Sensi

My understood definition of cost was that as the space craft landed intact, with 100% of its paid parts, the cost of the mission was only fuel and oxidizer as the parts were recovered in full. Do you mean that my mistake was not taking a screenshot showing that I clicked the "Recover vessel" button once landed? Or is it because the space craft didn't land on a runway or a launch pad? Anyway, It may be that your rules aren't complete enough and don't quite follow the suggestion of the "what are we trying to do?" section of the challenge submission guide. Instead of insinuating things like my supposed unfairness, you should clarify what you mean by recovery, costs and a few other things too, so what happens here won't hopefully happen again to other contestants. Whatever. I'm happy my SSTO operated as designed and brought the crew back safely to Kerbin near KSC. Dismiss my entry if you want, no big deal. Fly safe. Edit: as for the format of my previous post : it was meant to be humorous. I was at work and had a few problems with a client's website. Many http errors ensued. After that, I took a break and came here to see what was going on with my entry

/looking for the challenge rules explaining and enforcing "the cost of a less than 100% recovery" mandatory consideration and "landing right on the target". >Error 404, rules not found. /using workaround : decoupling a solar panel after reaching orbit and defining Kerbin as "the target". >Error 409, conflict. >Error 426, rules upgrade required. /using workaround : going for the "C ya!" "Now what?!" "Hands on!" bonuses. Using the same space craft and accidentally jettisoning all fuel after reaching orbit. Score = (-[Cost/Passengers]*[100-P]*[100-D])/100 000 = (-[5233/16]*[100-3]*[100-6]/100 000 = -29.821. >Error 417, expectation failed. Should not get a better score for a lesser achievement. The "D" parameter should be a penalty, not a bonus. >Error 426, rules upgrade required (D +3 ---> D -3). /scratching hea- >Error 429, too many requests. >EOT

My cheap and fully recoverable SSTO rocket : 16 crews. Expenses : 5233 credits for fuel and oxidizer. Hands on. Score : -(5233/16)*97/1000 = -31.725

IG, the Rapier engine is not equal to the Sabre engine (3200 Isp vs 4800 Isp). IRL, the Rapier engine is a 16-cylinder H pattern air-cooled aero engine built in 1929 As for the fuel, fair enough. Your challenge, your rules.

OP, may I ask you why Sabre engines aren't allowed? After all, they were built especially for Skylon... And as far as I know, although some hydrogen will be used to cool helium in the closed-cycle precooler, it will still be burned in the engines' combustors after cooling the helium loop. That means that 100% of the hydrogen will be used as fuel. So, why do you limit the LF quantity to 50%?

Very nice stock entry. But woah, 1109 parts! Is your rig equipped with a water cooled CPU ? Your score is Payload score : 138 t x 10 = 1380 points K-Team bonus : 50 points Efficiency bonus : from what I see in the album, your payload/dry mass ratio is around 130%, bravo : 100 points Total : 1530 points P.S. Your reentry seems to have been truly kerbalesque O7

Okay, here's my entry : the S2-8M SSTO Heavy Spaceplane. She's got 8 Sabres M for atmospheric flight and 8 LV-Ns for space operations. There is also a L2 Atlas engine between the front landing gears to help lift the nose up at takeoff when she's stuffed with really heavy payloads. I took her to a 100 km orbit with a 150 t payload, but didn't have enough fuel to go to Mün, so I downsized the payload to 126.44 t for this challenge (108 t in the cargo bay and 4x 4.61 t externally). The mission went as planned except a messed up reentry at the end. I missed KSC by 50 km, but had enough fuel to fly back without a sweat. This spaceplane will be the biggest I'll ever build with wing panels, because of the part count and flexing of the wings (even with a huge number of struts to stiffen them). I'll use Procedural Wings the day I want to put the KSC in orbit. Ship specifications --------------------- Mod used : B9 Aerospace Payload mass : 126.440 t Dry mass : 136.971 t Wet mass : 257.161 t Wet + payload mass : 383.601 t Payload / dry mass ratio : 92.31% Part count, w/o payload and MJ : 299 Sabres thrust : ~640 t LV-Ns thrust : 48 t The craft file (--> here <--) includes the payloads used in my submission, but not the MJ module. Ascent profile and action groups are in the spacecraft description. So, my score is Payload score : 126.44 t x 10 = 1264 points K-Team bonus : 50 points Versatility bonus : 50 points Efficiency bonus : 100 points Endurance bonus : 150 points Total : 1614 points Fly safe. Sensi.

Here comes the Kerrigan, an ordinary SSTO spaceplane totally not modified for this challenge. Yes, the LVT-30 nose cone and the L2 Atlas chimney are standard parts on all my spaceplanes Start/stop on Minmus' surface. Fastest speed achieved without disintegrating : 520 m/s. Fly safe. Sensi.

@Wanderfound : yes, you may use as many cargo bays as you want, or e.g. attach your payload(s) to docking ports externally. @Kasuha : to keep things simple, the payload parts should be submitted to rule 2. Updating rule 7 for clarification.

@LordFjord : We need a shared definition of what a 'medium sized SSTO cargoplane' is. I've built a medium size one (IMO) with 200 parts that can haul 54 tons in LKO and has a payload/dry mass ratio of 65%. But ok, I'll remove the parts count limit and allow the Procedural Wings mod so people playing on PCs/laptops with not much CPU power can hopefully still compete on an equal footing with big rigs. The K-Team and Versatility bonuses reward design realism. A crew of 4, i.e. a pilot, copilot and 2 mission/payload specialists, and monoprop tanks + verniers are the equivalent of 5 tons of payload, point wise. The efficiency bonus is a threshold, indeed. It rewards the cleverly built spacecraft, not the 500 tons monster hauling a 50 tons payload. Simple propulsion allows for lower engineering complexity, lower parts count and possibly lower dry weight, e.g. all Sabres M / no LV-Ns should be a good choice if you're not planning deliveries beyond LKO. The endurance bonus rewards the payload hauler with extended range capability. It's up to you to choose if you want to balance your spacecraft design (i.e. lower payload capacity) and get some bonus points, or go for a pure payload hauler. And yes, my entry's coming soon™, I just waited to see if this challenge would get some interest. @Wanderfound : Sorry, but using NRAP to simulate a dense payload is not allowed. I don't know this part mod, but lets avoid submissions with one cubic meter payloads weighing 100 tons. Keep it realisticish. @goduranus : Crew members in lawnchairs or in the payload/payload bay are not eligible for the K-Team bonus. Yes, your Mün flyby has to happen after you decouple the payload and before you land back at KSC. Docking to a space station has to happen in the same mission too.

So, looking at the challenge forum, it seems that we're right in the middle of SSTO Spaceplane Challenges season : we can currently take part to the fastest in orbit, cheapest, ionest, better, etc... SSTO spaceplane challenges. But what about the most muscular SSTO spaceplanes, the ones you've built to put heavy stuff in orbit? (*) Don't they deserve their own challenge ? If you think so, this challenge is for you! Goals - stuff a manned SSTO spaceplane with a payload - take off from KSC runway - go to a 100 km LKO - decouple the payload - deorbit and land back on KSC runway The heavier the payload, the better. Rules 1. Must look/take off/fly/land like a SSTO spaceplane, not like a rocket with wings and lawnchairs. You must take off and land horizontaly. Don't drop or lose any parts, except the payload when in orbit. 2. Parts mods allowed : B9 Aerospace, SP+ and Procedural Wings. 3. Other mods allowed : all mods which are not parts mods and which don't circumvent any of the rules. For example, you can use : MJ, KER, FAR, help mods (fuel balancer, docking, ...), utility mods (KAS, IR, ...) and cosmetic mods. If you're not sure about one of your mods, just ask. 4. Obviously : no cheats, debug menu or physics shenanigans of any kind. 5. Refueling your spaceplane is forbidden. Don't use the payload's ressources neither. 6. Air hogging is OK, but not part clipping. 7. You may have either one big payload or multiple smaller ones, not necessarily stowed in a single closed payload bay. You may attach your payload(s) to docking ports or decouplers. Payload parts are submitted to rule 2. Scoring 10 points per payload ton in orbit. There will be 2 leaderboards : FAR and stock aerodynamics. Bonuses - K-Team : have a crew of 4 kerbonauts (not in lawnchairs and not in the payload bay) : 50 points - Versatility : dock to a space station : 50 points - Efficiency : the payload weighs more than 50% of the spaceplane dry mass : 100 points - Simple Propulsion : use only one type of engine (e.g. a spaceplane with 8 Rapiers) : 100 points - Endurance : take a screenshot of Mün's hidden side from an altitude lower than 100 km (orbiting not required) before landing back at KSC : 150 points Submission guidelines - Take screenshots or a video to show your feats. There must be proofs of your spaceplane and payload conditions (Altitude, MET, masses, resources, parts count...) before take off, in orbit, payload decoupled, docked, behind Mün, in hangar with dry mass, landed, etc... - Avoid dark scenes whenever possible. - A link to your craft file would be great. Have fun ! (*) Yeah I know we should use rockets instead of SSTO spaceplanes whenever we want to put really heavy payloads in orbit Leaderboards Stock Aero 1. Sensi : 1614 points 2. O-Doc : 1530 points 3. FAR 1. 2. 3.

Heh, I'm not in a hurry to go anywhere, but you're right. I bet that the winner of this challenge will have a TWR of 0.01 or less.

Upping a bit the ante : 4503 m/s

This challenge is silly, I'm in ! The (physicsless) MJ module on the ammo allows for accurate ground distance measurement, as ground distance covered by the ammo is not accounted for if you're not focusing it. Look at the Flight Results window at the end of the video : only 646 m instead of 2456 m because I stayed focused on the chunker a long time... Heh, Darren your Kerbrossbow is awesome. Fly safe. Sensi.

Hi fellow Kerbonauts, I take this challenge on with my S2-5M SSTO spaceplane (a cool name, for sure). I've used the B9 Aerospace mod, because it's a great mod for spaceplanes and because whenever I build a spaceplane with stock parts only, it always ends up looking like a '80s Volvo : sturdy but inelegant (to say the least). She's powered by 5 Sabre M and 4 LV-N which give her plenty of thrust and endurance. The CoM is right in the middle of the payload bay, so the payload weight won't shift the CoM. The CoL is just behind the CoM for good maneuvrability and to avoid a nose or tail heavy ship. Keep it that way by transfering fuel between fuel tanks while in atmospheric flight (TaC Fuel Balancer is recommended). Action groups --------------- 1. Toggle Sabre engines 2. Switch Sabre engines mode (air / vac) 3. Toggle air intakes 0. Toggle LV-N engines Ascent profile (Kerbin, w/o payload) ---------------------------------------- 1. Takeoff : 100 m/s. 2. Ascent : 0 - 6 km @ 90°, 6 - 12 km @ 60°, 12 - 18 km @ 40°, 18 - 24 km @ 20°, 24 - 30 km @ 10°. 3. Keep altitude around 30 - 31 km until speed > 1700 m/s (surf). 4. Switch Sabres to vac mode, activate LV-Ns and pull to 30° angle. 5. When apoapsis > 60 km, shutdown Sabres and go prograde. 6. When apoapsis > 70 km, shutdown LV-Ns. 7. Wait for apoapsis, circularize. Ship specifications --------------------- Mod used : B9 Aerospace Parts count : 200 Dry / wet mass : 83 / 158 tons Payload capacity : 54 tons Crew capacity : 4 Sabres max thrust : ~400 tons LV-Ns max thrust : 24 tons Atm / vac dV : 54000 m/s / 4900 m/s Takeoff speed : 100 m/s Landing speed : 60 m/s Electric charge : 800 units + 4 RTG There are 201 parts in the ship presented in the album because of the Mechjeb module used to show telemetry. Mechjeb module, rover and merry-go-round are not included in craft file. Download craft file --> here <-- Fly safe. Sensi.

Thank you. A high wing parts count (no PWing), + the huge number of struts needed to stiffen it, + the payload parts count, + things like the structural panels hiding the ugly LV-Ns, etc... Well, Raven wrote that refueling is allowed for missions "whose target location is outside of Kerbin SOI" and "yes, the fuel depot can be in Kerbin orbit". Moreover, I wanted to build a nextgen shuttle that could SSTO and VTOL, and doesn't necessary need external rockets and fuel tanks to go to LKO. Indeed, I could have gone to Mün and Minmus without refueling thanks to an ascent stage, but I didn't use one because I aimed for the SSTO award. And if you go SSTO with a payload, you'd better have a refueling station waiting for you in LKO or you're not going anywhere. Yep, it works well, but you have to configure it for your different VTOL flight profiles : in a high gravity field (e.g. Kerbin, Laythe,...) , you need a more reactive throttle control than in low gravity (Mün, Minmus,...). This shuttle is a proof of concept with B9 S2 parts and Sabre engines. What mattered was flexibility, versatility and endurance, not payload mass.

Cool challenge. I take it on with my Laythe shuttle. It can SSTO to LKO with a payload < 30 tons. An ascent stage is needed for heavier stuff. It's also VTOL capable. Parts mods used : B9, IR, KAS. I've tried to use PWB fuel balancer but to no avail, so I had to balance fuel "manually" with TAC fuel balancer. Using Throttle Controlled Avionics also helped a lot flying the shuttle while in VTOL mode. It carried a 28 tons payload in its 12 m cargo bay. 9 t unloaded on Mün, 5 t on Minmus and 14 t on Laythe. Fly safe. Sensi.

Nicely done Finwen. A few tricks to avoid flexing : use KAS struts between your payloads and your coreship, disable all reaction wheels on your payloads and, if you have TAC fuel balancer installed, set the payloads' fuel tanks on 'OUT'. You'll refuel them once at destination. Nitro, could you explain some things about mission 7 : What are "8 lard solar arrays" ? Are RTGs forbidden on the satellites ? "We're also going to need a much larger dish than our standard sized dishes". Do you mean a dish built with structural panels ? What size ? ... "Head down to the surface with a lander and survey the LZ". There is no LZ shown on Eeloo's pic. Our choice ?

Mission 6 completed This mission went as planned... most of the time. There were some things I didn't expect, like - Playing darts with Laythe after being lied to by a maneuver node : a 37 km Pe becoming a frontal collision trajectory after time warping to Laythe's SOI. Fortunately, I had 10 mins to maneuver and miss the dartboard. - Tumbling down uncontrollably in Laythe's atmosphere with a heat shield still attached to the 1st spaceplane, whose docking port I forgot to assign a 'decouple' action group. Manual detaching and recovery happened at 1 km altitude. - Spending all RCS fuel of the circumnavigating spaceplane because I forgot to swith RCS off after takeoff and didn't notice until the tank was empty. Fortunately, there was some RCS fuel left in the rovers. - Designing the rovers with a flat body acting like a wing, and the COL not precisely aligned with the COM, making the rovers difficult to maneuver. - Restarting KSP made the KAS struts between the rovers and the coreship disappear, although the struts ends were still attached to them. Some flexing ensued. Anyway, Jebediah and his crew managed to get all things under control every time they went south, without any loss of lives, hardware or pride The VTOL tailsitter design I used for my spaceplanes comes from the Lockheed XFV “Salmonâ€Â. It was flying nicely, very maneuvrable, fast (1400 m/s @ 19 km altitude) and fuel thrifty. Scores Mission Completion: 1000 points Multi-drop: Deploy two rovers and two planes to complete the mission: 400 points VTOL Master: Use VTOL aircraft designs for your air craft: 250 points Circumnavigator: circumnavigate Laythe along the equator with your aircraft before heading back to orbit, 28,000 meter altitude limit: 250 points Eat your vegetables : 5 points I know what I need : 25 points Jet engines are for planes : 5 points Bring the gang along for the ride : 4 x 10 = 40 points Home Sweet Home : 4 x 5 = 20 points NASA knows best : 100 points Total : 2095 points Fly safe. Sensi.

The ascent stage was detached in Kerbin's shadow. I used time warp until the payload was in sun light before taking the last screenshot. The ascent stage had time to drift (not far) away. Now, take your medicine and go to bed

The first screenshot shows the vessel mass before takeoff in the vessel info window to the right of the navball. And there is no engine attached to the payload. On the final screenshot, you can see the pointy end to the left, and the docking port to the right, from which the ascent stage has been detached. Take a look at the screenshots again, I've put some red ink where you should look... That said, I could possibly have misunderstood what you've meant in your rules as I'm not blessed with an English tongue... oh well... Just disable crossfeed on your docking port before launch et voilà, no fuel leaks anymore and no need for a stack separator.

Here is my entry : Total mass : 1185 tons Payload mass : 243 tons 77 parts, one dual docking port (2.5m - 3.75m) Mods used : KW Rocketry and Mechjeb Scores : Money talks : -385 points Fuel isn't free : -295 points Size matters : +10 points Kerbals in space : +10 points Pride and profit : + 4860 points Total : 4200 points Fly safe. Sensi.

Rakaydos, your payload score looks a bit deflated, at 1/10 of its correct value. The rule is "Pride and Profit +10 points for every half-ton of payload to make it to orbit". Your total score should be 2095 points.

Mission 5 completed This was an easy going mission. All went as planned. The only tense moment was when landing the coreship, as it's as maneuvrable as a respectable class D asteroid. Fuel was not a problem as I barely had to fire the mainsails to land and get back in orbit as the TWR of the coreship was > 1 on nukes only. No "monstrous" SSTO were used anymore to get the payloads in orbit : all launches were done with a NASA Delta IV Heavy-like rocket (2 stages, no asparagus) capable of putting 100 tons in a 100 km orbit. Scores Mission completion : 500 points Land a rover and a rover garage : 200 points Land 2 rovers : 100 points Land a science module of at least 6 tons : 50 points Eat your vegetables : 5 points I know what I need : 25 points Jet engines are for planes : 5 points Bring the gang along for the ride : 2 x 10 = 20 points Home Sweet Home : 2 x 5 = 10 points NASA knows best : 100 points Total : 1015 points Fly safe. Sensi.

Thanks gchris. Indeed, the pics and comments in the Imgur album clearly show that my skycrane didn't "lift it all as one part". Although "monstrous", it couldn't do that Actually, there were 11 SSTO flights, one for each attachment (8 sats, 2 rovers and 1 lander), but the two flights carrying the rovers didn't qualify for "Master of aerodynamics - Use an SSTO to carry the attachment payloads into orbit to be docked with your core ship = +10 points per attachment (attachment mass must be 10 tons or greater)" as their weight was less then 10 tons.