Danger Will Kerbinson!

And this is really the nuts of the whole issue. Forgot the people who don't care about having to babysit for 3 minutes to orbit, or have to fiddle during a 2 second circularization burn. What are you supposed to do on a 5 minute burn to another planet? Fiddle and fight for 5 minutes to keep it sort of on the mark and then make a dozen more correction burns because it turns out that a few degrees off for a few seconds in space is ACTUALLY a big deal. Its the difference between an encounter and not, the difference between a PE of 50km and -50 or 500000. If you want to fly an elegant mission and use your delta V with caution this doesn't help, Id rather not bring up an extra tank of fuel for oopsies, thats not a good mission in my mind. Its playable, yeah but its not what is intended. The is not a tedium simulator, I have Train Simulator 2013 for that. And yes there is a work around, I am going to get the new MechJeb and let Smart A.S.S. drive for me, I do that a lot anyway on long burns as the mark would always drift over time since you can never be pinpoint on the mark manually over a long burn. But we should not have to mod to make it function the way it did 2 days ago for simple things.

Well the chances of the problem being fixed are pretty slim at this point. The big angry thread was closed with the magical pronouncement by a mod that the "problem that many people were having has been solved" Its not fixed, its been mitigated. Proclaiming its fixed won't get it fixed for real.

It is better. It is not resolved.

No, the problem is it has the torque, it has the control surfaces and gimballing engines to do what you want to do...the PROBLEM is that it is not using that power to hold the heading given.

The new patch has done a lot to cover up the issue. As is the case with most people it is NOT caused by a joystick for me. Now if I fly an intentionally unbalanced rocket it will hold a course-ish. What is still happening on my testing is that right at launch my thrust imbalance will give it a 5 degree tilt at lift off and it will hold that heading, previousty it just flipped it right into the ground. There is PLENTY of control authority to move the ball back to straight up, its not a big imbalance...what it wont do is hold that, it flops back to the prograde marker. To get it back to straight I have to over correct and then let it flop back. It should hold the heading I give if there is the control authority to do so. Im not asking for it to provide a magic boost to thrust, control surfaces or torque wheels...just to use the control authority it has to maintain the heading its given. All you have to do is watch the video of intended behavior to see its not what is happening.

How exactly is rehashing all the things that are NOT the problem dozens of times helping? Its not design, its not user error, its not electricity, its not mods, its not clean installs, its not joysticks, its not gypsy magic, its not a New Kids on the Block reunion. Yet page after page of "Its pods, electricity, joysticks, you suck" over and over and over. Don't have a problem? Yay, go play. You are not helping by saying "Works for me!"

And here we go with another 2 very helpful posts of the "Nothing is wrong with my build, therefore its not possible for there to be anything wrong with yours" variety. You forgot to add in some helpful hint we are forgetting like maybe to face up or stop steering on purpose into the ground to really round out the insight.

What rapidly spinning designs? The source of the complaint is rockets wandering off course. Yes the hotfix is great, its still not right though, better is not always fixed.

Who here thinks SAS is an autopilot? Nobody except those introducing a strawman to the mess. Attitude control does not equal auto pilot. C7 says its designed to hold attitude, HarvestR says the same and both say its not working as intended. Why should we believe someone not involved with the development who demands that this is not the case as you have?

Have you watched the C7 demo video? If you do you will see the intended behavior. Many of us are not getting anything close to that behavior. In fact c7 uses the words "lock onto that new heading" several times in the video, and thats what it does. His space station even swings back to the place he released manual control, very similar to how the old SAS behaved, it did not just sort of slow down and stop in a random place. So if the guy who built it says its designed to hold a heading I am going to go out on a limb and trust that that IS the intended behavior. What I had was nothing of the kind, not even in the neighborhood of holding a heading. It was akin to steering with your knee while drunk from the passenger side.

Explain to me where I am not understanding your meaning. We are just used to the old version, don't understand the new version and should deal with it. Sounds fairly dismissive of the issue to me. In your mind there is NO issue at all, the only problem is those of us who 'imagine' a problem. Posting a dozen times that you are being unjustly assailed by drooling cretins lacking decency and failing literacy as you faint onto your pity couch is not going to unwrite what you wrote. Come in and dismiss the issue, you yourself will have no credibility and shall be dismissed, guess you have to deal with it.

You came in and said nothing was wrong, it was in our heads, this is how it is supposed to be and we should just get used to it. Ignoring that there have been examples posted of things NOT working the way they should. Ignoring that the guy who made the thing has said its not what was intended. Ignoring that there has been a patch already that has helped fix the issue. So really, coming in to stir up the hornets nest and then clutching your pearls when someone, or several someones call you on it is ridiculous.

When you wander into a thread and drop a "Sorry if this is rude, but you are all a bunch of morons" type post don't expect a ticker tape parade.

Oh, Im sorry...wanting an issue looked into is a dick move now. But screaming AGAINST a bug being fixed is some noble deed? What was wrong with you people that did NOT want the minority of us to play? I'm waiting in anticipation of this stunning revelation.

My favorite part of this whole dust up has been the never ending stream of genius posters who come into threads 12, 20, 67 pages deep with mind blowing 'fixes' us poor dummies never though of before griefing it up on the forum. 1. Electricity...herp derp 2. You need a command pod...damn, I was all set to just blast off naked tanks with engines. 3. Moar control surface, more reaction wheels! Here is a clue, if i can manually move it back from a drift it HAD PLENTY OF CONTROL AUTHORITY at its disposal, it was NOT using more than a tiny fraction. 4. Post a creenshot or video of everything working fine on their install + condescending bs about how we must be spoiled by mechjeb/unable to grasp the concept of balance, center of mass and thrust/not understanding how the new system is SUPPOSED to work. Show them the C7 video of how its supposed to work and how your video is doing NOTHING shown in the demo video and they just dismiss it. After all, why would the guy who built the thing, made the demo video etc have any idea how it was supposed to work. The new patch is a HUGE step up. At least the "DONT YOU COMPLAIN, HATER!" brigage didn't manage to get their wish, as stupid as it was that roughly a third of players didn't have working control. Why exactly was that? Can one of you morons explain why it was you were SO against an issue being fixed?

Maybe Ive had a stroke recently but a thread about nothing is wrong doesn't help anything. If you are not allowed to be counted with those who do have a problem it paints this rosy picture that nothing is wrong, because just read this thread....no problems to be seen, because that is forbidden to speak of them. Maybe you could sell this thread idea to the middle east, they are looking for a problem solver for some issues they have.

I don't understand either side of the forum warrior attitude most of the time. On one hand you have people bending over backward to deny there is a problem and white knighting for the devs like they are being paid, on the other its people with rabid hatred demanding the lead programmer fly to their house NOW, middle of the night be damned. Why can't it be simple. There is a problem. Work the problem. But, you people posting "its all fine for me, you just suck/ are used to MJ/its a feature, its supposed to work like crap" don't make finding a solution any easier. If the people with a problem didn't have to spend 9/10th's of their energy fighting off slander from the all is well majority its entirely possible that a smoking gun could emerge. Crazy ****, but it could happen.

I had forgotten how easy that rocket controls in his vid Tiron, it does swing back a tiny bit as he does his gravity turn...but he just dumped it over...and the spring back is far less than I get when moving it very slowly and gently. It seems if I try to move more than a few degrees ahead of the prograde mark it will not be able to hold anything close to that new heading, plus I get all this yaw wandering when Im only pitching.

Tiron, I just watched that vid again....you are right, it does go back to where the buttons were released. His station wobbles back and forth till it gets there. My ships do not do that. What they do is when you release the control it will being to slow but continue for quite a while, it will slow to a stop eventually and stay (sort of) there, there is no spring back at all.

From my observation on my wandering SAS is not using engine gimbals at all on my rockets unless its from MY input, but for trying to hold course its only using torque, and seemingly not much of it. Ive watched a lot of launches zoomed right into the bell nozzle, even as my rocket is wildly swinging back from being nudged over into a gravity turn that SAS does not feel I should be doing or something so it does not feel the need to use engine gimballs. It WILL use control surfaces...but they don't seem to do anything when the SAS is using them, they visually move but the swaying will continue. Its a lot like trying to balance a broom on your palm, you can keep it pointing up pretty well, but it requires constant input and its not solid feeling.

Except for those of us where its NOT holding a heading, not at all. Im not talking about the old days, spinning around, letting go of F right on the mark and just waiting for it to get back there. Starting from no movement, with SAS engaged, on a balanced rocket, with power, in a vacuum, using a command pod with reaction wheels and SAS, using extra reaction wheels, with gimballing engines...and away it drifts when you hit the gas. Its like the SAS is sort of a suggestion, it will usually keep it sort of in the neighborhood, but half an inch off the marker, and floating about is quite a difference when aiming at another planet. It seems the people who have no problem just can not comprehend that anything could be wrong, we are all lunatics imagining this, or "cheaters" spoiled by mechjeb or too stupid to have the proper parts on our ships. There is no way Squad intended the control I have now on rockets to be this way, its no way to get anywhere.

I've built a small, simple, perfectly symmetrical rocket with a dozen reaction wheels and it still wanders. It is noticable in how fast it reacts to turn input so they are doing something, but holding a heading they are not. Not even close. Unlike ComradeGoats plane though mine drifts in random ways instead of always up and down. It handles exactly the way it used to if you had SAS turned off, it needs constant babysitting during a burn.

Edit: just as I post this I see what posted above me. KSP store.

The ONLY common thread I am seeing to problems is a high number of those with problems, like me, are using the steam install. I've posted in the bug tracking thread but the person who made it did not thing that was important enough to include so only a few people tacked that info on. If I'm looking for bugs the FIRST variable I'm looking at is different versions, this should be looked at and possibly ruled out first.

I have a mouse....want me to unplug it? Might make doing everything else in the game challenging. Clean install, yes its on steam, no mods, I approached this in a very careful way because I saw the forum screaming before I bothered to update and play. Steam seems to be common among the people with problems. Any steam people who are totally fine?