[Stock 1.0.2] Early Career 5-Flight Challenge

[Maolagin]

Okay, there's been some debate back and forth about whether the new career mode is too easy or too grindy. Let's put it to a challenge!

So here you are with a fledgling space program. Pity nobody's heard of you or allocated a budget, though. Sure, you could work diligently and spend weeks sending out explorer after explorer to boot up your program, but why wait? How far can you get in EXACTLY FIVE FLIGHTS?

As your starting scenario, select "Hard Mode" and set starting funds, science, and reputation to zero. Obviously feel free to prototype your missions before flying for real -- whether this means trying first in sandbox or turning Revert back on doesn't matter to me. Your game should be 1.0.2 Stock. Informational mods are fine in the VAB, but turn 'em off in flight. Otherwise MJ and friends negate too much of the downside of the Tier-0 Tracking Station.

Other than that, the only rules are, get as far as you can with your five flights. If you roll it out on the Launchpad/Runway and hit Spacebar, it counts, even if it's just a "Test on the launchpad" contract. To make things clearer in your screenshots or video, name your craft like I do below, "Number One" through "Number Five" or something similar.

EDIT: RULES CLARIFICATIONS

* Yes you can revert or use quicksaves if you want.

* You get to deploy five crafts from the VAB/SPH, period. A pod that rolls around the KSC still counts as one of your "flights."

SCORING: The interesting variable is how far you got, not how rich you got. So scoring will be by experience. Refer to the Experience table here: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Experience

Your score will be the highest experience award any of your Kerbals would get over the course of your missions. So if you got a Kerbal to Kerbin orbit, you get 2 points. If you planted a flag on Duna, you get 12.5 points, even if they haven't gotten the XP yet because the return craft would be Number Six.

Since the first contestant to submit a finished campaign also nearly maxed out this method of scoring, you also get a tie-breaker score. Ties are broken by total XP accomplishments for your entire program -- that is, add up the highest XP accomplishments per SOI just like the game does, but total it as if your entire space program was executed by a single Kerbal. So if Jeb went to Laythe but Val also orbited Mun at some point, your headline score is 20 points (Flag on Laythe), and your tie-breaker score is 40 points (Kerbin orbit + Mun orbit + Kerbol orbit + Jool orbit + Laythe flag).

And in the interest of not relying TOO heavily on the "Jeb can come home on flight 6" rule, you get a 20% bonus to the tie-breaker score if all Kerbonauts are recovered back on Kerbin after five flights.

Here's my take, to give you the idea. As you see, I manage to get set up to farm almost unlimited funds, but only make it to Mun orbit. So only 3 points for me:

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Good luck!

LEADERBOARD:

1. RocketPropelledGiraffe -- Laythe flag = 20 points, tie-breaker score = 40 points (Kerbin->Jool, Laythe flag, Mun orbit, no return bonus)

2. ...

3. ...

Edited May 29, 2015 by Maolagin
add tie-breaker scoring

[Kystery]

I like the idea of this. I'm quite tempted to try it myself, but that means making sure any mods and modded savegames are gone from a copy of KSP.

See you in 10 years -gets to deleting files-

[Moesly_Armlis]

Tried this and had some fun. At times it was a blast.

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I will continue updating the imgur album and post when finished.

Did you indicate that reverting does not matter? I could redo this attempt if no reverting does matter.

Also concerning the first vessel roll out. No space bar was pressed. So is that right on target with the rules? If so then you might need to revise the rule to include the first engine ignition must be with space bar. For example I can right click and start engine and that is without space bar. My reason for this is that I have a launchpad contract for both the terrier and swivel for which is on a vessel designed for a mun encounter. I need to shut down the engines after staging and return to see Gene and obtain the contract for break the atmosphere and orbit kerbin.

Edited May 12, 2015 by MoeslyArmlis

[Maolagin]

Tried this and had some fun. At times it was a blast.

http://imgur.com/a/WsVGh

I will continue updating the imgur album and post when finished.

Did you indicate that reverting does not matter? I could redo this attempt if no reverting does matter.

Also concerning the first vessel roll out. No space bar was pressed. So is that right on target with the rules? If so then you might need to revise the rule to include the first engine ignition must be with space bar. For example I can right click and start engine and that is without space bar. My reason for this is that I have a launchpad contract for both the terrier and swivel for which is on a vessel designed for a mun encounter. I need to shut down the engines after staging and return to see Gene and obtain the contract for break the atmosphere and orbit kerbin.

Hah, nice work blowing up the VAB on your first launch! Yes, I'm fine with reverting, this challenge is about clever ship design and game mechanic exploitation. I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of your flights!

However, the spirit of the rule was supposed to be that you get to deploy five craft, period, so I would count your pod-roller as craft #1. I'll see if I can edit the top post to make that clearer.

[Moesly_Armlis]

I would count your pod-roller as craft #1.

The pod roller and the launch was to gather science and I wasn't up for a stroll around the KSC. Why not throw in some starting science so there won't be a reason to visit the KSC at all. Will now need to include in the first launch are dropping science pod rollers.

Edited May 13, 2015 by MoeslyArmlis

[ghpstage]

Will have a go at this on the weekend.

If I can get out of the Kerbin SOI I will be aiming for Gilly as theres a good chance of a return mission. I don't want to leave Bob on Duna

[Maolagin]

Will have a go at this on the weekend.

If I can get out of the Kerbin SOI I will be aiming for Gilly as theres a good chance of a return mission. I don't want to leave Bob on Duna

I'm looking forward to seeing if you can do it!

[RocketPropelledGiraffe]

I like the idea of this challenge, since you have to get to the limits of what is possible with the very early technology.

I am trying to go for an interplanetary run, but I do not have a lot of time atm. I only managed the first two flights so far...

Next target: Mun!

Finally did it. Placed Val on Laythe in four launches, I am told her return is planned some time in the future...

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I got to the point where I did not expect a fifth launch to make a difference. It seems a lot more money and science is needed to get the upgrades to put together a Laythe return mission or to be able to get to Eeloo or Moho.

Edited May 22, 2015 by RocketPropelledGiraffe

[Maolagin]

I like the idea of this challenge, since you have to get to the limits of what is possible with the very early technology.

I am trying to go for an interplanetary run, but I do not have a lot of time atm. I only managed the first two flights so far...

Next target: Mun!

Finally did it. Placed Val on Laythe in four launches, I am told her return is planned some time in the future...

http://imgur.com/a/kyuCM

I got to the point where I did not expect a fifth launch to make a difference. It seems a lot more money and science is needed to get the upgrades to put together a Laythe return mission or to be able to get to Eeloo or Moho.

Wow, very impressive! You are the first to finish, and according to the table planting a flag on Laythe nets you 20 XP points!

Since the only way to beat that score would be to visit Eeloo, I may have to think of a way to do tiebreakers ... you're dangerously close to maxing out my scoring system here!

[ToneStack]

Wow, very impressive! You are the first to finish, and according to the table planting a flag on Laythe nets you 20 XP points!

Since the only way to beat that score would be to visit Eeloo, I may have to think of a way to do tiebreakers ... you're dangerously close to maxing out my scoring system here!

It looks like an exciting challenge, I will invest some time over the weekend in it...

Though, i looked at the experience table and... I think the experience is additive across all the S.O.I.'s you visit, though only 1 achievement per SOI is counted.

So, the person who went to Jool & Laythe would get at least points for; Kerbin Orbit + Kerbol Orbit + Jool Orbit + Laythe plant flag

=> 2 + 6 + 9 + 20 = 37 points

I bet though they also visited the Mun and/or Minmus for more points.

Some tie breakers might be;

1. How did the 2nd best kerbol for the trip score for exp points

2. What was the best score after only 4 flights => 3 flights => 2 flights

or, if it is only the best single SOI that is scored.

3. How many total SOI's did they visit during the 5 flights?

Looking forward to doing the challenge later this weekend

Tone

[SkyRender]

So would this result in more points if you sent multiple Kerbals out and thus earned more experience across the lot of them in the process? Or does only the most experienced Kerbal count?

[ToneStack]

So would this result in more points if you sent multiple Kerbals out and thus earned more experience across the lot of them in the process? Or does only the most experienced Kerbal count?

The way the contest was written, it is only the most experienced kerbal that determines your point value.

I wonder though, if the 1st vessel made consists of just the command pod, and did not fulfill the launch the first vessel contract, would it still count as a vessel for this contest?

Edited May 23, 2015 by ToneStack

[RocketPropelledGiraffe]

Some tie breakers might be;

1. How did the 2nd best kerbol for the trip score for exp points

2. What was the best score after only 4 flights => 3 flights => 2 flights

or, if it is only the best single SOI that is scored.

3. How many total SOI's did they visit during the 5 flights?

Looking forward to doing the challenge later this weekend

Tone

I think some tie breakers are propably a good idea. Maybe the least number of unlocked parts or used parts in the best launch is another idea - and obiously bonus points for return missions.

Your other thought sounds like a nice idea for a separate challenge actually: How many experience points can you get for a single Kerbal in the first career flights?

[LittleBlueGaming]

Going to have to give this a try. I haven't been anywhere outside of the Kerbin system yet, so that will be fun.

[LittleBlueGaming]

Launch 1

I wanted to get all 5 contracts, ended up getting 6. Set the thrust limiter on all the boosters to 0.3, still hit heavy atmospheric drag at the end but I don't think it would have mattered if I turned it down more.

The only thing I can think of to improve that flight would be building it so I could get down on the ground, and grinding science all over the KSC for hours and hours...

Launch 2

Figured I could fly 3 science bays up past 70km... success. Had a little trouble keeping the heat-shield pointed down during re-entry, and I don't even know if it's necessary(I haven't lost anything to re-entry yet).

I probably could have stuck on 2 more fuel tanks, flown north, gotten the next record distance, and landed in a new biome instead of the ocean again.

Launch 3

Not sure if it was the right choice, but I decided to do a science grind. My hope was to unlock enough tech to land on Minmus for launch 4. Ended up banking 100 science.

I could have tooled around and picked up more biomes outside the KSC, but didn't feel like it. Too bad, I was 4 science short of unlocking another Tier 4 node.

Launch 4 (Pending)

I've tried a few different things, but haven't figured out how to maximize the potential for this mission yet. Fly with Jeb and multiple experiments, or forego a bunch of science and just do a few goo samples, crew reports, and EVA reports? Take multiple experiments, or figure out how to take Bob along as well? Go for a landing or two on Minmus?

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[g.koster]

ok this challenge is pure grinding, as theoretically you can get any money and science from part testing in orbital around Kerbin.

hereby I claim that it possible that with craft five you can visit all planets and moons in one go if your computer allows, have all sciences and all upgrades, no matter what difficulty.

[Maolagin]

Okay, I was offline for most of the weekend but I'm back now. Let's see what's up...

It looks like an exciting challenge, I will invest some time over the weekend in it...

Though, i looked at the experience table and... I think the experience is additive across all the S.O.I.'s you visit, though only 1 achievement per SOI is counted.

So, the person who went to Jool & Laythe would get at least points for; Kerbin Orbit + Kerbol Orbit + Jool Orbit + Laythe plant flag

=> 2 + 6 + 9 + 20 = 37 points

I bet though they also visited the Mun and/or Minmus for more points.

Some tie breakers might be;

1. How did the 2nd best kerbol for the trip score for exp points

2. What was the best score after only 4 flights => 3 flights => 2 flights

or, if it is only the best single SOI that is scored.

3. How many total SOI's did they visit during the 5 flights?

I think some tie breakers are propably a good idea. Maybe the least number of unlocked parts or used parts in the best launch is another idea - and obiously bonus points for return missions.

It's true that the game counts XP additively as you describe, but it also doesn't award XP until the Kerbonaut is recovered back on Kerbin. So in the spirit of rewarding "furthest progress" above all, here's what I propose:

Basic score remains as in the original rules -- highest single XP achievement for any Kerbal in your space program.

After that, ties are broken by additive XP accomplishments for your entire program -- that is, add up the highest XP accomplishments per SOI just like the game does, but total it as if your entire space program was executed by a single Kerbal. So if Jeb went to Laythe but Val also orbited Mun at some point, your headline score is 20 points, and your tie-breaker score is 37 + 3 = 40 points.

And in the interest of not relying TOO heavily on the "Jeb can come home on flight 6" rule, let's give a 20% bonus to the tie-breaker score if all Kerbonauts are recovered back on Kerbin after five flights.

Let me know if any of that seems horribly broken to you guys, otherwise I'll update the rules with this next time I edit the top post.

ok this challenge is pure grinding, as theoretically you can get any money and science from part testing in orbital around Kerbin.

hereby I claim that it possible that with craft five you can visit all planets and moons in one go if your computer allows, have all sciences and all upgrades, no matter what difficulty.

That would certainly be tedious! I'm also not sure if it's true, because what I'm observing is that as you complete contracts the game gradually ups the difficulty, probably going by your reputation. So if you're looking to unlock the whole tech tree by spamming "transmit science from Kerbin orbit" contracts, after the first couple of times you're only going to get a couple of science points, and I am seriously skeptical that the game even will give you that contract a thousand times without you doing something in the meantime to lose rep points.

- - - Updated - - -

Launch 1

I wanted to get all 5 contracts, ended up getting 6. Set the thrust limiter on all the boosters to 0.3, still hit heavy atmospheric drag at the end but I don't think it would have mattered if I turned it down more.

The only thing I can think of to improve that flight would be building it so I could get down on the ground, and grinding science all over the KSC for hours and hours...

Just a note, timewarp 4x and holding shift to run is your friend. You can run all over the KSC in just a few minutes that way. It's still minimal payoff, as those surface EVA reports are only worth a point or so each, but if that's difference between unlocking two or three nodes for Launch 2 it's worth it.

Launch 2

Figured I could fly 3 science bays up past 70km... success. Had a little trouble keeping the heat-shield pointed down during re-entry, and I don't even know if it's necessary(I haven't lost anything to re-entry yet).

I probably could have stuck on 2 more fuel tanks, flown north, gotten the next record distance, and landed in a new biome instead of the ocean again.

Launch 3

Not sure if it was the right choice, but I decided to do a science grind. My hope was to unlock enough tech to land on Minmus for launch 4. Ended up banking 100 science.

I could have tooled around and picked up more biomes outside the KSC, but didn't feel like it. Too bad, I was 4 science short of unlocking another Tier 4 node.

Launch 4 (Pending)

I've tried a few different things, but haven't figured out how to maximize the potential for this mission yet. Fly with Jeb and multiple experiments, or forego a bunch of science and just do a few goo samples, crew reports, and EVA reports? Take multiple experiments, or figure out how to take Bob along as well? Go for a landing or two on Minmus?

http://imgur.com/a/QANQN

Nice start! Looking forward to seeing how flights 4 and 5 turn out!

If I can make a request to everyone, in your screenshots please include a shot of the KSC before you start, to confirm to us all that you're starting with 0-0-0 funds/science/rep. If you want to screenshot the difficulty settings dialog that's great too, but I'm willing to take you at your word that you correctly set the difficulty. Also, let us know which buildings you upgrade when, as that's also an important element of the strategy to this.

[Jonboy]

ok this challenge is pure grinding, as theoretically you can get any money and science from part testing in orbital around Kerbin.

hereby I claim that it possible that with craft five you can visit all planets and moons in one go if your computer allows, have all sciences and all upgrades, no matter what difficulty.

Maybe you're right, maybe you aren't. If you want, why don't you try it for yourself and let us know how it goes? If not, no need to complain.

Since the goal is to be as efficient as possible, this challenge is going to be a little tedious and "gamey", but that doesn't make it invalid.

[RocketPropelledGiraffe]

I had good fun playing around with this challenge and doing launches, which were clearly aimed at getting as much as possible, but still felt "organic" like you would play in a normal career game. I confess I omitted the fourth "natural" launch - landing on Minmus - because it would not have gotten me any further.

If it is fun for someone else to grind "Science from Kerbin Orbit" for 50 hours, I don't think anyone will stop him.

@LittleBlueGaming:

If you want to maximize your science in the fourth launch, try to work with EVA reports from both Mun andMinmus orbit. I am not sure if you can have enough delta-v to make multiple hops on Minmus if you bring along a Science Jr. and Bob. You propably cannot collect surface samples, which yield the most science from landing - the R&D Upgrade is expensive...

[LittleBlueGaming]

@LittleBlueGaming:

If you want to maximize your science in the fourth launch, try to work with EVA reports from both Mun andMinmus orbit. I am not sure if you can have enough delta-v to make multiple hops on Minmus if you bring along a Science Jr. and Bob. You propably cannot collect surface samples, which yield the most science from landing - the R&D Upgrade is expensive...

Thanks for the advice. I painted myself into a corner WRT funds, so I'm going to need to redo launch 3 and try something else.

[ToneStack]

Forgive me, but for some reason my attempt to start the game out with 0 funds did not take and the game loaded with 10,000 funds , the science and rep did indeed load at zero

I have looked in the screenshots, and I have never started or ended a launch with fewer than 10,000 funds, so have a question?

Is it ok to effectively say that I completed the same challenge as the others, as the game does not add interest to the money like a bank account or bond?

or would the additional 10,000 at some point in the game might post additional/significantly different contracts

than it would with the 10,000 fund correction reduction?

I did not catch this until after my 3rd launch a couple hours into my journey,

so know that my actual remaining funds are always 10,000 less than it's showing in all my screenshots.

The only mod I installed is Kerbal Engineer to help calculate delta V's in the VAB.

Also, I did not know at the time that my screenshots though showing periapsis and apoapsis tags when i hit F1 to take it,

did not show in the actual jpg images . It has been a learning curve for me figuring out how screenshots work.

I don't know how to correct those ones

a brief description of my journey below

VVVVVVVVVV

Flight one

Walking science (DV 0)

Got total of 35 science, no launch first vessel contract fulfillment but got quite a bit of funds from science data, but counted as requested

Flight two (DV 2,279)

Up Through Atmosphere into space

Flight Three (DV S6 1415 + S3 1383 + S2 3244 = 6041)

Jeb Kerman up to Kerbin Orbit (using all but about half of stage 2 fuel) => Mun Orbit =>

and back on inclined kerbin orbit for science collection or crew/eva reports totaling 130.2 science

Flight Four (DV S5 1586 + S4 1411 + S2 3453 = 6430)

Jeb and Bob Kerman to Kerbin Orbit (leaving 310 of 540 of Stage 2 fuel left) => Mun Orbit (leaving 125 of 540 fuel left) => Minmus transfer (98.65 fuel left)

=> Bob eva's down to Minmus surface and plants a flag with only 1.59 of 5 of eva propellant remaining =>

Jeb goes home with a lot of stored science in material bay studies of Kerbin, Mun & Minmus Totaling 345.3 science

Jeb and Bob Kerman into Kerbin orbit,

Flight Five

Not yet done

{Once i figure out how to attach the screenshot files, I will be reediting this post to put them in there... It looks like I don't have permission to Post Attachments right now, I don't know why . Can a moderator help me here please?}

[Maolagin]

Forgive me, but for some reason my attempt to start the game out with 0 funds did not take and the game loaded with 10,000 funds , the science and rep did indeed load at zero

I have looked in the screenshots, and I have never started or ended a launch with fewer than 10,000 funds, so have a question?

Is it ok to effectively say that I completed the same challenge as the others, as the game does not add interest to the money like a bank account or bond?

As long as your screenshots show that you never went below 10,000 funds, then I suppose I'll allow it.

Once i figure out how to attach the screenshot files, I will be reediting this post to put them in there... It looks like I don't have permission to Post Attachments right now, I don't know why . Can a moderator help me here please?

Images are not hosted on the forum itself, you have to use an outside service. The most common thing to do around here is go to imgur.com and create a gallery. Then you can use the imgur tag to embed the gallery in a post.

[ToneStack]

As long as your screenshots show that you never went below 10,000 funds, then I suppose I'll allow it.

Images are not hosted on the forum itself, you have to use an outside service. The most common thing to do around here is go to imgur.com and create a gallery. Then you can use the imgur tag to embed the gallery in a post.

Ok, I will try out imgur.com to get my gallery out later this week... Am not sure if I spend more time in KSP or more time in narrating the screenshots and such, But am having a whole lot of fun learning how the screenshot system, science system, funds system, experience system, contract system works and such all from this greatly crafted challenge, thank you

Tone Stack

Edited May 27, 2015 by ToneStack
correct the autocorrected word imager

[John FX]

ok this challenge is pure grinding, as theoretically you can get any money and science from part testing in orbital around Kerbin.

hereby I claim that it possible that with craft five you can visit all planets and moons in one go if your computer allows, have all sciences and all upgrades, no matter what difficulty.

I will be very interested to see your submission as you plainly have so much skill that challenges like this are easily won.

I expect you to obtain first place when you do submit. I also expect nothing less than a visit to every moon and planet.

The only thing reasonable to do with claims (as far as challenges go) is to back them up with a submission that proves your claim while staying within the rules...

[MarvinKitFox]

Ok, this will be easy. Or not.

Short-Short summary..

Mission1:

Local hopper. Get eva reports for all ksp biomes, grassland, tundra, shore.

Fly to 5000m.

Sci: 50.2 Funds: 50000

Mission2:

Polar Orbit Observer.

Polar orbit. High orbit. Crew reports, eva reports all kerbin biomes. No science instruments, thanx, too heavy!

do 5 * surface observe contracts.

do 3 * science-in-orbit contracts.

land on south pole.

Sci income: 65

funds: 120k. upgraded mission control, training.

Mission3:

Mun polar, Minmus Polar+landing, return.

Upgrade the launchpad to allow heavier ships.

Build the best 30-part ship I can. Includes enough delta-v to go to Mun low orbit, then to Minmus low orbit, then fly back for recovery.

Maybe, *maybe* enough delta-v for minmus landing. The ship has a margin of only 120m/s, and **BOB** is going to be piloting!

Yes, I am loading a scientist, so I can Do endless cycles of science on the Goo Cannister and the Material Science bay.

.

Launch, fine.

Go to Mun, mostly fine.

Mun capture, not so fine. Without the use of a decent tracking system, the interface LIES to me and predicts an orbit, but when I get to the Apogee i "fall off" Mun's SOI.

No problem, I get recaptured less than 2 years later.

Enter 11800m circular polar orbit.

Get all wanted sciend, from all biomes.

Also get 3 contracts for observations and Temperature sensing.

Do all the "above xxx m" reports.

drop orbit to 8500m (using mere vapors of fuel), do all the "below xxx m" reports.

Go to mission control, pick up another 3 similar contracts.

and repeat

and repeat.

and repeat!

Ok, I have now exceeded 2 000 000 funds, and 130 science just from recycling mun orbital contracts!

This is where I quit, sorry. Given enough patience, I could gather infinite science, and about 13000*infinite funds doing this.

Album , first two and a half missions:

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Edited May 30, 2015 by MarvinKitFox
Update, mission 3