Andrew Zachary Foreman

Haha. Went to Hell. I don't know if that was intentional but it sure was funny! Ok, then let's hand wave it, and go with your suggestion for now. If most of the facility was designed for processing the CO2 then that would mean that they would need to re-purpose the machinery for other functions, like growing food on a huge scale. Are we all in agreement now that they could survive on their own for at least five decades without outside help?

The plot mostly follows the second and third generation fighting for survival as their home falls apart from wear and tear. It is a story of duct tape repair and last minute rescue. I want a good explanation for why they are there in the first place though.

That's fantastic! It sounds like a really workable model for getting enough to water to meed demands! You guys are making good points. The primary reason I chose Venus is because modern science fiction hasn't done much with it, and I love the concept behind the setting. I want this to make sense though. What reason would they have for building a highly expensive colony above the atmosphere? What kind of economic trade off could there be, @DerekL1963, @Scotius

Since this is science fiction, what if we say that a rare element or something like else along those lines was discovered on Venus? This could make the planet seem a lot more welcoming. Also, our understanding of the planet is still premature enough that it wouldn't be unfair to rule this out as a possibility.

Everyone has raised good points. I want to explain the proposed timeline more thoroughly than I have. Hopefully, this will enable you guys to see what I need a little clearer. 1. Around 2050-2060 A colony is formed in Venerian atmosphere mostly as a scientific experiment. 2. Between 2050 and 2080 the Colony is developed to the extent that it can now fully support 500 people with aid from Earth. Colony somehow must become economically viable. I am looking for explanations as to how this would be done. I heard CO2, but there might be better ways. 3. Around 2080 all communication is suddenly and dramatically cut off. At this time all spaceships would have been in transit. There is no way to escape Venus, Venerians must either learn how to survive or all die. (This is crucial to the plot so we really can't do too much with this.) 4. Eventually, contact with other humans will be restored. This will open up the opportunity to get resources that can enable them to repair their ship and anything else they need. This should happen around 2130-2140. Highlights, Fully staffed and fully supported up until 2080. Everyone in the colony would have had advanced education and been in the age range of 20-40. Given several decades, successive generations would have been born. Once primary education is completed children would have been apprenticed to learn a specific science. Since this would require everyone to be a teacher of their trade this would negate some of bottleneck population problem. Furthermore, I imagine that the way in which people today are utilizing resources like YouTube and Khan Academy to learn could be used to a much higher degree aboard the airship in the event that the last person of a skilled trade met an untimely death. Given the scarcity of water vapor how would you propose we harvest it in the first place? Developing incredibly heat and pressure resistant equipment for mining at the poles would still be essential. Could this be done? In conclusion, is it absolutely necessary that they find a way to collect additional resources from the ground?

It needs to be a colony that is 95% sustainable. I am fine if it is slowly wearing down over time as long as that "overtime" period is several decades. Does that make sense? I checked it out and now I have a visual to work with. I don't know though, the idea is really cool but is it practical? I still think that if it were possible to use such tech you might as well start mining away the peaks. You raise a good point. Nearly all of the colonists are scientists. Blue collar work doesn't play much of a factor on the work force. I have imagined that once kids would get through their primary education they would study under the scientist in their field almost like an apprentice. They would also have a vast database of knowledge to draw on.

That sounds great! How would the process work and how heavy would it need to be?

Thanks again guys! This is a great discussion. Some of you were wondering about the population that the airship will need to support. Originally, I planned for around 500. From my limited research this should be enough to avoid unwanted genetic defects from sprouting out in successive generations. I had thought about splitting this number up on a couple of smaller ships, but that seems impractical now. So, unless it would simply be impossible, what would it take for five hundred people to survive at least six or seven decades with no outside help? It seems like the biggest concern right now is how to gather resources to meet needs. I will talk about this below on all of your separate points, but I will quickly list the different proposals now. also, please realize that none of these have to be mutually exclusive. 1. Use a heat sink to gather and filter trace elements from the sky. 2. Mine from mountain peaks. 3. Make literally everything from organics. 4. Use some sort of scooping mechanism that extends a machine down near the surface that could collect metals and then be towed back up. So solar is still the way to go? How would using kites and sails work? Like a glider in our own atmosphere? So if the atmosphere simply can't provide what is needed, what do we do? It seems like going down to the surface would be even harder. Any equipment that would be used to mine resources from the mountain peaks would be extraordinarily heat and pressure resistant. The problem is that I don't know if this is plausible. I'm interested by this idea of almost "scooping" resources from near the ground. Wouldn't you have to at least within 10 km of the surface by that point though? And if you could do that, it seems by that point you might as well just mine mountain peaks. Right, growth isn't important, just maintaining the statue quo.

I will. Thanks for the suggestion!

And this would actually be doable? Can you foresee any problems that would arise from trying to use carbon to meet most building needs for several decades?

Why do I need a chain? I want the airships to be able to travel across the planet. What could I use carbon for? could that really meet all of their material needs? Would you mind explaining the air/mass ratio in terms I can understand? I think you are saying that for every ton of mass I have I need three tons of air. And that would be at .5 atm? What if it were lower? I think that having the aircraft lower and investing more in a heat reduction system would better serve our purposes. Balloons the size of small countries are definitely not going to work. Not possible. They are "air locked" so to speak. Their tech makes long stays on the ground unfeasible, and they are terrified of returning to orbit. I have thought about the possibility that they could mine resources from the tops of mountains, but that still might require a stretch of imagination. Are you saying to ignore wind energy and go for solar? That sounds way better. Although I am concerned with weight that all of those solar cells will add.

First off, thanks to everyone who has contributed! Your feedback is fantastic, and is a major boon to my research. If any of you are curious, you can check out my blog here, azfstories.worpress.com. I am posting frequent updates on the book if anyone wants to see what ideas I am pulling off of here. The next post will be up tomorrow night. Thanks. That is actually a really good point as it would be very tough. The major crisis in the first book will be overcoming a massive system malfunction. I know almost nothing about how a geothermal system would work. I understand that Venus gets about 40% more solar energy than Earth, and if you assume that efficiency rates will have improved over the course of several decades it seems like the best way to get energy would be to focus on solar. What are your thoughts on that? Ok....A little over my head but ok. Could this bacterial vat hypothetically meet all of the water needs of a colony housing a couple hundred people? Also, should I consider using this as a means to create hydrogen to lift the colony, or is that not worth my time? This is just a thought. I still think it makes more sense to use a breathable mix of air. They would be very intelligent, yes. It is assumed that initial colonists would have to be vetted. It is very important for the plot of the book that they cannot access outer space. Do you have a better suggestion for what would hold them back? I am starting to realize that I need to focus more on the life support systems on the ship. It is going to have to be absolutely massive. My starting idea was to make it big enough to fully support 500 people. Now that seems unrealistic. Most of the first generation would be highly skilled, although much of the education would have to deal with meteorology and surviving in the atmosphere. Successive generations would have a broader scope in purpose.

This wouldn't work with the plot I have set up in the book though, although you do have it right that Venusians would be a very proud people. Due to the nature in which they lost all contact with Earth Venusians became very fearful and superstitious about what was going on in greater space, and any spaceships traveling between planets would have disappeared at about the same time as well. This would mean that they reengineering their habitats for space travel would be impossible. So they are trapped. Are there any workarounds? This is set at the bare minimum, thirty or forty years down the road, so they would have some tech at their disposal that we do not. I big part of my book is that when Earth went off the radar all people currently living above Venus experienced radio silence. This caused superstition and fear as to why there was no contact and this would have pushed them to stay out of space at all costs. At some point I do plan to introduce other humans that have advanced, interplanetary travel tech, so let's say they only need to survive for fifty through a hundred years. What can you give me? How long do you think they could get by, assuming they were running like a well oiled machine before before everything happened? Also, what would it take to mine minerals off the surface? As I understand we wouldn't have that ability with current tech.

Awesome! Thanks! The concept for the book is that the colonists were put there and then lost all contact with Earth. They didn't have enough resources to get outside of Venus and back to Earth so they decided to stay. Eventually they learned how to survive and lost all desire to waste the resources to find out what happened. Catching fire on the habitat would kind of suck... I don't have an issue with massive balloons required to lift the colonies. Collecting resources still remains my chief problem. I only care about lifting ratio so i know how big the balloon needs to be. That is my big kicker right now. I don't need a thorough explanation for how they got there. Just how they managed to survive.

1. & 2. I looked at the page. Do you have any idea why some people are saying it would be more like tropical weather at 50 km? 3. Yeah, I need to know how much air I am going to need to lift the required mass for several hundred people to live. 4. So the people that would be living above Venus most likely don't have the ability to reach asteroids. What is the second best option? 5. I read that Venus reflects 40% more solar energy than Earth, so that will account for some of it. Wind energy could also contribute as the wind speeds can reach 210 mph. I also plan to utilize a GMO bacterium that breaks down CO2 into energy and oxygen. Do you think that is feasible? Thanks. When you say 80 Fahrenheit do mean a range of 80 Fahrenheit, or that it would be 80 Fahrenheit at 50 km? If you mean the latter, how did you determine that? Wouldn't hydrogen pose a danger of exploding? It seems like some gases would be better suited than others.

Hey guys! I am new to the kerbal community and really hoping y'all can help me out! I am writing a novel about life among the clouds of Venus and I need help figuring out some basic science about how people would do it. I have done quite a bit of research online but there still remains a number of questions I can't seem to answer. They are as follows: 1. What is the range of atmospheric pressure above Venus in the range of 20-50 Km? I understand that near the top would be about 1 bar. 2. What would the temperature range be like in this 20-50 km area? I have heard wildly different estimates. Some say that towards the bottom of this 20 km the temperature would be near tropical climate and that higher up, close to the 50 km, the temp would be closer to sub-polar. Then again, others have said that even near the top of this range the temp would be well above 150 Fahrenheit. This would imply that it would be even warmer the lower you go. 3. My third question should be fairly easy to clear up. The habitat design in my book mimics airships. The things I need to know are how much mass can a given quantity of air lift, and what would be the pros and cons of helium, hydrogen, and earth air. Should there be any other gases I should consider? 4. The highest mountain on Venus is about 11 km as I understand. Would it be practical to mine resources from mountain tops to fuel an expanding economy? If it wouldn't, what other options would there be? My understanding is that asteroids would be too far away to be practical and that the atmosphere wouldn't have enough elements to meet all of the expected needs. 5. How hard would it be to get water from sulfuric acid? Are there any other things I need to know? Remember, I am a noob at this and really want my book to be scientifically accurate. Thanks a ton for any help you can offer me!