helldiver

Yeah the turbo-pumps for the fuel preburners

The new EX will have some interchangeability but I can't stress enough that the whole purpose of the Orbiter in this Mod, is that the wings blend into the body into an aerodynamic delta. Something not possible with kit parts, KSP stock, or other mods. That being said since I've learned a lot since the first mod, you can expect some parts to be symmetrical along the X, possibly Y, so you can use them with Radial Symmetry or Surface Attachment in other mods. Several major components will have radial symmetry, I can't list which ones since I'm still in the process of putting them together.

KSO EX work continues I had to limit my time in the past couple months due to work. However I'm back to working on the project. I haven't posted updates since a lot of stuff was UVW related. Basically, going back in and giving areas (such as areas with text) a larger spot on the UVW map so we don't get so much distortion if the textures are compressed. For example, the new SSME texture can be made smaller and still look ok while the text on the nozzle remains readable. But yes KSO EX work continues after a break I'll have something visual to show soon!

New EX is like 75% modular, you can build it however you wish. You'll just have to rotate the rcs or add more depending. However as my post stated the Rear end is not modular and the firewall in the rear will have its tiles made in a way where they properly sculpt around the RCS modules as if fitted as shown in my preview shots. So if you decide to put two rudders on it, you'll have to either put them on top the RCS modules (totally doable), move the RCS modules (such as just use one instead of two) or move things around. The "skin" of the rear end won't have details on it like the super 25 did. However, the new KSO EX has interior. In other words, all the plumbing, electrical, frame work, and such is visible. So if you open up the rear end, you'll see clipping if you put the RCS modules elsewhere, or if you use a cut-away view. I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself fully. Best to hold off until I have better more complete shots of everything. I'm not really open to discussing KSO EX development. Also don't want to spam up this thread with EX development posts, just wanted to post and show progress shots so people know I'm still alive

Wow this blew up, my sincere apologies to everyone for not checking back. Will also answer questions sent to my box (which I also appreciate). KSO Standard (released in late 2013?) and KSO "Super" 25 (released in 2014-early 2015) Nazari will be taking ownership of those two shuttle project files once the EX is complete and released. He will continue to keep them up to date as his time and discretion allows. They will no longer be a part of the KSOS Mod for KSP, making sure that is clear since I don't want folks upset in the future when the KSO EX drops. The 3D Models and mesh data will be released as part of an alternate downloads pack. Several people, including our own testing team wished to have them to learn, build on, expand, or even release their own mod. In other words they will become a part of the KSP Modding community. This is an effort in my part to encourage and promote more folks getting involved in 3D modeling, modding, model making, and learning how game art is made. Why are the two shuttles being taken out of the mod and becoming their own thing? Why won't you work on them anymore? When I built the first one, I didn't know what KSPs internal requirements were. It wasn't until I worked with Nazari through three mods.... (KSO, Super 25 and the satellite parts)... that I finally understood how KSP "worked". There were also a lot of communication issues between him and I. In some cases he'd use different terminology than I'm used to, causing big issues (like referring to Transforms where I call them Pivots and so on). This also affected size. When I built the first one, my goal was really to have a mini shuttle. This was because I never expected there to be much interest in anything bigger than 1.5m to haul stuff up to space. I figured the community wanting a shuttle was small as it were. I even talked about this a couple times in that thread and it seemed to me anyone wanting to haul stuff up would just use conventional rockets. So after lots of demands I put the KSO "Super" 25 together as a temporary solution until KSOS Phase 6 (KSO EX). With the KSO EX, Nazari and I came to a conclusion: Why waste people's resource space as it is, just make the EX 2.5+ and solve the resource issue in one go. No more 4+ textures hogging up memory, no more dealing with two shuttles that need constant upgrading and repairs as Squad updates the game. I'm sure you guys can see where this is going. In other words a single shuttle can be made to look 2 times better, have more features, have better textures and still take up a smaller footprint on your hard drive (ergo, less memory on KSP loading being hogged up). Since the first shuttle I learned a lot, including upgrading various artwork creation tools and my entire art pipeline has changed. For that reason, the older shuttles are slowly becoming incompatible on my end. The new shuttle is essentially compatible with all next-gen artwork. That means the new shuttle can potentially support a PBR type arrangement if Squad ever takes advantage of Unity 5's shader capabilities. I will be experimenting with Nazari on this. KSP has changed and there are new features coming in that the older shuttles couldn't support. The new shuttle will have the foundation for internal views besides just IVAs. The older shuttles would have to be re-baked and essentially re-UVed in order to support that sort of thing. Just not worth the time and effort. Why no more twin tail arrangement? To lower the amount of parts on the shuttle in game. Twin tails also presented all sorts of problems especially with RCS getting in the way and such. The EX is more of a modern take on NASA's space shuttle, rather than a Kerbal space shuttle while still retaining some of the look. Simplicity How modular is the EX compared to the other shuttles? As modular as it can be. The problem will always remain: Blending the delta wing into the cargo bay while still making the landing gear close in and be smooth. I think we have a good middle ground with this new design. I'm trying to make as many of the parts as modular as possible as seen above. You will be able to pull off the RCS blocks and re-arrange them or use them in other projects. The tanks can also be surface mounted on other projects. The shroud in the rear can be toggled on and off, in case prefer to reveal the guts of the thing or if you have a mod that allows your Kerbals to access the plumbing for repairs. All parts where possible will have this capability including the rear end of the shuttle where the SSME's mount. Speaking of SSMEs, the KSO EX aside from new OMS engines will replace the project SSMEs with the Thrustmax Aerojet (thrust not decided yet). Although stylized to be slightly "kerbally" they are highly detailed and modeled after the Space Shuttle Engines (Aerojet Rocketdyne RS-25) The old lift vehicles will not be a part of the KSOS mod any more, they too will be retired along with the other shuttles. The KSO EX will have a completely new lift vehicle incompatible with the old models. Currently we're discussing that the new EFT will be 3.5m capable. It will follow the NASA Space Shuttle lifter design and not the Buran design. This is because the new lifter will be designed with radial symmetry in mind a problem the older shuttles always had. This new lifter will be fully modular. Naming them and colors was always an issue, how does the new project solve that? Good question. As I said earlier it is my intent to keep the main texture "skin" completely separate from flags and names. Unity 5 shaders as long as a decal is placed over a pixel shaded model (as opposed to vertex shaded), it shouldn't have z-buffer issues. I'm not at that point yet, but it is my intent to experiment with removing the AO from the diffuse so that you guys only get a color diffuse and can simply just recolor a texture as you like. The name can be changed in the VAB and you'll be able to change it and make your own. Unfortunately you will have to know how to handle image alphas in order for your own custom name to show up correctly. Will we be able to see the interior from the outside? Unfortunately no, not until Squad supports that feature (EVA looking into IVA) by default. However, I'm putting together a middle ground compromise mainly for glass shader effects. The main reason being that it would probably kill people's computers to be able to see into the actual IVA directly from the outside. This is not to be confused with the shuttle internals which are low resolution models. Will there be windows in the moon door to see up as you dock, will there be windows looking into the cargo bay? Yes and yes Flaps? No, we're done with that. It was a mistake in my part. CSEs will still extend but will operate like flaperons essentially. What parts are not modular? The main wings. This is because of how radial symmetry works in KSP. The bottom side of them is black with the tiles, the top is white with the heat blankets (FIB). The bottom has the landing gear wells and doors. Also, the wings root chords themselves would not be symmetrical if you drew a line through the root rib. The rear end. For obvious reasons, the rear end can only fit the cargo bay. An adaptor will be made for this shuttle like the original had but will not be part of the first release. The cargo bay. You may be able to stack the cargo bay to make a longer shuttle, however, I'm not sure if that is possible as of the last edit (been working on other parts and haven't revisited the fuselage yet). As long as I don't need more space for the main landing gear, it should be stackable creating a long "shuttle train" if that's what you're into. The cockpit. Like the rear end, I -will- release a cockpit to KSP adaptor that will allow you to use the cockpit on KSP's stock space shuttle. However, like the rear end shroud, this will not be part of the first release. Front nosecone. This part is in a shape that only fits the cockpit. Also, this part contains the front RCS module sub assembly. Will there be an airbrake? Yes. Nazari had some issues with it on the rudder, but I can put airbrakes anywhere, we just haven't decided where we want it yet. Does the rudder have a spot for a drogue chute? Yes. How tall will the new shuttle be (how high off the ground), or will the kerbals not be able to walk under it? Sadly, I have a feeling the Kerbals might not be able to walk under this shuttle this time. That has to do with how much space we have for the main landing gear to fold and fit inside the wings without clipping. Since the new landing gear do not compress, chances are that the new shuttle might not have enough ground clearance to allow a kerbal to walk under it with a helmet on. There would be no way of knowing for now. Any other questions feel free to send them my way or ask here.

It's not an issue of not wanting to add more people perse, it's really just me not wanting to be swamped with the same reports Basically, back in the day when Nazari had just signed on to just put the original KSO into KSP, I thought I was going to have to be more involved in the Unity -> KSP process. But since he took over the actual internal parts of the KSO, config files and all the other stuff, the amount of people needed to test became less and less. The main requirement for testers was to test behavior of how the shuttle would interact with other mods and other situations using parts I didn't know about or was used to. I don't want to announce or say what's all going on at this moment. But in the coming week I'll be making announcements regarding the mod as well as its new direction. I think more people will be happy than sad, and after all that was always my goal; to encompass as many players with a good "kerbally" looking shuttle. And so I present: Please keep in mind that it is a WIP and will still be a bit until it is ready for me to even begin texturing it. Current features planned: 2.7 meter usable width of the cargo bay. 5.5m length as of the latest edits. Moon Door can fit a standard docking port easily with plenty of room. Moon Door bay will have colliders for additional equipment. Measured and built to Squad's KSP measurements. What I see in Max, is what Nazari sees in Unity and what you guys will see in game. No more weird scaling and "virtual" measurements. Significant savings in texture memory footprint. With this will come at caveat; No more KSO Standard, No more KSO Super 25. These will no longer be part of the mod. KSO EX replaces both of those. With the exception of the Cockpit, Nose Cone, Cargo Bay, Rear End and CSEs, all parts of this mod are fully 100% modular and usable with other KSP parts. The wings are still up in the air do to the way the surfaces blend into the body. However they may still be used in other projects. Fuselage no longer a single part. RCS, MONO tanks, engine mountings are all separate parts usable in other projects. Don't like my RCS? Use a stock RCS or RCS from another mod and still have it look good in the shuttle. Rear End and RCS tank shrouds can all be removed revealing interior detail and additional mounting locations for more stuff. All parts will have interior details... yes, the formers, frames, ribs, plumbing, electrical, electrical boxes, batteries, turbo pumps, hydraulics.... yes.. all that will be modeled. KSO EX supports Squad's proposed "Internal View" feature. It may not be complete when I release the mod, but it will fully support it. Full support for Flags, alternate names, and "Drag and Drop" name changing. No more having to change the entire texture! Fully modeled and detailed cockpit interior and Moon Door bay. NASA Space Shuttle-like cargo bay. All new fully modular EFT, EFT to Shuttle mounting frames, and sepatrons. All new fully modular SRBs, yes SRBs, not LRBs anymore. Landing Gear and all other parts besides those mentioned above are self contained and no longer have boxes around them. That means you can use the main gear in other projects without them looking out of place. Potential Features Drag and Drop Albedo/Diffuse texture changing. This will allow you to edit the primary shuttle texture and still receive proper lighting/surface/displacement. Support for additional parts, storage compartments, and supplies in the cockpit. This feature would remove the outer skin of the cabin allowing you to mount more parts. Support for Kerbalism as well as TAC Life Support mods. Possibility for the Cargo Bay to also be modular allowing you to stack several of them making a really long shuttle...

Either that or you really should use KAS if they've updated it.

Check op again.

You'll have to elaborate. Windows version works fine? What do you mean by that? Thanks!

Could also be he suffers from the same bug other folks have with the ADI/HUD in KSOS. We never really solved that.

Double check op. Should be a link for KSOS Complete, Manual Install.

Kerbal Stuff link. https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/591/Kerbin%20Shuttle%20Orbiter%20System

looks like you have an outdated version of RPM. Make sure you have the newest included in 4.12

A Curse mirror will be up soon. We're currently cleaning up my master file library to make sure it includes some fixes. 4.12 will be up tonight once Mediafire stops being lame.

Do to the significant differences, it would be Block 5 "Blocks" don't necessarily change the internals (unlike version or variant A, B, C, F etcetera) instead it changes configuration. Although in the U.S. a production run will usually have it's own block. For example you could have different blocks (Block 50/52) of an F-16C and F-16D.

Yeah Snjo does that sometimes (mod specific Firespitter.dll compilations). In fact KSOS was using a customized firespitter.dll he compiled for me for a while whilst we troubleshot the helicopter. Just use which ever works best for as many of your mods. Hehehe. Firespitter.dll has so many features and it's teetering on bloat at this point.

Oooh, didn't know they changed the folder name. How weird. I just changed it to what we were using since I figured it was just your zip file. Hah! I'll change it on the next update if that's what they'll be using.

Standard KSO orbiter is for campaign mode. It's a cheaper alternative until you can get to the EWBCL. The Standard KSO should also be cheaper to run than the EWBCL especially if you have your own 2.5+ delivery setup that doesn't use or need an orbiter. Uploading 4.11 tonight which just updated the gimbal plugin and craft files.

You can easily... or should be able to make the ATM ignore the normal maps in the config file. I've done it before, I just didn't have time to make a config for this update. Otherwise, are you able to run it without ATM? And yes, there's something the ATM guys are doing to the textures that is foreign to me. I've used DDS texture compression all my life and have never had the terrible artifacts ATM causes. - - - Updated - - - Yeah I brought that up to Nazari a long time ago. The problem is that the KSP engine takes a snapshot of an object in its full animated position. The KSP devs know a trick that I don't unfortunately on how to get around that.

Pack downloads are now updated. -Please check for crashes -KSOS requires ATM, I haven't been able to run it without it. Feel free to experiment with the ATM KSO config files if you feel it's destroying the external normal maps.

4.10 Is now up. Pack downloads are not updated, but should be updated shortly. You must run Active Texture Management in order for KSOS to work without crashing. Either version works, but I only tested with Basic x86. Please report on here if you are still getting crashes. -Firespitter updated to the February compatibility release. -JSI RasterPropMonitor updated to the compatibility version done by MOARdv -SmokeScreen updated. I removed installer link for now since it still pointed to version 4.09. Once FREEMANtsinq gets a hold of me with v4.10 or any other changes, I'll upload the latest installer. Happy gaming!

Hrm, currently crashing KSP when it starts. Ahh well. Looks like we finally hit that texture limit Firespitter broke in 0.90, so KSOS definitely broken. Once all the mods this relies on gets updated, I'll try and update the downloads.

Not sure what you mean by that. We don't have a tool to assign different textures to the 3D models and there's a whole bunch of other problems. And I didn't know there was such a bug in .25

You built it wrong. Either use the provided craft files, or make sure that the wheel markers are pointing down towards the ground.

Firespitter proper hasn't been recompiled for 0.25 yet by Snjo. He has a hot fix: Firespitter for 0.25 which should get rid of the warning.