From Duna to Mars - Realism Challenge

[DBowman]

Just for the lols here is RSS Mars with it's radius set to Duna's 320km. I had been thinking 'MiniMars' - Stock KSP but with Duna re-skinned using RSS HiRez Mars, the height map points would be 10x closer together giving the illusion of 'more detail'.

of course the heights would have to be scaled also.

Also I forgot to scale the mass - so I've got mars Mass in Duna radius and a mainsail on a 180 tank cannot lift itself

[DBowman]

Just a note for an RSS tweak to try:

I think this post is showing how to add some 'noise' to the way the renderers fill in the gaps between points in the height map - to stop MArs looking like an origami project.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55145-0-90-Real-Solar-System-v8-6-1-Mar-30?p=1858701&viewfull=1#post1858701

[vosechu]

Just for the lols here is RSS Mars with it's radius set to Duna's 320km. I had been thinking 'MiniMars' - Stock KSP but with Duna re-skinned using RSS HiRez Mars, the height map points would be 10x closer together giving the illusion of 'more detail'.

http://i.imgur.com/fYzaHMjh.png

of course the heights would have to be scaled also.

Also I forgot to scale the mass - so I've got mars Mass in Duna radius and a mainsail on a 180 tank cannot lift itself

This would be super fun to play on

I'm glad I saved my 0.90 folder so I can keep hacking on this, but we may also have to come together again after some of the mods get working again.

Or.... Maybe we should hack for a bit on the stock version! Yeah! That's what I'm going to do tonight

Btw, updated the first post and officially changed the title of the thread. I love your primary score work DBowman!

-- Update --

Found out that I still had a stock hardmode save from 0.90. Trimmed it down and grabbed just the vessels to make a new savegame (which I need to do for the RO version I realize now)

https://github.com/vosechu/ksp-mars-ro-challenge/releases/tag/stock-hardmode

The savefile only contains the earth satellite network, but that'll at least get people running if they're doing RT2 for the first time.

Edited April 30, 2015 by vosechu

[DBowman]

I think we should open up the challenge / make it clear it's open for vanilla 1.0 - cause that's where heaps of people will be right now waiting on mods etc. Including putting Duna in the name of the challenge, e.g. "Stock Duna through Mars Realism Challenge"

I've not yet played with it, but it sounds like 1.0 now overlaps some of the Hardmode mods. I think we should make a Stock 1.0 option/division based on yr stock hardmode but 'optionalizing' as many mods as possible to reduce the 'uptake' hurdle as far as possible. Here is my proposal and queries:

Stock 1.0 Option:

Mandatory:

Recommended:

• TAC Life Support (TACLS) - Actually very easy to use. [fall back to DPOMAC scheme which is heavier and less convenient that TACLS. Maybe mandatory? Mandatory but you can get a note from your doctor?]
  
• Ambient Light Adjustment - It's nice for everyone to appreciate your work.
  
• RealChutes - Simple - make chutes MORE useful, MORE flexible, and LESS destructive. [i've not used it but that's how it sounds]
  
• TweakScale - Just handy, and realistic - if NASA needs the tank a bit larger it makes it so.
  
• FASA - Beautiful useful NASA replicas - put a Lunar Module on Duna! ( see Capricorn One http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077294/ ) [i've not used but sounds like this]
  
• SCANSat - You want to eye-ball the slope? stick to the flattest part of the planet? go ahead! or suss out a unique landing site.
  

Suggested:

Maybe? is it better (enough) than Stock 1.0

• Deadly Reentry [it's better? more parts? harder? more realistic?]
  
• Kerbal Joint Reinforcement [ Is this only really necessary to cope with larger scale vehicles required by RO? ]
  

Waiting on 1.0 mod stuff to settle down:

• EngineIgniter (repack) (Currently broken in 1.0)
  
• Remote Tech (RT2) (Currently broken in 1.0)
  
• Ferram Aerospace Research (FAR) (Currently broken in 1.0)
  
• Better Bouyancy (Currently broken in 1.0)
  
• RealFuels (Currently broken in 1.0)
  
• Procedural Parts (Currently broken in 1.0)
  
• Bobcat's Soviet Engine Pack (Currently broken in 1.0)
  

For continuity and 'something to go on with now' I'd suggest using the same launcher schedule / rules as DPOMAC. Also if we values a vanilla 1.0 we could use the DPOMAC LS dynamic - it's heavier and more anoying to figure than TACLS - so people would be better of going with the mod.

What do you all think?

[immelman]

I think we should open up the challenge / make it clear it's open for vanilla 1.0 - cause that's where heaps of people will be right now waiting on mods etc. Including putting Duna in the name of the challenge, e.g. "Stock Duna through Mars Realism Challenge"

I've not yet played with it, but it sounds like 1.0 now overlaps some of the Hardmode mods. I think we should make a Stock 1.0 option/division based on yr stock hardmode but 'optionalizing' as many mods as possible to reduce the 'uptake' hurdle as far as possible. Here is my proposal and queries:

Stock 1.0 Option:

Mandatory:

Recommended:

• TAC Life Support (TACLS) - Actually very easy to use. [fall back to DPOMAC scheme which is heavier and less convenient that TACLS. Maybe mandatory? Mandatory but you can get a note from your doctor?]
  
• Ambient Light Adjustment - It's nice for everyone to appreciate your work.
  
• RealChutes - Simple - make chutes MORE useful, MORE flexible, and LESS destructive. [i've not used it but that's how it sounds]
  
• TweakScale - Just handy, and realistic - if NASA needs the tank a bit larger it makes it so.
  
• FASA - Beautiful useful NASA replicas - put a Lunar Module on Duna! ( see Capricorn One http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077294/ ) [i've not used but sounds like this]
  
• SCANSat - You want to eye-ball the slope? stick to the flattest part of the planet? go ahead! or suss out a unique landing site.
  

Suggested:

Maybe? is it better (enough) than Stock 1.0

• Deadly Reentry [it's better? more parts? harder? more realistic?]
  
• Kerbal Joint Reinforcement [ Is this only really necessary to cope with larger scale vehicles required by RO? ]
  

Waiting on 1.0 mod stuff to settle down:

• EngineIgniter (repack) (Currently broken in 1.0)
  
• Remote Tech (RT2) (Currently broken in 1.0)
  
• Ferram Aerospace Research (FAR) (Currently broken in 1.0)
  
• Better Bouyancy (Currently broken in 1.0)
  
• RealFuels (Currently broken in 1.0)
  
• Procedural Parts (Currently broken in 1.0)
  
• Bobcat's Soviet Engine Pack (Currently broken in 1.0)
  

For continuity and 'something to go on with now' I'd suggest using the same launcher schedule / rules as DPOMAC. Also if we values a vanilla 1.0 we could use the DPOMAC LS dynamic - it's heavier and more anoying to figure than TACLS - so people would be better of going with the mod.

What do you all think?

For "Hard Mode" my thoughts:

Deadly Reentry should be harder, since in stock you can reenter just using an engine bell, unprotected ships should explode

Kerbal joint reinforcement really helps with wobbly rocket syndrome, recommended.

FAR allows lifting body aerodynamics, very useful for a Duna landing and for Kerbin reentry with Deadly reentry.

Universal storage, this has configs for TAC life support as well as config entries for Methane if you want to try a Zubrin type mission.

[vosechu]

I think we should open up the challenge / make it clear it's open for vanilla 1.0 - cause that's where heaps of people will be right now waiting on mods etc. Including putting Duna in the name of the challenge, e.g. "Stock Duna through Mars Realism Challenge"

I've not yet played with it, but it sounds like 1.0 now overlaps some of the Hardmode mods. I think we should make a Stock 1.0 option/division based on yr stock hardmode but 'optionalizing' as many mods as possible to reduce the 'uptake' hurdle as far as possible. Here is my proposal and queries:

Should we do away with the Stock vs Stock-hardmode? It is possible that 1.0 is real enough to capture that feeling of actually doing the thing. On the other hand, I learned a ton from RT2 and TACLS. On the other hand, we do have to draw a line in the sand somewhere lest we end up doing a whole bunch of automated kOS scripts like the reddit thread is currently hung on.

One of the core values I've seen is "Easy to get into the challenge". So maybe we just have Stock vs RO. I'm not sure if RT2 and TACLS are adding enough to make a different category. On the other hand, we haven't seen what DRE, FAR, RealFuels, and EngineIgniter are going to be like.

I also want to reevaluate Karbonite and see if it's something we can use or not.

For continuity and 'something to go on with now' I'd suggest using the same launcher schedule / rules as DPOMAC. Also if we values a vanilla 1.0 we could use the DPOMAC LS dynamic - it's heavier and more anoying to figure than TACLS - so people would be better of going with the mod.

What do you all think?

I think that makes sense. The DRA talks about doing a 110t payload launch every 30 days, so that could also be a version. One thing I don't know is how the payload changes for Stock/Stock-hardmode. We don't need nearly as much fuel to get to Duna, so the payload would have to be significantly less. Thoughts?

- - - Updated - - -

For "Hard Mode" my thoughts:

Deadly Reentry should be harder, since in stock you can reenter just using an engine bell, unprotected ships should explode

Kerbal joint reinforcement really helps with wobbly rocket syndrome, recommended.

FAR allows lifting body aerodynamics, very useful for a Duna landing and for Kerbin reentry with Deadly reentry.

Universal storage, this has configs for TAC life support as well as config entries for Methane if you want to try a Zubrin type mission.

My hope is that DRE/FAR are still important mods for realism. It's true that they're not as critical to the realism anymore, but maybe something else will pop up like weather systems.

I'm fine adding Universal Storage, it's a nice little mod. Should it be recommended or required?

[vosechu]

Quick update on mods: DRE and FAR are reworking with sarbian on a new MM-like mod that controls things like heat and aero. NathanKell has mentioned that RO is going to take a couple weeks, but it sounds like he might be aiming for a coordinated release of things like realfuels, rss, et al.

Most of the other mods are available in some capacity. Scansat and rt2 work okay for me, but have dev versions on the way out.

[vosechu]

Got some work done on my all stock 110t lifter today; it's so much easier to make pretty craft in 1.0!

I still need to sort out one tiny explosion then I'll post pics and the craft file. Very exciting to make progress!

I've also been looking into how to pack rovers and I don't feel any closer to understanding how to do it well. Either my rovers land on their back or I can't get them out. I can undock mid flight but that seems gross for some reason. Risky at the very least.

[vosechu]

I've officially made my lifter for the stock version and I think it's pretty amazing.

Downloads here: https://github.com/vosechu/ksp-mars-ro-challenge/blob/b00c7d6d2dfea9f60aacb5794a873998f31985a5/stock/ships/vosechu/Mars%20HHLV.craft.zip

I think that it deserves a bronze or a silver. I've put a lot of effort into making it easily reusable, beautiful, and fully stock (despite my leanings ).

Here's some glamor shots of it in action:

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Works best if you tilt to about 80-82 degrees as you pass 100m/s velocity, stabilize, and then turn off SAS. No adjustments needed at all.

RCS is a little rough with a payload this large, so it would be a pretty good idea to attach a little RCS module to the front of payloads. Maybe I can do that for the next version

[immelman]

Since Realism Overhaul will not be updated for a while, I'm going to fly my Mars mission in 0.9

Anyway here is my Saturn C8 craft file if its is any use to you. Procedural fairings and FASA should be the only prerequisites:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gbomoesc63m2sot/Saturn%20C8.craft?dl=0

First step: Launching a Skylab using a Saturn 5 and then an Apollo on a Saturn 1B to dock (going to use this to fuel up the transfer stages).

With it being such a long time before the transfer window the trickiest thing is going to get the inclination right.

[vosechu]

Since Realism Overhaul will not be updated for a while, I'm going to fly my Mars mission in 0.9

Anyway here is my Saturn C8 craft file if its is any use to you. Procedural fairings and FASA should be the only prerequisites:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gbomoesc63m2sot/Saturn%20C8.craft?dl=0

First step: Launching a Skylab using a Saturn 5 and then an Apollo on a Saturn 1B to dock (going to use this to fuel up the transfer stages).

With it being such a long time before the transfer window the trickiest thing is going to get the inclination right.

Beautiful! I'll add it to the github repo and to the front page tonight. I'm excited to try these out! What should I put down for this entry? Bronze, silver, or gold? Seems pretty fancy so I think it's at least a silver, but if you think it's gold worthy I'd be happy to have our first gold entry on the front page

- - - Updated - - -

Update the top post with immelman's entry, but also added a table of contents and moved the primary scoring rules below the current scores. I don't know if that's the right way, but I was feeling like the primary scoring was hiding the awesome work that's starting to come up.

What do you all think?