Guys, I wanted to say thanks for all the hard work, pictures of your designs, and helpful information. Some great concepts in here. Im going to leave this tread open for the next few days if you guys have any more information to share. Also I wanted to post some of my designs that I have made for this subject. I never made it to the Mun to test it (mainly because I got a little to wasted that night to try lol) but after looking at a few of your designs, this thing might be a bit of over kill. This is my most common workhorse that I use to get things in orbit, great for lifter more then 50 tons.