Sacred Aardvark

Umm, am I out of date or what's with people using the additive system? That being fixed isn't in the changelog at least. :| Yeaah.... Doing guides really, really isn't my forté Still, you were brave enough to give a whirl at making sense of it, so I am curious to hear if you get things working.

It's that yo mama is visiting Jool and the combined the mass is so big, that it pulls the communications towards it. Maybe someone at planet poked it in the wrong data port accidentally, and it's not accepting input from them anymore. Nope, I have no idea. I have to suggest checking that all the connections you think are there actually are, but since you've probably done that already I don't really have anything. I was going to suggest that maybe it's going for least amount of hops and ignoring the distance, but it should have just as or even shorter path hopwise to the planet it's orbiting, so guess there goes that theory. Curiosity killed the Martian(no cats on mars, afaik), but what happens if you sever the link to Jool temporarily? Does the satellite start behaving or does it start pouting and stop communicating altogether?

Okay that post of mine looks horrible and confusing... Hopefully someone gets something out of it, if not... Sorry :/

Didn't turn out to be a step by step, more like step here and step there what with the launches an all skipped... Hopefuly you guys can work out the intermediary launch steps and stuff... (fun fact, this first paragraph of the post is actually the last to be written. Okay maybe "fun" fact was pushing it... another fact, it took over an hour to type this up trying to make sure i haven't messed anything up and rephrasing stuff, I've been dreading a browser crash for the last threee quarters and am feeling a bit loopy at this point so none of this might make any sense... ) Just to make sure there's no confusion, this assumes the Minmus-satellite to be inside Minmus-SOI, not in the pseudo-L5/L4 point, and at least one of the Geostationaries has LoS to KSC, and all have LoS to each other. Also, the Mun and Minmus are assumed to be on opposite sides of Kerbin, so we can ignore any possibility of Mun blocking our LoS. (or if you prefer, the Mun just blew up, it doesn't exists for the duration of this post, or whatever, I just don't want crap from someone because their comms don't work because of the Mun and it's my fault ) Also, this sort of assumes you have no other satellites, but that at the same time that you've managed to get these sats magically into the right positions and are able to connect to them, since you need to alter the targets. Attempting to LAUNCH a network following this "guide" (really isn't, I can't do guides) will probably not go well Oh, and when I mention a dish being targeted towards something, I am also assuming that dish to either be already activated or to be activated after the target has been set. Righto, think that's the ground rules or disclaimer covered I think, let's get started with the checklist. 0. All satellites are in the assumed places. (4sats in geo, suitably spaced. one sat inside minmus soi and so forth...) 1. Activate Com32 on all the Geo-sats (that's the 5Mm version, right?) for KSC and fellow Geo-sat connecting. 1½ Addenum: There should be an omni-line between one or two geo-sat and KSC depending on the alignment of the 4 geosats, and omni-line between all geos, if not, something is wonky and the next bit wont work, might as well stop here. 2. Target one DTS-M1 from All Geo-sats to Minmus. (technically with a 4-geo-pattern you'll only need 2 opposing sats to point to minmus for coverage, but I like redundancy) 3. Target one DTS-M1 from satellite orbiting Minmus to Kerbin. (if for some reason using KR-7 instead of DTS-M1, the cone should still be enough to cover geo-sats, but not 100% sure) 4. Have ... um... Scratch that, damn this was a short list. Maybe add a couple more satellites to Minmus? So you don't get blackouts due to the minmus-sat being on the wrong side. (do step 3. for all sats at Minmus expected to connect directly to Kerbin) Yay, you should now have active connection between Minmus-sat and KSC, via the geostationary-sats if KSC is behind the horizon, by simply using planetary targeting for long range communication. Feel free to change the cases on Minmus to Mun, except you can't, since the Mun doesn't exist! Anyway, once this post is done and the Mun pops back into existence, the same procedure should work for connecting the Mun as well. Also, I think the KR-7 has enough angle to cover the Kerbin geo-sats from Minmus, but not 100% sure, so if using those instead if DTS-M1, double check the cone display. Pretty sure the KR-7 doesn't have the cone to cover geo-sats from the Mun and any dishes bigger than that have such a tiny cones at this short ranges they can barely cover a fly. This is merely to connect via planetary targeting, obviously this wont work as a proper network for flying your probes due to the lack of communication with the active ship, however I've thrown some thoughts hastily together that could use this as a control network: Okay, and that concludes the reasonably well thought out portion of this post, the rest is me getting a bit bored and tired and running with it, there might be issues with functionality, read the rest with some additional thought, for the stuff above I tried to make sure everything is written and thought of correctly. So right, we have spare stuff and just connecting a sat isn't all that exiting, lets do a mission with our brand new network (assuming it works, no point trying this if things fell apart in steps 1-4...) 5. activate the Com32 on minmus-sat . (and if you want to be boring, point the spare dish at active vessel) 6. Launch a vessel with a 32 and a DTS-M1, probably a dipole for the ascent as well. 7. open the 32 once out of atmo, target the DTS towards Minmus or the Minmus-sat. 8. Perform a Minmus-injection 9. If you need a mid course correction, your minmus-sat (pointing a dish at kerbin) should pick up your ships M1 (pointed at Minmus, or directly at the sat), and help bounce the signal back to Kerbin.. Well, assuming you stay between Minmus and Kerbin, and the Minmus-sat isn't behind Minmus in it's orbit 10. Once you get close enough, the direction of the cone and location of your ship will probably not line up anymore and you will lose connection, but at that point you're hopefully getting close enough that you get picked up on the omni. (this is the bit that becomes boring if you just point a dish from minmus-sat to active vessel, and from active vessel to minmus-sat, or since we had spare dishes on the geo-sats, you could have pointed their dishes at active vessel, and the active vessel DTS towards kerbin, being even more boring ) 11. If you have a connection, decelerate for gods sake! If not, well... It's a nice view I guess, hope you don't crash. Okay, that's a lot of text, I might have mucked something up so I take no responsibility for inaccuracies, but I have tried my best to portray everything in the correct fashion, if something doesn't make sense, feel free to ask for clarification. I'm not particularly good at explaining stuff or teaching anything so I hope I've made some sense I lied at the top, it was the second to last thing to be written, this is the last one ending with this link that pretty much summarizes my feelings right now and I've just started noticing that my computer screen is wobbling at the edges and I think I'll take a break from staring at the computer screen now okay? Okay. Bye.

Then I don't know what to say. Except you earlier said it worked in the SOI, and I responded based on that. You mentioned them being on the poles, so I would ask about LoS, but if a direct target works, then that's not it and I'm drawing a blank. Now for something completely different: (not really completely, but anyway) Just to point out that there is nothing fundamentally broken with the cone targeting (and in reality it's probably more of a poor excuse to post pictures of my small network ) http://imgur.com/fFXd6lV As you can see the sat has dishes pointed at Mun and Kerbin (and one pointless one at mun relay, since it's in fact in omni range of it) And the connections work just fine: http://imgur.com/fncmzht Note that the KSO satellites have a link towards Mun, Minmus and active ship, and due to that, the active ship in the picture is the one landed on the Mun, so that the active ship targeting wont interfere with the results on testing the Mun orbiter connectivity (since the landed ship doesn't have LoS to KSO atm). As you can see the signal is bounced from the lander through the Mun L5-relay back to Mun orbit and from there towards Kerbin. And at the risk of sounding arrogant, I'm fairly confident there aren't massive issues with the cone targeting system that aren't originated by a faulty control actuator (that is to say, the user) because... http://imgur.com/GVB8RQ9 http://imgur.com/W46Gmpn As you can see, I do quite a lot of planetary targeting, I think like half my connections are planetary at least in one direction and several, like the Mun orbiter, are purely planetary and work as expected, so the cone system can't be too broken. (or I'm a wizard, which seems unlikely ) Oh, and no, I don't usually play with the dish cones visible, they're a mess (could we get unique colors per dish (atleast on the active ship), pretty please Cilph? *puppyeyes* ) I love my spinning web of orange lines though. (although I Love my 6x2 satellite omni network at 420km even more, but it's so tiny it doesn't really show in the big shots ) Speaking of which, think I'll go watch those spin around at a 1k*warp for a while (while planning my next Mun mission, For Moar Science! )

Yeah, there appears to be an issue where if a dish is pointing at a body, it will only connect to targets inside that body's SOI. Thus when you're targeting Minmus and your ship is still in Kerbin SOI approaching Minmus (or on the fake-L5 like my sat), the dish targeting Minmus will not pick it up. I vaguely referenced it in the post you quoted, but this has been a "known" issue for at least the last 20 pages, but I'm only now getting roundabout confirmation that it is in fact happening to others and isn't just my ****up, while Cilph hasn't yet said it to be Working as Intended and as such can start seriously considering making a bug report (without losing my first-born). If my **** is even in such a condition anymore that I can actually replicate it in a reasonable way, due to over-engineering around it for the last week... Suppose I could just start a new test-sandbox for it or something. Still, at least I think I've managed to shorten my description of the issue a bunch... "Dish targeting a Body, will not connect to any vessels outside that target Bodys SOI, even if they are within the Cone of the Dish." [edit to avoid double posting] I'm not sure, but I'm starting to be... Just wish someone would take notice of my posts on the matter and throw me a bone and give it a whirl on their end, so I'd know if it's just Me messing something up or if I need to make a bug report. :|

Yeah that's fun, I had a lovely time sorting out one of my sats, when turning it prograde had my semimajor axis too high, and turning it retrograde made the SMA drop below what it was supposed to be Eventually had a facepalm moment and just pointed it rad- and all was well

Is the one around Minmus actually inside Minmus SOI, or just near Minmus in Kerbins SOI, when you're pointing the dish at Minmus? Also, how the heck did you manage to reach the moon from a semi-sync orbit with just a 5Mm omni... The Mun is >10Mm Ooo... you probably had a 12h orbit instead of the 3 hour one I was thinking Are the antennas activated? In stock they start up automatically when sending science, in RT you need to manually activate and disable them (since some of them rip off in atmosphere)

All the three dishes I've used, the 88-88, DTS-M1 and KR-7 have worked, though haven't used the 88-88 for body targeting yet due to sticking to the Kerbin-system, and I've just verified that the KR-7 on my KSO is targeting the mun and connecting just fine to the satellite in Muns orbit (which has a DTS-M1 pointed at Kerbin). I've only found one possible bug* with the dishes, everything else has been eventually tracked down to my own mistakes, but since I didn't notice anybody confirming it to be happening in their game and it was a small issue to begin with, I'm assuming that the supposed bug was/is my error in targeting or another mod going loopy and not investigated it further. * If the cone of a Dish pointed at a Body contains a Second Body, the Dish will not connect to objects inside the SOI of the Second Body.

Yup, though the more the merrier, you probably will find use for them. All connections need to be two-way, i.e. a dish on the "receiver" needs to be pointed at the "sender" and vice versa, or via omnis.

You need a dish on the first sat to be pointed at the second satellite to have bidirectional communication. Or use omnis for short range communications. It works when controlling the second satellite because it's the active vessel, but when you swap out of it there aren't any dishes pointing towards the second sat any more.

Thinking through your network in my head it seems alright. Though based on my experience, put few more dishes on your satellites than you expect to be needing, you'll probably get use for them eventually. My first KSO's was a pair of satellites with 4 dishes and an omni, they've since got a pair of friends with 8 dishes and an omni, but when I start expanding my network onto other planets I'll probably need to launch one more pair of KSO's to act as a relay for the additional long range comms satellites.

Except it's worse, at least in my opinion, since you'll need a dish for every satellite or have to swap dish targets around in order to maintain communications. For example a network of 3 KSO + 3 munar will each need at least 3 dishes and one omni(or 2 more dishes) just to maintain connection to each other. That's 3 dishes per satellite to connect from KSO to the 3 munar satellites and and omni or 2 dishes to communicate with the other two KSO's. Whereas using a dish with a suitable cone, you'll need one dish and one omni (or two more dishes) per satellite to make the network. Anyway, direct vs cone is a preference thing in the end, more dishes just means more rtg/solars and thus more fuel to lift up, but it shouldn't affect your situation afaik unless their targeting is mucked up, and since you're absolutely sure everything is targeting the right targets, all I can suggest at this point is to make the bug report and hope Cilph has time to fix it sometime in the near future.

Targeted. As has been stated, physically pointing them isn't necessary. However if everything is correctly targeted with the correct satellites, it should work. Hence the assumption that despite your assurances of everything being as it should be, something might not be, since mistakes do happen to the best of us. Or you could have found a bug, at which point you should do a bug report to github. Incase you're unsure of what I meant by shots of your dish targeting setup, I meant these type of windows, openable via the rightmost button in the lower right corner in map view or tracking station: http://imgur.com/X7zgH8h

Could we get shots of your dish targeting setup on the KSO and Munar relays? Since based on the current information, the most likely explanation is that the dishes aren't pointing at the satellites they need to be pointing at, be it by accident or error. Yes there were a couple, some pages back.

"edit FileYouWantToCreate." (e.g. "edit takeoff." or "edit banana." or whatever) without the quotes to bring up the editor for that file, and if said filename doesn't exist, it will be created after you save your edit with F5. [edit] curse my slow fingers, Camacha was faster x)

FWIW, my opinions: 1. Schedulling burns that far into the future is a bit iffy due to the jitter in orbital paths, but I can see the benefit for dropping out of warp, even though I'd still use Kerbal Alarm Clock for that. Also, I was able to set up a 108h and above delay just fine, though I cba to check if 388800 seconds actually is 108 hours or that 393015s is 109h10m15s. (nor did I warp to that to see if it actually does anything after the countdown hits zero) 2. Sounds like a nice idea, I like it. 3. I'd support that. The RT warp abort is nice as a backup, but I use KAC for main warp cutting, especially on long warps because it doesn't overshoot. 4. The X button should stay "instant" for canceling i.e. ignoring any delay you've set up, but obeying signal lag, or the flight comp should have a big friendly panic button saying "stop everything right frelling now" that ignores manual delay. Having a button to send a delayed engine turn off wouldn't hurt though, but sending any % burn for 0s works alright. (just thought of something, you did mean the X-button in flight comp, not X-key on the keyboard, right? ) 5. If you mean the ships throttle, then yes it should and it does. Well, after a quick test it appears it releases the throttle to what it is manually set up to, and you can change the manual value while RT has locked the throttle, so don't lean on your shift key while RT is burning. If you mean the burn-timer-power-slider in the flight comp should reset to 0%, then no, it shouldn't, and I'm undecided on it reseting to 0% whenever I close the FC, but I can live with that. I'd like it if we could get the queue as a separate window. The flight comp and queue together are a bit wide to have open on my monitor, stacking them vertically would solve it for me but probably tick off someone else, so being able to move them separately could be good.

Can't speak for the current version, but at least back in 0.7 going above 100km without an antenna meant you couldn't access the archive. I can't remember how the antennae worked, I think the ranges got added together or multiplied by something or another based on the antenna and dish on the ship. Though now that I think about it I have vague memories of a bug in kOS being mentioned where "copy x from archive." works OOR but "switch to archive." doesn't. /shrug

Slight correction. First post of the thread, fairly easy to miss if you're not paying attention, I had to hunt for it a bit to find this quote: [edit] for those looking to change that, there was talk of it a page or two back.

Oh, yeah, d'oh.. I thought you meant getting that ability now, i.e. before we get the ability to affect individual parts outside of action groups, after getting that ability, it sounds sensible.

You have now closed your solar panels, opened an antenna, jettisoned an engine, shutdown a second engine and activated a third one, not to mention starting up windshield Re-frosting (why did we install this?) and the automatic re-entry hull polisher while disabling oxygen circulation. Okay, probably wont be that bad, but since the r-click menus have differing amounts of actions, especially with mods, you'd need to be fairly attentive when building your rocket not to have unexpected stuff happening, if you were to do say 2nd action down on all parts. Aren't most of the right click menu things mappable to action groups btw? I'm sure there are a few, I just can't think of a one that isn't... Except fuel transfers which aren't, but you'd need to target two tanks for it, so it probably wouldn't work by doing an action on all parts (repack chute just came to mind as something in r-click but not mappable to ag, but that requires an eva-kerbal doesn't it?)

Old hack re-purposed: "set target to ship:body." Last time it required an immediate action afterwards, this time it requires a slight delay in accessing target info [edit] for those who might have missed the earlier discussion, "set target to ship:body" will set your target to the body of whatever SOI you're in, which the game doesn't really like you doing and will clear your target in a fraction of a second. If your intent was to clear your target, no problem. (and if you're quick there's some unreliable trickery that can be made with the split second target)

Format 3h20m45s works for the delay, haven't tried beyond hours yet and like Firov said for burns add m/s to the end to do dV burns, if you don't use a suffix it defaults to seconds, so don't try to do a "845m/s" burn by typing "845" and then wondering for a bit why the heck you overshot and your stage tank is dry like I did

Is the dish at Kerbin pointing at the mothership/gilly or the active ship? If the latter, then it would show a connection when focused on the mother ship, but not have a connection when switching to the lander, since the Kerbin dish is now pointing at the lander and not the mother ship. Not sure about activating, but I definitely can't change their targets.

Good catch, the geosynchs probably have an antenna towards the active ship (which afaik doesn't use the cone(?) ), so when the active ship doesn't have an antenna capable of responding or isn't in LoS, there aren't any links between Mun and Kerbin. [edit] Unless ksc is visible. I think it looks like it's behind, but it's hard to tell with that red blob sometimes