Nasa reward to the best mars sustainable idea

[AngelLestat]

To the ksp members that are always talking about mars and the best way to achieve it, here you have your oportunity to make a real contribution.

https://www.innocentive.com/ar/challenge/9933746

The award for the best idea is 15000U$S.

It's a shame that is not for Venus clouds

PD: They have also this other challenge (passive and active radiation shielding) that is kinda related to the mars challenge.

https://www.innocentive.com/ar/challenge/9933638

Edited May 11, 2015 by AngelLestat

[WH40krules]

Hey guys, maybe we could try and do the challenge? It probably would be a good exercise in designing and planning a mission.

Objectives of the Challenge:

How does humanity facilitate, enable, and incentivize the establishment of a second home on Mars?

How do we become and maintain Earth independence while living away from Earth?

How do we shape NASA’s human exploration program to minimize what we must bring with us and maximize the value and utility of what we bring, and augment it with what is already there?

What specific capabilities and operations need to be developed, and how can specific natural resources on Mars be used to achieve true Earth independence?

What should be put in place so that this initial foothold can thrive, instead of just surviving?

How do can we make sure that the sustainable systems/capabilities that we choose to implement will really provide the best holistic approach to Earth independence?

What do you need to bring with you?

What will be established once you get there?

How does it operate and how can it be tested now?

Why is it sustainable? Is there recycle, reuse? How long will it last?

How is it intertwined with other systems/capabilities?

How will it be maintained?

Edited May 13, 2015 by WH40krules

[FishInferno]

Hey guys, maybe we could try and do the challenge? It probably would be a good exercise in designing and planning a mission.

Good idea, I have a loose idea for a Mars architecture but It could use some imput

[Rakaydos]

Here's an idea, design your NERVAs to replace the normal upperstage of a Falcon 9/Falconheavy, Vulcan, or other existing launch system. Instead of expending the stage, dock it, refuel it and use it to propel the mars mission. This way it's managing it's own mass and size, helping itself get to orbit, while retaining the utility of existing launch architecture for the lower stages.

[WH40krules]

Good idea, I have a loose idea for a Mars architecture but It could use some imput

Can you give us the rough outline? Although the challenge might have different objectives, it's still a good starting place

- - - Updated - - -

Here's an idea, design your NERVAs to replace the normal upperstage of a Falcon 9/Falconheavy, Vulcan, or other existing launch system. Instead of expending the stage, dock it, refuel it and use it to propel the mars mission. This way it's managing it's own mass and size, helping itself get to orbit, while retaining the utility of existing launch architecture for the lower stages.

So, I did some quick math and came out with a Dv of 2790m/s for a Falcon 9 upper stage re-fitted with a NERVA with an isp of 850 seconds, the dry mass being 4,000kg and wet being 106,600kg.

I couldn't find stats on the Falcon Heavy, I think it's still in development.

Sources : Falcon 9 and NERVA

Edited May 13, 2015 by WH40krules

[Rakaydos]

So, I did some quick math and came out with a Dv of 2790m/s for a Falcon 9 upper stage re-fitted with a NERVA with an isp of 850 seconds, the dry mass being 4,000kg and wet being 106,600kg.

I couldn't find stats on the Falcon Heavy, I think it's still in development.

Sources : Falcon 9 and NERVA

Did you include the payload mass as more fuel? because the point of the design is that you can build the payload bigger because it helps lift itself.

[WH40krules]

Did you include the payload mass as more fuel? because the point of the design is that you can build the payload bigger because it helps lift itself.

No, because I don't know what mass the payload would be. As for the second statement, do you mean it will have fuel for the stage, or what?

[Rakaydos]

No, because I don't know what mass the payload would be. As for the second statement, do you mean it will have fuel for the stage, or what?

Basically taking the entire second stage+ payoad, sticking a NERVA on it, and everything else is fuel tanks for the NERVA, (or scaffolding to mount fuel tanks for the nerva) to be filled in orbit by later flights.

Once in orbit, that upper stage becomes the engine section of a vehical assembeled in orbit. As a functional upper stage, it can be larger/more massive than it could be if it was just a payload.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Rakaydos

[Bill Phil]

I would suggest a variant of von Braun's later Mars concepts. Nuclear tugs, standardized HAB modules, the like.

The goals of the proposal seem a bit stretched...

[Newt]

NASA’s challenge is finding elements that support the logistics and capabilities required for a sustainable permanent human presence beyond Earth’s vicinity. . . . The Solver is asked to describe one or more Mars surface systems/capabilities and operations needed to achieve this goal that are, to the greatest extent possible, technically achievable, economically sustainable, and minimize (ideally, eliminate) reliance on support from Earth.

This does not sound to me like "Design a Mars Program and Vehicle". More like a request for some system to be designed as a sustainable, independant, and feasible tool for such a mission to include. I would more imagine to tackle it as, say, answering a question about basic life on Mars; 'What happens when the wrench breaks and I need to use it?' or 'How do I clean dust off my boots?', not such a grand, full mission as is being hinted at here.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Newt
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[sgt_flyer]

Guess that for 'fast' sustainability, they'll need a way to manufacture all the parts they would need to replace what was damaged - and be able to create new objects. (Earth can still send them the blueprints at first through communications)

For that, the best way to start would be to have several 3d printers (and printers with high quality finish) able to use the local materials - and each of those printers would need to be able to recreate it's own parts. (So if one breaks down, the others can rebuild the parts that broke)

Some specialised machinery would also be needed to build specific things (balls for ball bearings, system to make a lubricant, etc) - again, these would need to be able to be repaired from the 3d printers.

The objective would be to allow them self sufficient tooling / machinery manufacture with all this. Of course, we would need to find ways to create all the kinds of materials (glass like, metals, plastics, wires) from the local resources (so extensive surveys would be required to locate the best spot - alongside a way to have a sustainable source of water, etc)

[ChrisSpace]

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/120135-Pen-and-Paper-Design-SLS-and-Falcon-Heavy-Launched-570-day-Mars-Mission

This is my favorite plan.

[FishInferno]

Can you give us the rough outline? Although the challenge might have different objectives, it's still a good starting place

OK, So Here is what it will look like when all the infrastructure is in place:

-Large LEO refueling depot/station (crew destined for Mars dock here first)

-Large refueling depot/station in Martian orbit

-Reusable Mars landers dock here

-Several large tugs ferry crew and cargo between Mars and Earth stations.

-Manned version has centrifuge to minimize bone loss (as do the stations)

-cargo version is unmanned

-Surface base on Mars that is constantly expanding with cargo shipments

So here is how the mission would be carried out (could probably use tweaking):

-Initial construction of station in LEO. mars station is also assembled in LEO

-MARS MISSION 1: First crew destined for Mars is boosted into Martian orbit along with the station. Once they have arrived, they enter the station and they become "Mars expedition One" or whatever. They remotely operate unmanned rovers on the surface which set up the initial base.

-MM2: Second crew arrives, performs first Martian landing. Finishes setting up initial base. MM1 returns home, and throughout their stay, MM2 performs several expeditions onto the surface. More base modules came with them, so they expand the base.

-MM3: Become the first people to inhabit the base for an extended period of time. they remain on the surface while MM2 continues their mission in orbit.

-MM4: Larger crew, replaces both MM2 and 3, base expansion continues.

-MM5: Large groups of people arrive with tons of cargo; base is no longer just modules. but now actual buildings are starting to be constructed.

and thats as far as i got:)

[sgt_flyer]

Has people read nasa's contest ? it's not about the journey towards mars (except the part to try to imagine active radiation shielding) it's about how to make the mars colony operate almost independently from earth based logistics the soonest possible, to support long duration missions. Basically, once Nasa can determine what they need to bring to mars to reach those objectives, then they can start designing the transfer vehicle - not the other way around !