The KR-2L "Rhino" seems to be nerfed too much

[Columbia]

In 1.0, many engines were nerfed of their thrust, which I found normal, except when I found that the KR-2L "Rhino" engine seems to be way weaker than before - 1000 KN compared to 0.90's 2500 kn performance. Now the Atmosphere-vacuum change might be realistic, but I feel like it's too much - the engine is practically weaker than a Mainsail, which is smaller by far, and tons of designs became obsolete and impossible to fly because of this.

Am I the only one who feels like this is too much? If this is impossible, at least change the other stats - The weight is still 8.5 tons, and more.

What do you guys think of this?

[SargeRho]

The idea behind the Rhino seems to be that it's an advanced/cryogenic engine. It has 50s greater Isp than the Mainsail - which from the top of my head I think is around 12-15% - but less thrust. It's an upper stage engine, it's built for efficiency, not TWR. I think it's just right the way it is.

[Crzyrndm]

Rhino is a high thrust upper stage engine, not a first stage lifter. What it could do previously for stupid levels of efficiency was just wrong...

[Hydrazine_Soup]

I would prefer it to be an RS-68 or F1 Equivalent instead of the crap it is now lel

[Eric S]

I would prefer it to be an RS-68 or F1 Equivalent instead of the crap it is now lel

In 1.0, all engines got tuned to be lifter engines or vacuum engines. The Rhino is the largest vacuum tuned engine by a considerable margin, so if it didn't get tuned for vacuum use, we'd have to push asteroids around with poodles or use a lower ISP engine.

We've already got the Mainsail if you want a lifter engine. More thrust, better atmospheric ISP, less mass. We've got the S3 KS-25x43.5 if you want more oomph.

[Chris_2]

the engine is practically weaker than a Mainsail, which is smaller by far

This is realistic. In reality, the size of a rocket engine is more related to ISP, not so much to thrust. To get more ISP you need a bigger nozzle (larger expansion ratio). For example: The Vinci upper stage engine (high-ISP, only 180kN) of the Ariane 5 is over 4 meter in length, while the first stage Vulcain engine (over 1300kN) is only 3 meter in length.

I would prefer it to be an RS-68 or F1 Equivalent instead of the crap it is now lel

The mainsail is your RS-68 equivalent. The KS-25 performs the role of the F1 engine (even if it's modelled as a stack of SSME's). The KR-2L is the equivalent of the J-2 engine of the Saturn rocket.

[Columbia]

Well then, at least have an alternative.

Many people used it on their replicas and all that. Why would you do that just for the sake of being a good engine? You can just increase the price or something.

[Chris_2]

Throw away your old saves and craft files and start over in 1.0... Many people also used lots of LV-N's and 48-7S's on their designs, as these were also overpowered. Finally a balance pass has happened. Price is not a good balancing mechanism as I play only sandbox.

[MKI]

As said above, forget the old. You can't compare its old uses with its new ones.

Your better off to compare this Engine with a Skipper or poddle.

One of the most interesting aspects is the 4 degree gimbal. Which means big upper stages can be handled much more easily. It also is probably the closest thing we are going to get for a MK3 space shuttle engine.

I think the key thing to think about here is the usages of the two largest engines in the game.

The KS-25 cluster is the MAIN ENGINE. For the most part you will use to half way to orbit (as is planned for the SLS system in real life) The KR-2L is there to finish up with the higher orbit stuff which will be more useful with a more efficient engine.

Now you want an engine that is more of a first stage engine that has a lot of thrust. Well that's the KS-25, its strong enough to fill the void for and more or less carry anything all the way up to orbit if your upper stage is small enough.

Now if you don't want to pay for that much thrust, then theres the Mainsale and redesign of the lower stage.

I like what they did with the SLS engines, as they use to be pretty much be all end all. Now they fill their niche as still the most powerful engines, but in their own respects rather than being more or less OP.

[a2soup]

Just chiming in to support keeping the KR-2L the way it is. This was a change I had hoped for since 0.23.5, when it was introduced (and was almost strictly better than the mainsail).

I'm very pleased with the changes to every engine (now that the nuke overheating has been lowered), but changing the KR-2L and 48-7S was especially important. I could hardly have hoped for a better balance pass