Mod Cross Compatibility and Support List

[StahnAileron]

Has anyone consider creating a listing of mods that are cross compatible and support the features from one another? I know from the KSP v0.90 experience that many mods support particular plugins, either recommending or requiring other mods to work. (A list like this would also function a s dependency listing too, I suppose.)

My thoughts on this were so players interested in modding their game could find what mods support the gameplay mods they tend to use. As an example, there are plenty of parts-only mods that try to support Feram Aerospace Research (FAR/NEAR), either as recommended or designed for/require it. Then there is stuff like mods that have optional Module Manager, like parts that will support RemoteTech if you have it installed, but will otherwise work like stock. Then there are functional plugin mods that will hook into other plugins.

I figure a list of mods that complement one another would be useful to users so they can pick out the mods they one that build on one another. And perhaps figure out which mods are incompatible with one another (haven't seen too many instances of this though.) Also, I was hoping it could foster more collaboration and integration between modders and mods, respectively. (Not like that doesn't happen already or else this list would be pointless, but a little more shouldn't hurt.)

I was thinking of starting something myself for my own use (because I want/need to track mods so I can catch up on KSP 1.0.x once it stabilizes and the mods I use all support it.) Once I thought of making it public, I fell into the bind of figure out how to coordinate it. Google Docs/MS Office Online spreadsheet? The KSP wiki? Comment and suggestions are welcome.

Anyway, the general idea is for the listing to have a master list of mods on the vertical axis (left side going down) that also includes the mod version and supported KSP version. On the horizontal axis (top going across) would be a list of plugin-based mods that add features/functionality to the game. For the compatibility:

• Incompatible - Known conflicts between the mods. (INC)
  
• No Support - No interaction between the mods, but no conflicts either; mods/plugins are independent of one another. (NS)
  
• In-progress - Some cross interaction implemented, but not really fully supported yet. (WIP)
  
• Supported - Fully supported if plugin installed; optional. (SUPP)
  
• Recommended - Mod author had the plug-in in mind for enhanced experience; still optional (REC)
  
• Preferred - Mod is designed for and works best (fully functional) with the plugin. (PREF)
  
• Required - Dependency; must have plugin installed for functionality. (REQ) <<< In most cases, mod authors tend to include a copy of the required DLLs anyway, but some don't due to file sizes and whatnot.
  

Ideally, the best outcome would be for the modders themselves to update a list like this (they would know their mod best ... hopefully ), but yeah right. They're too busy modding and I'm sure many of us would prefer to KEEP it that way. They have enough problems updating their mods (dealing with Curse, KerbalStuff, AVC, etc... And I won't even start on CKAN support...) So this would be a community project type thing like the KSP wiki (though from the looks of things, not many players seem to use/update the wiki...)

This probably won't get anywhere, but I figure I should throw this out there. It's mainly my love for a handful of mods that I thought of this:

Nertea's mods

FAR/NEAR

QuizTech

RoverDude's Mods

RemoteTech

OPT

SCANSat

Dmagic Orbital Science

MechJeb

TweakScale (though I'm not much of a fan of Tweakscale and don't use it much)

Infernal Robotics

TAC LS

Bahamuto Dynamics

...And probably some others in my gamedata folder I'm forgetting. Many of the mods I listed/use support another one I use, but it's not consistent across the board. (Example: It's a dream of mine to have RT support by ALL drone cores at least. Antennae and dishes too would be AWESOME! << One of the inspirations for this post )

So... Comments? Thoughts? (And if there IS a list like this already, please point me in its direction!)

[smjjames]

Should we include part packs like Novapunch, SpaceY heavy lifters, and Modular Rocket Systems? What about things that are effectively standalone and don't interact or need to interact with other mods like Hangar Extender?

Youre forgetting KER, which works as well with everything as MJ does.

Also, Module Manager which is required for many mods.

[StahnAileron]

I just named a few as examples. A comprehensive list would be the best, but that would be a long-term goal. If this gets off the ground, short-term would be to just hit up as many of the big and popular mods that you tend to always see as a kick-start. We'd expand from there.

As for KER: Last I recall, it's just informational. I don't recall it really interacting with anything else directly from a gameplay perspective. I obviously could be wrong. (I'm still mainly on KSP 0.90 era info, so I'm a bit out of date.)

Anyway, any and all mods are welcome to the list, though priority would be given to mods that actually interact with other mods. It's the primary point of the list. If a mod is unlisted, it's either completely independent, no one really knows of it, the mod author doesn't know about the list, or it's untested. And if a mod is unlisted, perhaps it would give incentive to the mod author to support one or more mods (the secondary aim of this listing.) I'm sure some mods author would love to have more exposure for their mods. Supporting bigger and/or more well known mods would be one way to do that (even if it is riding on a coattails, I guess.) I mean, how many people got fun and joy out of the fact that TAC LS is/was prominently supported by MKS/OKS, B9 was designed for FAR/NEAR, DMagic added parts for Universal Storage, etc.

Oh, and for Module Manager: I'm actually surprised Squad didn't just include it stock as a feature for the modding aspect of the game. It's basically a, if not THE cornerstone of KSP modding outside of pure stock-system parts-only parts. And I know about FireSpitter, BDAnimations, Community Resource Pack, KSPAPI-Extensions etc. (I know I'm missing a few more, but you get the idea.)

Like I said, the goal behind this mod is to let players know which mods would work better/best together for a richer (and hopefully consistent) gameplay experience. The other aim is to foster more collaboration and integration amongst the modding community to support that goal. (Really, I would love to see KSP have something on the scale of mods like the X-tended projects from X3/X:TC).

[YellowApple]

Some of this functionality is already provided by CKAN (I'm not sure about incompatibility detection, though); if not implementing incompatibility detection in CKAN itself, a standalone tool could skip a lot of the grunt work by using CKAN's metadata.

[Diazo]

The thing is, with how KSP's add-on scheme is setup, there are very few mods that are incompatible in that they will not load when installed side-by-side.

Rather, the incompatibilities you run into are when two different mods try to affect the same object in game and that is a much iffier prospect to define what "incompatible" means.

Take my Horizontal Landing Aid mod and MechJeb.

These two mods have absolutely no issue being loaded side-by-side, but for MechJeb's SmartSAS to work, the in-game SAS (T key) must be off. Where-as my mod you must have the in-game SAS enabled for it to work. So are these mods incompatible? You can't have both enabled at once after all.

However, I know there are some players out there who have both installed, MechJeb for most of their flight needs, then my Landing Aid mod for the last 50 meters because it allows you to click a target location on the ground that it will precisely land the vessel on. So these mods are compatible as my landing aid mod offers a feature that mechjeb doesn't and there are players with both installed.

There are a few mods out there that are simply incompatible in that they won't load in the same game, but the majority of the "incompatibilities" out there are gameplay related and I'm not sure how to handle that in a list format as you are proposing.

D.

[StahnAileron]

Well, I'm aiming more for the other end of the spectrum than the incompatibility side. Mods that mesh well together is more the aim for my idea.

I do know there is the also the example of MFT and RealFuels being basically one or the other and should not be both. I think that's usually the case with the various life support mods as well. I also know of some "conflicts" with RT2 and MechJeb in terms of the same gameplay functionality you mentioned: RT2's flight computer will override MJ's autopilots. (I've screwed myself over a few times because I forgot I had RT2's hold direction function engaged.)

In the above cases, a simple chart won't suffice. You'd need notes for that or something. But that's a bit more on the opposite side of the goal I truly want to achieve with my idea. I would like it so that a modder could look at the list, see that another mod is very well supported, and perhaps investigate if his own mod could/should support that other mod because doing so might make sense.

Diazo, in your case, built-in mod support for your AGX mod would be useful: SmartParts, I believe RT2, and of course your own other mods. Another is FAR. Now, I know nuFAR is much better with out of the box functionality for any part mods due to the new voxel-based system, but some players may prefer to use parts that were specifically designed with FAR in mind. (In the same vein, some players may want to avoid FAR-only-based parts if they want a more stock-ish experience.)

So basically I want something where a player thinking, "Hey this mod I have is fun! I wonder if there are other mods like it or that add to it..." could find those other, complementary mods.

Maybe I need to change the thread title. Perhaps it's a bit misleading?

As for CKAN: from my own experience with it and some of the reactions I've seen from other forum posters, CKAN is a third-party hack job of a mod tracker that has it's own issues. Not to offend the devs/maintainers of CKAN, but I tried it and was not at all impressed. KSP-AVC was/is a much better experience for me. And that's just a text file the mod author can update on their own schedule. CKAN users for some reason tend to think they're entitled, whining about why the CKAN version isn't updated the moment the mod is updated HERE in the forums to the modder. (Seriously, if you're a CKAN user and can complain about that, WHY ARE YOU USING CKAN IF YOU'RE ON THE FORUM THAT MUCH?) If anything, TELL THE CKAN MAINTAINERS, don't pester the modders unless you know for a fact they actively support CKAN. (<<< And this is why I stated I wanted my idea to be a community thing and not beholden to the mod authors. They're all offering free content to the game we play. We, as a supportive community, SHOULD NOT take them for granted and feel entitled because we paid SQUAD for the core game.) I've used mod managers for other games before that are minimalistic but fairly decent. Personally, CKAN feels half-assed to me. I shouldn't say anything because I'm not a software dev or programmer, but really, CKAN could be better. (Though it's been about 6 weeks since I last touched it.)

Dammit... Rant... It's late and I need to shut up now.

Edited May 14, 2015 by StahnAileron

[Ippo]

CKAN supports a "conflicts" relationship for incompatible mods, and an optional "supports" relationship that is there exactly to do what the OP wiuld like. It seems few mods use it, though.

[YellowApple]

I was only suggesting referring to CKAN's data for this sort of thing, since a lot of it (particularly when it comes to required/recommended/suggested mods for a given mod) is already tracked on their end and would therefore be less work. Regardless of one's opinions on the qualities of CKAN v. KSP-AVC, it would be a good starting point for such a proposed compatibility/support list. Sorry if I set off a nerve.

[Ippo]

You absolutely did not

A huge factor in the original design of ckan was making our data available for other applications. Sadly, no one has used the opportunity yet, but this would be a great start! All the metadata is public domain, so we encourage every use of it, and we are available for help if you need it

[DMagic]

A good option, if it doesn't already exist, would be the ability to take the "suggests" and "recommends" lists and work backward. Instead of clicking on an addon and having it tell you what that addon supports/suggests/etc..., click on an addon and have it tell you what other mods support it.

Using the existing database and functionality of CKAN seems like a much better option than creating something new.