Military Procurement: Strategic Bomber Concept

[Aanker]

When I flew it the first time I never intended to do any such thing, it just happened without my realizing it. In the screenshot I'm gearing up to reach maximum speed at 3000m altitude, so you bet it's been flying in exactly that direction for a while there when I made the screenshot. (I was actualy holding my finger over the F1 button to click as soon as 3000m was reached, the angle insures as high a speed as possible without taking ages to get there.) If you want I can post the craft file and you can try it yourself. Beware though, she becomes difficult at high altitude and speed without the payload.

I believe you, it was mostly just that I misunderstood your post at first!

@wossname, do you have a point tally, similar to other entrants? (You can check their calculations too) Also the part count is with bombs, so you just check the total count in the hangar.

Keep in mind the RAPIERs are not really good atmospheric engines, their thing is the whole SSTO stuff.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Aanker

[Wesreidau]

I accomplished this using all stock "essential" parts and NEAR, and may stockify my design fully over the weekend to claim a prize. However I mostly did it to do it, and I can only caution you that Krussia's sovereignty is now assured by the North Krussian K-36 Peacebreaker, and attacks against our soil will be met with twenty one-Kerboton bombs. Top speed over target 445 knots at 40,000 feet! Ground-rearmable and refuelable (with Infernal Robotics and KAS respectively). Defensive turrets! WAY more fuel that needed! Airshow maneuverability testing delayed due to Jeb calling in sick and claiming his e-mail is down! Looks like an actual 1950's bomber that you can't see because my DSL is down!

[wossname]

@wossname, do you have a point tally, similar to other entrants? (You can check their calculations too) Also the part count is with bombs, so you just check the total count in the hangar.

Keep in mind the RAPIERs are not really good atmospheric engines, their thing is the whole SSTO stuff.

No, I don't have a points tally yet because I didn't bother to take any screenshots to provide evidence. It's a nightmare to get off the ground so I'll try this mission again with a new design.

I used rapiers because they look really awesome, and at the end of the day there's no sense having a military budget and not getting cool looking engines

[gigaboom2]

I used rapiers because they look really awesome, and at the end of the day there's no sense having a military budget and not getting cool looking engines

Truer words have never been said.

[wossname]

Alright, my second attempt at a bomber design (entitled "Kilo-Bravo") was much better than my first.

Took lots of pictures this time. Will try to upload them shortly.

Here's a rundown of my design's performance...

- Meets all Basic Requirements

(Remark: "The Bomber must be able to drop this payload safely, without any damage being inflicted on the airframe. Collisions between bombs, such that parts of the payload are destroyed during drop, should be avoided." -- I can drop 5 of my 6 internally stored bombs safely, but number 5 tends to explode against the rear edge of the cargo bay due to "physics". No harm is done to the airframe of the bomber as per requirements. I beg the judges look upon me favourably in this regard. If this counts as a failure then I voluntarily disqualify my design.

6 bombs internally stored, no other ordnance. This is a minimalist approach!

Bonus points:

Swift payback: 155m/s at 3000m altitude = 15.5 points

Part maintenance: 120 parts = -2.4 points

Gentle giant: I'm not sure about how to measure this but I' used the navball to get damn close to 5 degrees as far as I can tell. I'll try to show this in the screenshots. Potentially +20 points

Engine maintenance: 4 turbojets = -16 points

Service ceiling: Hell yeah! this thing burns red at 12000 metres! +12 points

Shortly after beginning to get seriously hot while hauling ^$$ at 18000, the ship gets highly unstable and performs an unscheduled dissassembly. Spectacular.

Assuming my screenshots are acceptable, I calculate my score to be 29.1. Feeble! But I had fun getting there.

My time for the bombing mission on the eastern peninsula was 35 minutes, but I can't prove that since I went EVA to prove the ladders worked - thus losing my flight time. Meh, wasn't competitive anyway.

Will upload images when I work out how...

This challenge is hugely enjoyable. Highly challenging and very satisfying to complete, even if the end result isn't very competitive.

I wonder if one could argue that a low starting weight could add a few points. My starting weight was 41,852KG all up with bombs and fuel.

Edited March 20, 2015 by wossname

[Ens Gijs]

Ok, so it's not the most stable plane I've ever made - had to shift fuel around and get it out of a couple of flat spins on the way back to HQ but she made it.

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185 parts

7 bombs

2 crew

3 changes of underware for Mitbur

Edited March 21, 2015 by Ens Gijs

[Aanker]

Looking good, I'm starting from scratch again (attempt #2 below)

wossname, I would prefer it if you could reliably drop the 5th bomb. Have you tried the cut throttle and dive procedure suggested by a previous poster? It is OK if your bomber demands flight and operational instructions, that is after all to be expected of any airframe.

[Jakalth]

That bomber is looking pretty interesting there Aanker. Any chance of a second perspective of that bomber? Or you holding out on that until you've got it finalized?

@wossname. if you re-enter the aircraft after going EVA it will show the mission time again. That's the easiest way to do it. Also, look at how I added "bomb chutes" to the back end of the bomb bays on my bomber. You should be able to do something like that to prevent the rear bomb(s) from hanging and getting premature detonation. That is, if the trick mentioned by Gigaboom2 earlier does not work for your bomber. (cut throttle and dive)

Edited March 21, 2015 by Jakalth

[Aanker]

Thanks Jakalth, I don't think it will snatch the first place but it should get a respectable total score! It's just a preview though, I'm still testing it to see how far it can be pushed. More images to come.

[wossname]

I didn't try diving actually, I played with the throttle a bit but I couldn't find the sweet spot.

I'lll try it now, thanks for the advice

I might try designing a challenge of my own next. These challenges have completely re-newed my interest in KSP again. I was getting stuck for ideas and was losing interest (Kod forbid!).

[hoioh]

And if that doesn't work you can always do it EjectoSeato style and put a couple separators on the rearmost bombs to propel them out of the hold with force. If it works with Kerbals, it'll work with bombs, right?

[Aanker]

Preview #2 of the upcoming benchmark

[gigaboom2]

The Flying Narwhal MkII

This ship is 239.5 tons and 585 pieces of pure power. Used 15 basic jet engines because turbojets were too weak at runway. This Narwhal caries 56 bombs and has a functional horn. Mission Completed in 1 hour and 57 seconds.

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Points:

More BOOM: 50 x 12 = 600

Swift Payback: 0.01 x 135 = 13.5

Engine Maintenance: 15 x -2 = -30

Parts Maintenance: 585 x -0.2 = -11.7

TOTAL: 553.8

Edited March 22, 2015 by gigaboom2

[Aanker]

Wow. I wonder if it's possible to carry 100 bombs. Although that would clearly be nearing the edge of KSP physics maybe?

Either way,

"- The Bomber must be able to take off and land, both with and without payload, on the conventional KSP runway without the assistance of rockets."

You don't have to redo the entire mission but I would like to see a payload-free landing just to make sure the craft is balanced and fully controllable (accurately landing on runway) even without its load.

[gigaboom2]

Sorry, Here You Go

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I dropped bombs and drained most of the fuel.

Also, in the next update, they are adding bigger wings. Bigger Wings=Less Wings=Less Lag=Bigger Planes=MOAR BOMBS ​If this challenge is still going after the 1.0 update, you should make separate scoreboards.

[Jakalth]

Wow. I wonder if it's possible to carry 100 bombs. Although that would clearly be nearing the edge of KSP physics maybe?

Don't be too sure on this. If you think unconventionally, it is possible to lift the 220+ Tons of bombs(100 bombs + bomb hangers) up to height using a craft slightly smaller then my Khermite. It would only require getting creative with VTOL technology. Drawback is... I don't know if the craft could have enough endurance to reach the peninsula and still be able to fly...

@gigaboom2 The Flying Narwhal MKII has a beauty all its own.

Only question I have is, can it actually fly level at or above 12,000m, with full bomb load, for the service ceiling achievement? None of the pics show it much higher then 6,200m. Just asking.

also, if you hang a pair of large bombs(orange tank bombs for example) in the outer cargo bays, instead of it's 56 standard payload bombs, you should be able to score the dynamic demonstration of force achievement.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Jakalth

[juzeris]

Ladies and gentlemen, we're presenting to you a brand new sparkling marvel of technology, featuring a sleek delta flying wing design, extreme speeds, massive payloads and more! Straight from the rag-tag bunch of engineers who brought you the Jumborator 5U:

Gaoro Baltro 8!

Here are a couple of photos from our showcase:

For those of you already convinced, get a seat for a test flight right here! (that's the craft download link)

For those of you who want to see how well it performs on the charts - here goes, please stop us and ask if you need evidence for the data points provided:

Featuring three cargo compartments capable of carrying a standard complement of 60 FLT400 bombs, or anything else you feel like shipping halfway around the world. (60-6)*12=648

Capable of 143 m/s cruise at the standard altitude of 3 km, but you will not want to go that low. (143*0.1)=14.3

Featuring a complement of 42 turbojet engines and our standard issue KR-2L rocket booster. (42*-4)=-168

Made out of 728 exclusive parts, all locally sourced. (728*-0.02)=-14.56

Rated to withstand forces in excess of 10G, but you'll have to be very reckless to reach anything close to that. 10

Features a slanted cockpit so you can watch right where you're flying. (Not sure if this qualifies for gentle giant - the cockpit is sloped downwards by 10 degrees, so when it flies level at 3km alt the cockpit looks straight ahead, but that's probably not in the spirit of the achievement. I made it that way just because it looked better ) 0

Capable of rapid delivery of the classic Orange Smasher bombs with minimal notice. 10

Is compatible with our place-anywhere SSTO buggy (kids version). 20

Can fly to space if it strikes your fancy, and even stay there. 20

Can fly up to 12 km and stay at that height, or 20 km, or 3 km, or any other amount of km. 15

Can be refueled on the runway, just be careful don't tip it over. 10

Bombs can also be reloaded on the runway, if, for some reason, you want the hassle. 20

Subject to various operational synergies (can both refuel and rearm). 5

Is of a very fashionable delta shaped flying wing design. 2

Can almost land on water. 0

Careless placement may damage surfaces, such as military grade airport runways. 0

Can reach Mach 5 (1702 m/s) while in atmospheric cruise in the orbital direction fully loaded! 0

Can reach Mach 6 (2042 m/s!) in atmospheric cruise if counter-orbital and unloaded! 0

Instructions on how to get in and out are in the rear compartment, passenger side.

Total: 591.74

Also, please enjoy footage of our bombing run to the peninsula to the east.

We managed to fly so fast we went right over our target site, had to dive too steeply, obviously lost control, and then stylishly recovered. Twice. Also we managed to do all that and more in under 18 minutes (mission time 00:17:59).

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Edited March 22, 2015 by juzeris
Added some photos and boarding link

[wossname]

I'm having considerable difficulty with making my new plane look beautiful. Aanker seems to have no difficulty (see the very first post in this thread). And the Narwhal is another great example.

Is there a tutorial anywhere that discusses the methods used for attaching parts at seemingly arbitrary locations and angles? I'm having a hard time getting my aesthetic parts to stay put.

My latest bomber needs to look beautiful, and at the moment it looks like a tornado in a scrap yard.

[gigaboom2]

Only question I have is, can it actually fly level at or above 12,000m, with full bomb load, for the service ceiling achievement? None of the pics show it much higher then 6,200m. Just asking.

also, if you hang a pair of large bombs(orange tank bombs for example) in the outer cargo bays, instead of it's 56 standard payload bombs, you should be able to score the dynamic demonstration of force achievement.

I forgot, it could only fly at 12 km with no bombs, I will change that.

My ship has a turning radius of about 40 km, and I don't feel like flying it that far out for another 10 points. I'm good with second place.

[wossname]

http://imgur.com/a/nnurJ <--how do you embed this??

Peninsular mission: 00:42:00

Parts: 106 (-2.12pts)

4 basic jets only (-8pts)

Swift payback: 192.8m/s *0.1 = 19.2

Service ceiling: YES +15pts

Such stealth, very sneak: YES (based loosely on the B2 bomber) +2pts

Total score: 26points

Photos provided show crew entering and leaving the jet from ground level, achieving level flight at 3000 and 12000metres, releasing all 6 payload sucessfully and landing with and without payload.

It's surprisingly stable for a flying wing design and is very solid in flight, but SAS has a hard time holding the nose up at high altitude, so some manual intervention is needed to get the level flight achievement at 12000.

Works beautifully at low altitude, hits 250metres altitude before it reaches the end of the KSC runway at takeoff, doing 140m/s without breaking a sweat.

Was tricky to build and get all the staging right (many kabooms before i figured out I had the engines staging after the payload decouplers!).

By the way, this plane is slightly less than 32000kg mass in the SPH. Any chance of a "lightest plane to complete the peninsula run" award?

Edited March 22, 2015 by wossname

[Jakalth]

Fair enough gigaboom2, that's a lot of flying for just the 10 points. Besides you've still crushed my score. Only juzeris has a higher score now.

Wossname, that's an elegant bomber you've made. Nice. Feather weight bonus?

Hmmm, looking at the competition now, I might just have to make the hundred bomb lifter I've been pondering. Still not sure if I can get it to fly all the way too the peninsula, let alone all the way back... Might have to try anyways, even if it does not qualify for this challenge.

[juzeris]

A perversion upon all that is good and noble.

-Donrod Kerman

I'd rather stare at the maw of the abyss than that thing.

-Jonbles Kerman

An abject affront to the dignity of engineers everywhere.

-Patski Kerman

Abominations such as this should not exist, much less fly.

-Matlorf Kerman

How much?

-Jebediah Kerman

The plans for this contraption were mysteriously found on the desk of a sales manager, who immediately realized the attractiveness of bulk rate bombing. There will always be people who want to bomb someone cheaply and do not mind that the packaging is just corrugated cardboard and duct tape. No engineer (or anyone else) came forward to admit actually designing this, but the engineers are eyeing the local janitorial staff suspiciously.

Fortunately, the management was unable to enter this thing into the competition, as the requirements clearly state "two pilots", and Jeb was the only one willing to fly it.

Though, as one sale rep put it, looking at it, it is not clearly obvious that it would be impossible to refuel and rearm it on the runway, launch SSTOs from it, fly at above 12 km altitude, destroy VAB or achieve 10G turns. The sale rep was unable to comment on actually how many FLT400 bombs the contraption can carry, but he heard someone put the amount at "a lot", "we got a bulk discount" and "160". The number of engines is put at 9 times 5, however many that is, and the number of parts is "less than one thousand, and maybe less than eight hundred".

Reporter Soiree Kerman managed to get hands on these photos from a test flight:

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---------------------------------

Seriously though, I don't want to enter this thing into the competition, it's way way too ugly. Made it just to test how far can it go in response to the 100 bombs challenge.

Awesome looking craft everyone and thanks for the challenge, Aanker, looking at everyone's entries I wish my natural instinct wasn't "let's just slap on some wings somewhere". Still a long way to go.

Also, for dropped bombs hitting the airframe, the problem is the aircraft maintaining speed while the bombs are slowed down by the atmosphere, and the aircraft rams them. Personally, I solve it by having all the engines bound to an action group (1 and 2 in this craft) and turning them off (and letting the speed drop a bit) while bombing, cutting throttle does not work so well because jets take a while to spin down (action groups go around this somehow).

[gigaboom2]

I wish that I could make a ship like that. But My "Common Sense" and "Computer Processing Speed" just won't let me.Good Job!

P.S. You should at least count up the points to see how much it would have scored.

[Jakalth]

And here I was going to make the 100 bomb vtol. Now that's kinda pointless. darn....

Cutting thrust lets the engines slow down. action groups cuts the fuel directly. no fuel = no thrust at all. either that or fairy dust.

[juzeris]

Well, I might get to making a more reasonable high payload airplane, however due to part count limitations it will probably have to have less bombs than this monster, 780 parts was really pushing it and it really had NO bells and whistles. So the competition is still on.

Though right now I'm planning to try to make something VTOL. Of all my attempts I have made only one airplane with jet-based take-off which successfully transitioned to horizontal flight (not counting jet-engine rockets), and that one didn't land successfully. So not sure how that'll go...

EDIT: Also, considering there are no VTOL designs yet, I'd think it might need some extra incentives, and it wouldn't even affect any of the previous entries. For example something like "Advanced Flashy Technology: +17/+7 (instead of +12/+5) extra bomb bonus if a VTOL bomber can drop all of its payload while hovering mid-air on jet engines (less than 8 m/s surface speed before drop?)."

This would amount to a bonus of +40% and would be in line with +30 points for normal VTOL on the first 6 bombs, though, if that feels too much, half that would probably make sense as well. I think a scaling bonus would make sense, as it's one of the two bonus objectives which require additional equipment in the design of the aircraft, thus essentially presenting a multiplier to the bomb weight. (The other being space bomber.)

I'm not sure if it should make an allowance for non-winged craft, but those probably wouldn't be "bombers".

Edited March 23, 2015 by juzeris