tomorrow. As to turn speed, I plan to set a deadline for the first turn and from then on work with generous deadlines, but with the possibility that as soon as all current players have submitted a turn (and I have the time to process them) the turn can move forward sooner than planned. Stay tuned

Also I did that mission previous turn

The salvage numbers approach your suggestions when the appropriate techs are researched, boosters can get up to 65% salvage and LFE\'s up to 55% while both have their base costs reduced significantly. I\'ll have another look at it, but I want salvaging to be an addition and it be feasible to design without it. I\'m afraid too high salvage numbers makes it overpowered and will make SSTO + landing ships almost free, which isn\'t something I want.

I did some preliminary playtesting (on ksp 0.13 with an old netbook) and am fairly confident of my new numbers for at least the beginning portion of the campaign. Of some concern to me though, is anyone actually interested in playing?

That\'s precisely what I did. I\'ve been using powered landings (sometimes... barely survivable powered crashes) a lot to skimp on parachute costs.

How much $ for the movie studio?

Turn 7 submitted. The moon baby, the moon!

Cool. I now know I\'ll be back home on tuesday. That\'s when I\'ll go over everything again and ecide a final number to start play with. Consider that your deadline for inclusion

Thanks for your ideas. I don\'t want to have different kinds of \'turns\' progressing at different rates, that would create unnecessary complexity and issues with getting extra money halfway through a turn etc. Wouldn\'t be nice I don\'t think. I think I\'ll go with my original plan, allow people to fly a mission and do a contract in a single turn, but have the contracts be either cheap to do or independent of current balance altogether and just a design challenge (basically what you said). I\'d rather not lose the bidding aspect, I like that, but I think it needs a fair amount of players to ensure a robust and fair system that will serve to give small bonuses instead of huge paydays without the need for a lot of game-mastering. If we get a small number of players I\'ll probably re-shape it into something that will give everyone or at least most players a small bonus. Quite possibly the contracts and their rules will vary from turn to turn, could add some diversity. I think I\'ll update the available missions and their pay-outs every turn, trying to manually retain balance and keep incentives in place for every player. Another rule I was considering to level the playing field between players that are ahead and behind is a \'tax\'. This would effectively tax the richest player (measured by funds in the bank) by 10% of those funds and maybe even gift those to the lagging player, but ONLY if the taxed player would still be the leader after that tax. I think in this form it\'s quite a bad idea, it simply doesn\'t sounds very fun. However I do want to consider some kind of mechanism to disproportionately tax the richer, better players so it doesn\'t become a slipperly slope type walkover after three turns. I just haven\'t figured it out yet Perhaps reducing the price of tech every time it\'s been researched by someone? I think that might be interesting

Cool, I\'m abroad now and looking to start it after the weekend. There\'s a couple of things I\'m not decided on. For instance how to handle contracts and regular missions side by side. Cash will be an issue and I don\'t want it to be \'just for the rich\'. An option would be to not require the player to pay for the parts used in a contract (he would be supplying the \'blueprints only\'), however that just makes the person with the most appropriate tech for any given contract almost auto-win. A seperate \'contracts only\' turn wouldn\'t be much fun either because only one or maybe two people would stand to make money, for the rest the game would stand still. Currently I\'m considering having the contractor supply certain parts (like the command pod, zox system and maybe an engine or two) themselves, reducing the financial burden on the player allowing them to be run side by side with missions more succesfully. I think that\'s the best way to go.

Hello people, As I said a couple of days ago I’ve been working on a campaign structure for KSP. I’m participating in togfox’s campaign, it’s great fun and has made me think about many aspects of running such a thing. I’ve decided to now have a stab at it. Procedurally this one will be very similar to his (ie. You mail me designs, I fly them and report progress) however I’ve shaken up the part cost balance and technology tree and have added contracts as a mission type, I think this will make for a different experience, it wouldn’t be much fun to run the same thing twice after all. In balancing and designing a tech tree it hasn’t been my focus to make a super duper hardcore difficulty campaign, instead I want to encourage diversity and creativity, while still rewarding efficiency and smarts. The main problem with that is money, how do you give everyone enough to be able to do different things without trivializing it so much that just anything goes? My take to solving that is to have almost all parts available from the get-go, and have technologies reduce them in price and increase the amount that parts are salvageable for. The next thing is mission rewards. There will always be set rewards for missions, so you know what threshold you are designing against. Just increasing the rewards for tougher missions while decreasing the cost of parts (through tech) will inevitably lead to money becoming worthless, which isn’t something I want. Tougher, more advanced missions will have to be rewarded at a similar if not lower level than previous missions. To balance this some, most or all (easier) missions will not be allowed to be re-flown, or possibly for a much reduced pay-out. I’m not yet decided as to applying this rule per player or to whole campaign. That too might vary per mission. The function of this thread is to expose the core structure of the campaign I’m sketching out. Any and all comments are welcome, just keep in mind that all numbers are basically snatched out of thin air at this point and comments on overall structure will be more useful. Ideas for missions/contracts or cool mods and/or plugins to include are also welcome, although perhaps better suited as PMs. Inside the spoilertag are more details, presented in the form of a hypothetical FAQ. Attached is an excel file with my preliminary part costings, tech levels and mission/contract ideas. These are complete nor final, just my ideas at this point. Let me know what you think and whether or not you’d like to play! Cheers How do we do this? You will e-mail me with your intentions and .craft file(s) for the turn in question. I will then process everyone’s flights and post here when it’s all ready. How often do we do this? We will probably need a couple of days per turn, just to give everyone a chance to design a few ships and me the time to process it all. I will post deadlines, but should all the players submit before the deadline and I have spare time as well things might progress faster. We’ll see what works out, actually please post your preferred turn speed and I’ll try to accommodate everyone. How many launches per turn? You will be able to shoot for one milestone and bid on one contract per turn. Milestones and contracts are separate events (explained later). You can use as many launches as you like/can afford for milestone and contract. You will need to be able to afford all launches prior to any reward money pay-outs. What are milestones? Milestones are the most straightforward ‘missions’ to undertake. You build a rocket capable of reaching a milestone and if it works you get paid out. There’s a bonus for reaching a milestone first, in case of simultaneous achievement that bonus may either be awarded to all claimants or split between them, I’m not decided on that yet. Milestones will most likely not be repeatable, at least not all of them. Maybe there will be a separate category of ‘repeatable missions’ should they become needed. What are contracts? Contracts are like milestones in that they require a specific set of objectives to be met, however these objectives will be more specific than the milestones and more importantly, only one person can perform any one contract. The way they work is as follows; a contract is posted for a given turn and every player is free to then bid on that contract. The lowest bid gets to do the contract and gets paid the amount of their bid. I hope this will make for an interesting design and bidding competition. Contracts will need at least two bids on them to be awarded to anyone. There may not be contracts available every turn. I will have no way to check but price fixing and colluding in bidding will be illegal. Conspicuous bids and exorbitant profit margins will be investigated! The ZOX system A Zoxygen system (link) is required on all flights. It houses not only equipment for life-support but also vital instruments for manual engine control. It is allowed to jettison the main module, but only while in atmosphere and after the jettison no more powered flight is allowed. Use of the ‘O’ button, a sort of ‘nitrous boost’ that increases thrust at the expense of extra fuel and at the risk of exploding is allowed, but due to unpredictable outcomes it’s not recommended. How will you determine success or failure? Bear in mind that you are roleplaying a corporation that builds spacecraft as an external contractor. You are not going to be flying it yourself. I will fly all submitted craft once, and the results from that flight count. That means it’s smart to design with a slight surplus in fuel budget and make the craft easily controllable. I’m a competent pilot, but designs that need 10 tries to get an ascent angle exactly right will likely not fare very well. Obviously if something dumb happens I will not be a dick and re-fly it anyway. What if the kerbals die? All designs should be made with the intent of the crew surviving. That said, should the kerbals die not all is lost. Standard family reimbursement policy dictates that 25% of projected profit should go to the family of any deceased kerbal. That means that in case of a total crew explosion you will be docked 75% of your profit from that mission. You can purchase life insurance (inappropriately listed as a technology) to cut this amount in half. What about salvage? Once ‘Salvage Tech I’ has been purchased parts listed as having a salvage percentage above 0 can be salvaged for the listed percentage of their cost. Parts will count as salvaged if they are either landed without exploding or jettisoned with an attached parachute. One parachute will safely descend 4 mass units (one big engine and 4 empty fuel tanks = 3,2). Purchasing technologies Almost all parts are available from turn 1, the technologies available for purchase make them cheaper and/or give them better salvage percentages. You are allowed to purchase one technology per turn, so choose wisely.

Thank you

Speaking of the RCS mission, do you need just the one RCS thruster block, which would satisfy the \'with RCS\' bit, or would you need four of them, to satisfy the \'for docking\' (one block is not very controllable )

Care to test the scenario that was talked about in some other thread? Can\'t remember if that was with you or someone else. Starting scenario = stable mun orbit, method 1 = kill lateral velocity then \'fall\' and stop. method 2 = lower PE and then brake+land.