darkmuminek

First of all, there are many discussions here whether using mods is fine or not and I don't intend to start another one. Also, don't look at this as a rant or an attack on Squad. I'm just curious about one thing. Let's say I just started a thread in the suggestions forum saying: "We already have visuals of reentry. It would be great to also have the effects on our vessels.". Let's also say it's the first suggestion of this, so we won't have people shouting: "OMG, USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION NOOB!". I'm pretty sure one of the first replies would be: "Well you're in luck. There's a great mod called Deadly Reentry that does just what you ask for." And there's more. You want resource mining? There's Kethane and Karbonite. Flight information display? MechJeb, VOID or Kerbal Engineer. More parts? Try the amazing B9 and KW packs. The list goes on... Now, I'm not against mods. Quite the contrary, I love them and if only a game supports it I download a ton of modifications. However that applies mostly to finished games. With early access we buy games that are still in development and adding features should be the developer's job. Making a game so easy to change by third parties, wouldn't it be treated as an excuse for the devs to postpone new functionalities? Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Squad is doing this, but probably most will agree some features should be made stock a long time ago. So the main question is: Do you think excessive modding of early access games can slow down the process of development?

There is a common misconception that early access players are testers. They're not. A tester is someone, who (presumably) does that for a living. He's getting paid to do it. He spends countless hours playing just a tiny fraction of the game and checking it for bugs. After that he fills a survey or writes a report. Then he starts playing countless hours of another portion of the game, fills a survey/writes a report. Repeat. Just because you've got 300, 600 or 2000 hours of gameplay on your Steam account and write a few suggestions on these forums doesn't make you a tester. You bought a product called a video game. You didn't buy an alpha, nor did you buy a beta. You bought a game in development. The fact you bought a product makes you a consumer and as a consumer you have every right to have an opinion. Some of this opinions will be good, others will be bad. Moreso, Squad took our money to be able to develop KSP. Without it they'd have to find alternative ways of funding it. They'd take a bank loan or find a publisher. This is why the fanboy police shouting: "It's Harvester's game! Stop complaining! He can do whatever he likes and you have to accept it!" is, sorry for the harsh words, stupid and childish. In standard game development there is a publisher and a developer. Not getting into details, the publisher funds the developer and has a great impact on the entire process of making the game and how it will look like. Now, we gave our money to Squad by buying an early access release. With this money Squad can further develop the game. What does it make us? That's right - publishers. There are differences of course. We do not share profits from sales. We do not directly participate in the development process, but we are entitled to express our disappointments, to criticize the gameplay, features, updates or Squad's attitude. As for .90 itself. I like the direction KSP is heading, but there are many thing that need to be changed (saying "minor tweaks" just proves you are a fanboy and will take anything Squad throws at you without criticism). The science system is completely broken since day one. Granted, there were some changes, but it's still about spamming the experiments instead of designing them and using your brain. No to mention having to do experiments that take time to give data. That would make space station, ground bases and satellites something more than a nice decoration. More variety in contracts is nice. Too bad they're badly designed. Testing parts is a pain, especially during the first stages of gameplay. Surveys are nice but again: doing them before researching plane parts is tedious. There's also a problem with the contract propositions you are given. I just started unlocking tier 3 of the tech tree (the 90 points requirement) and done a flyby of the Mun. The game thought I'm so good that travelling to Ike, Duna, Eve and Eeloo won't be a problem for me. Well, it will be a problem and now I've got these contracts and stuff like: "Test the Rockomax Band Adapter while flying over Kerbin at 26987,75 meters with the speed of 528,9923671 m/s on a Friday, between 9:17 am and 9:22 am with the Mun being in its third quarter". There's also the difficulty problem. You have to understand: "more difficult" doesn't equal "more grind". And, with a few small exceptions, that's what current settings are about. Sure you can set your science gain to be lower but in the end what does it change? Does it make launching rockets more challenging? No, it just makes you launch two rockets, instead of one, to get the science needed to unlock next node in the tech tree. Difficulty settings should look like the ones in proper simulator games, where you can change how the aerodynamic model works, how the craft behaves, what forces are affecting it, etc. That said, and what Frostiken said, this game is fun to play but needs a lot of improvement and saying it's Alpha, Beta or Potato Version doesn't change the fact.

Finally! Installing right now. BTW, some readme and better mod description would be nice.

True, however it doesn't mean we should get nothing. And that's what's happening right now. Look at ARM. Everyone got to play it before the actual players. We've had streams of it, YT videos, previews etc when we couldn't even get a release date. And no, it doesn't mean we should get a date months prior to the update but when they're streaming it they could say: "You'll be able to play it sometime next week." That's what the community managers and dev notes are for... Yes, it is. That's how it works. Maybe because we get information about AAA titles in development? We know what the next Call of Duty be about, in time we will know the multiplayer modes, weapons, etc. And because we are consumers we have the right to know what's going on with the game and to complain or ask questions. You mentioned triple A productions. Did you see the EA forums after launch of Battlefield 4? Or Bioware after people saw Mass Effect 3 ending? In early access you get to play an unfinished product in exchange for your money which is used to pay for the development process. It doesn't mean you get to decide how the game will look like, nor does it entitle you to receive detailed reports about development progress. You do deserve to be well informed however and to the truth, Squad acts like they don't give a damn about the community. I'll refer to Space Engineers once more. Everything Squad isn't doing is being done by Keen Software House. Yet they manage to deliver frequent updates, the game is doing great and there's no tragedy with anything. This is a matter of attitude, not what is possible and what is not.

You do realize this is a poor, not to mention the worst possible, excuse? As for the second part of your post. That's where the community managers come in. Their job is not only to close threads or watch out after the forums. They should be the voice of the developers. No one is expecting HarvesteR to take part in discussions because he's got more important things to do but some comments from Rowsdower or someone else from the community team would be much appreciated. Also there are the dev notes/diaries/whatever you want to call them. This is a way of communicating with fans. Right now it's mostly rubbish with no specific information. Or better said: reading the dev notes we know they're doing something but we have no idea what it is and when will it be finished.

I'm sorry, english is not my native language and I might have said one thing while I meant something a bit different. Generally I don't think Squad is obliged to anything, it's their business and they can run it however they want but it would be nice if they listened to the community and started communicating with it in a better way than now.

I agree with you. Listening to suggestions and sharing your thoughts is very important in not only game development but nearly all aspects of life. It doesn't mean that everyone should start posting their ideas in the suggestions forum nor does it mean Squad should implement everything people write there but having a look from time to time and taking some things into consideration is generally a good idea. Instead the only replies people get there are: It's on the "what not to suggest" list, go to hell. There's a mod for that. Some general good/bad words from other users that give nothing of value. A normal, or better said - standard, game development process has two parties: the developer who does all the work and the publisher who gives the money and tells the developer whad he'd like in the game. In case of indie games there's no publisher and that's why they're called "indie". However KSP is also an Early Access game meaning that people (us) gave their money to the developer trusting they can deliver a complete product in the near future. This makes us a form of publishers meaning we have the right to: complain have expectations have suggestions ask questions get the answers to these questions get reliable information about the status of the game Once again, Squad. This is your game. You decide how it looks like or what features will it have. However it is because of us, our trust and money that you can make it happen. A thing you (and many other indie devs) seem to forget too often.

I just love it when someone criticizes KSP and the fanboy police arrives in seconds with no arguments at all. Frankly speaking KSP is a bad game. Not in terms of idea or gameplay, but because of slow development and horrible communication. Right now the main line of communication between developers and player base are the devnotes which, for me, don't work at all. Most of the time they consist of statements like: "We are doing something right now, we won't tell you what or when it will happen" or "We were at someplace and we're tired but now we are preparing to go someplace else and we will be tired too". The best example is this forum, where mostly the only occasion to get some reaction from the team is "thread closed" when someone dares to post something from the dreaded "what not to suggest" list. As for the development, we know how it works. We know it takes time and resources. We know and understand it's an early access game but I think SQUAD lost it some time ago. The game's been in development for three or four years and yet most functionalities come from mods. Reentry effects and damage? There's a mod for that. Better atmospheric model? Try FAR. Basic flight and orbital data? Yeah, go and install Kerbal Engineer or MechJeb. Kerbal Alarm Clock, Crew Manifest, KAS, Infernal Robotics, Kethane... these should be stock. Instead we get the, in my opinion, completely unnecessary ARM Pack. It's great we've got asteroids now. Too bad all you can do is dock with them just the same as you can dock with another ship. Too bad you don't focus on what's important. The science system is completely broken. There's no fun in preforming the experiments, there's no sense of achievement. Just spamming the "get science" button. Another example? 64-bit. Unity announced a few months ago that the new version of their engine will have proper 64-bit support for Windows. Did anyone from SQUAD bother to tell us they're looking into it? Don't think so... Yes, but I don't understand how one person (or even a group of them), working for free, in their spare time can do a better job than a studio of professional developers. Of course it took a lot of time and work to make the best mods but eventually they got finished, they are compatible with other mods and once again - all of this done by someone who has a family, a job, school and does it for free. Every time there's talk about development of KSP I compare it to Space Engineers. It's also a complex, sandbox, space game made by a small studio. Yet they manage to release weekly updates. Granted, they have their own engine and the updates are smaller than the KSP ones but still they deliver what the players want, they are in constant contact with their fans, they listen to them and give them complete information about the status of the game and it's planned features. Why can't SQUAD do the same? As for the OP's question. Yes, I think it can kill a game. To be honest I don't believe we'll ever see a finished KSP. I give it two, maybe three years after which it'll get abandoned. This saddens me because it's a great game with great potential but the developer forgot what's it all about.

I think there should be some kind of auto close/delete mechjeb discussion threads as every single one is the same and brings nothing. To sum it up: 1. Yes, people use MJ from the beginning, deal with it 2. Noone cares if you play KSP with your hands tied to a chair using only your feet and a Playstation One driving wheel. 3. Some people like challenge, some don't. Again, deal with it. 4. You are entitled to your opinion, as is everyone on this forum. There are no good or bad opinions on MJ and any other mods. 5. It's a single player game. The way I play it doesn't affect your gameplay and vice versa.

Then please, make a video of it and post it here

I'm sure he would. The question is: would he crash it?

I just crash on THE moon OF Mün

... that would love to see Jebediah instead of Van Damme in this video?

Sure, most new players probably start stock and try doing everything by themselves but could we leave the decision whether to use MJ (or any other mod) or not to them? You believe they should learn the hard way. I believe they should do whatever they want. I really don't get you guys. KSP is just a game, it's meant to be fun, not a struggle (unless you find fun in struggle). It's not real life, there's no real challenge to it. Most people don't care you managed to build a space station using only stock parts or that you landed on Eve and returned without refuelling. Playing this game is the same as watching a TV series. Some people will watch one episode a week, while others will spend entire day watching two seasons one after another. As for making MechJeb stock there's actually one good reason for it: if SQUAD makes it possible to control missions from a command centre you'd need at least some kind of an autopilot to do the job. I'm not sure but I think I read somewhere that they want to implement this feautre in the game. Now to get back on the topic (is it a correct phrase?). MJ can be a good learning tool. I learned most things from youtube videos but it's more convenient to have this in-game. Proper placement of manouver nodes, Hohmann transfers, randezvous, inclination changes or proper launching (assuming you don't use FAR). Also it can be a great help for handicapped people. Not everyone can use their both hands or has a good hand-eye coordination.

Scott Manley made a video review of this mod. It's not a tutorial but he shows how things work. Also the Interstellar Wiki you found should have all the necessary information.

Because the things you care about are the most important things in this game. The developers are (or at least should) look at what the majority wants. If more people want MJ stock then it could be added into the game. If more people don't want it then it won't be added. It's interesting for YOU. That's exactly what many people here are saying: stop making us play the game the way YOU want it to be played. You like the challenges of manually doing everything, I prefer the challenges of real life like running my own company and games for me are a way to have easy fun. Both ways are correct. It would be easy not to use MJ should it become stock (I'm not saying it should). Can't say the same about FAR or Deadly Reentry. Look at the beginning of this reply and answer one question: What makes the things you care about more important then the things others care? The same goes with mods. Also, I never said I want MJ stock. I'm perfectly fine with it as a mod. You, sir, are so right.

I see it more like: People using MJ see those not using it as wanting to make them play the game THE ONLY PROPER WAY (which is theirs). Also from some comments (not only on this forum) I can see that people think not using MJ makes them an elite of some sort. That applies to all mods. For example people playing realism mods like RSS, Remote Tech or Deadly Reentry would leave the game because it would become too easy.

That's unlikely to happen. We have a great community that can pick up an abandoned project given it's popular enough. Like B9 mod for example? I know Bac9 didn't abandon it but the 0.23 compatibility was achieved by people from this forum, not him.* *DISCLAIMER: I have nothing against Bac9. He's doing a great job with his mod and we can all wait patiently for the next version.

I'm reading this and can't understand one thing: How can a mod for a single player sandbox game ruin anything for anyone? You play it the way YOU want. If you need an autopilot then go ahead. If not then... just don't use it. In both cases stop telling people how to play the game! Personally I use MechJeb and love it. Mostly because I don't have to do those repeatable actions by myself. Come on, how many inclination changes or Hohmann transfers can a man do without getting bored? The manouver planner is also great since the map view and manually setting manouver nodes simply suck. Also it's great for long lasting burns. I just punch "execute next node" and go for a smoke or do anything else. Of course MechJeb is not perfect. The docking autopilot wastes a lot of RCS fuel and landing is better done manually because you have more control over where the craft will touch down (this is essential when you build something on other planets or moons). Regardless, play the game however you want. Use as many mods as you like (and memory limitations allow ) and don't listen to people telling you what to do in KSP.

You're not too specific here, but I presume the wobbling occurs a few seconds after launch. At least that's what's been happening to my rockets. It's because you're accelerating too fast and there's too much pressure on your craft. Since I'm slowly venturing on the "I have no idea what I'm talking about" path I'll stop here and tell you, what helped me. I got MechJeb and used its "Limit acceleration to" option. I set it at 35 m/s^2 and the wobbling mostly stopped. Also, you may not be using fairings or stabilisers, your rockets are to high, not symmetric, there's no SAS on them, or you're using weak parts to separate your stages (like clampotrons). Oh, and remember: MOAR STRUTZZZZZ!

I know that now we have electric propelled wheels, however it doesn't stop people from straping boosters to their rovers I'll just try that for science. Yes, science and absolutely nothing else...

If it bothers you I think it is possible to edit some game files and set the amount of science you get from various activities. Not 100% sure about it though. Also, if you don't like how the science system works you can: 1. Get Science Redefined Mod. It changes some things about science, however I haven't tested it. 2. Play the game as you want. When I get my first orbit around Kerbin I don't go anywhere else, even though i could easily go to Mun. Then I fly a few more missions to Kerbin orbit and only after that I go to Mun or Minmus. I never make science runs around the whole Kerbol System because it just kills the joy of unlocking next nodes in the tech tree and testing the new stuff. That said, although going into high orbit around the sun gives you 1000 science and it is possible to do it in early stages of carreer mode, you don't have to do it.

Yeah, I figured I could go for a smoke or play with my guinea pigs while the engine pushes the craft The probe I tested it with wasn't that heavy, I think. It had a probe core, two XL Solar Panels, two small deployable radiators from KSP Interstellar and some batteries + light science equipment (no goo containers or science jrs) and of course one xenon container and the ion engine. Can't remember how much did it weight. The Near Future Propulsion Pack is a no go. I've got too many mods installed already and the game crashes when I install any other part packs. However I have Interstellar and it has plasma thrusters IIRC. Anyone tried them? How do they compare to stock ion engines? Wooks, I definately must try these ion powered rovers So if I use any other type of engine to escape Kerbin, ditch it and switch to ion it will be better? I mean, will they perform better when braking to establish an orbit around, say, Duna or Eve then when trying to escape Kerbin SOI?

OK, I'll probably just stick to standard rocket engines. I remember there was a mod with more powerful ion engines... Ion Engine Propultion Pack I think. Anyone knows if it's still supported? I didn't see it anywhere on the forums.

I'm not aware and frankly don't give a damn Just wanted to know what can you do with them that doesn't include long lasting burns.