[1.0.4]Civilian Population 1.7.5.1 (Update to 1.0.5 in Progress)

[rabidninjawombat]

Is there any chance you can make a few of the parts that will not unbalance things be compatible with tweakscale? I was thinking maybe rescalling the old tanks would make them useful again.

Also, a electrolyzer option on something that would allow you to make O2 (and lqd fuel) from water would be really handy.

just as soon as the new version is up I will finalize this and the kerbals are going out into the universe to colonize the frontier. It should carry enough parts to make landers and seed colonies. (I have a special construction ship to produce this on minnimus and launch it into space.)

http://s7.postimg.org/yi20kyuij/image.png

Nice Ship!

Regarding Tweakscale, I'm not against the parts being tweak-scale compatible, Just have never gotten around to doing one, Anyone is welcome to write up a config and send me a pull request and ill be happy to incorporate it.

Regarding a electrolizer, I actually like that idea! Though realistically, it would give you oxygen/Hydrogen (or liquid Hydrogen for fuels sake) Its something that i'd incorporate into a Utility module (ive got some new models im making for a utility/industrial module) It should go hand in hand with a little longer term goal i have of developing specializations for civilians (i.e. Farmers, Doctors, etc)

Hi rabidninjawombat my log file is on my dropbox here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ypws9apuu44cgbs/KSP.log?dl=1

MartinKS, sorry bout the long delay in response (busy weekend) are you still having this issue? Generally it can be related to an install issue, (or possibly an out of memory error, from one having to many mods installed) If you are still having an issue, a screenshot of your GameData folder willl help.

[Profit-]

Nice Ship!

Regarding Tweakscale, I'm not against the parts being tweak-scale compatible, Just have never gotten around to doing one, Anyone is welcome to write up a config and send me a pull request and ill be happy to incorporate it.

I am not sure how to do all that, however I can modify the files very easily as they are just 4 extra lines. If you do not have tweakscale installed they do not harm anything either. I changed the O2 tank and scaled it a few times. The actual change is where this is added at the end of the file. If you were to want to scale inline things they are a bit trickier, but you can do them as well.

MODULE{ name = TweakScale

type = free

}

PART
{
name = t1CivAirTank
module = Part
author = hester


MODEL
  {
    model = NetherdyneAerospace/CivilianManagement/Assets/surfaceAttachTank
    texture = wasteWaterContainer , NetherdyneAerospace/CivilianManagement/Assets/airContainer
//texture = Decal00 , UmbraSpaceIndustries/Kolonization/Assets/Decal07
//texture = Decal00_GLOW , UmbraSpaceIndustries/Kolonization/Assets/Decal07_GLOW
}
rescaleFactor = 1




node_attach = 0.0,0, -.6,  0.0, 0, 1, 2
CrewCapacity = 0


TechRequired = spaceExploration
entryCost = 10400
cost = 1000
category = Utility
subcategory = 0
title = Small Gas Tank
manufacturer = Netherdyne Home Gardening Center
description = Store a rather substantial amount of CO2 and O2 here.


attachRules = 0,1,0,0,1


mass = .5


dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.1
minimum_drag = 0.1
angularDrag = 2
crashTolerance = 12
maxTemp = 2900
//todo: calbriate these to 1 day worth of food/water
    RESOURCE{
        name = Oxygen  
        amount = 4256
        maxAmount = 4256
    }




    RESOURCE{
        name = CarbonDioxide  
        amount = 0
        maxAmount = 3075
    }

    MODULE{
    name = TweakScale
    type = free
    }
}

Edited October 12, 2015 by Profit-

[rabidninjawombat]

I am not sure how to do all that, however I can modify the files very easily as they are just 4 extra lines. If you do not have tweakscale installed they do not harm anything either. I changed the O2 tank and scaled it a few times. The actual change is where this is added at the end of the file. If you were to want to scale inline things they are a bit trickier, but you can do them as well.

MODULE{ name = TweakScale

type = free

}

http://s22.postimg.org/by5vcmii9/image.png

Nice Ill see about putting tweakscale support in (at least for structural and tank parts) in the next patch.

Though the best way to add support for tweakscale (if implemented) would be through a module manager file. its easy to do if you have never done it. Something like this:

(in its own textfile, labled "whatever".cfg

@PART[[COLOR=#333333]t1CivAirTank]:NEEDS[Tweakscale]
{
[/COLOR]   MODULE
   { 
    name = TweakScale
    type = free
   }[COLOR=#333333]
}

This way it work only if you or someone else has Tweakscale installed, in addition , your config changes dont get overwritten when there is a mod update.

[Profit-]

Nice Ill see about putting tweakscale support in (at least for structural and tank parts) in the next patch.

Though the best way to add support for tweakscale (if implemented) would be through a module manager file. its easy to do if you have never done it. Something like this:

(in its own textfile, labled "whatever".cfg

@PART[[COLOR=#333333]t1CivAirTank]:NEEDS[Tweakscale]
{
[/COLOR]   MODULE
   { 
    name = TweakScale
    type = free
   }[COLOR=#333333]
}

[/COLOR]

This way it work only if you or someone else has Tweakscale installed, in addition , your config changes dont get overwritten when there is a mod update.

Ahh I have to admit, I have only tinkered with things =) Glad there is a better way!

[eevenson]

I have this beast on the launch pad -- but it doesn't seem to be growing the population. Why? Thanks for the great mod!

[rabidninjawombat]

I have this beast on the launch pad -- but it doesn't seem to be growing the population. Why? Thanks for the great mod!

https://photos-6.dropbox.com/t/2/AADVAecyNbW9u6iKvL95ecYQlKuqd3NyYqajpnzuLXcGpg/12/6779408/png/32x32/1/_/1/2/Screen%20Shot%202015-10-12%20at%208.31.22%20PM.png/EJ3ThQUYjLo4IAEoAQ/5fG-0zA_5dWMc0joSv1SZjxwXF5k6VR7IQs1oJBsHmg?size=1024x768&size_mode=2

Picture link is broken You might not have a Civilian dock, but cant be sure till ya fix the pic (try Imgur)

[eevenson]

Picture link is broken You might not have a Civilian dock, but cant be sure till ya fix the pic (try Imgur)

Why do I need a dock for population growth?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/667gvko4xw4so14/Screen%20Shot%202015-10-12%20at%208.31.22%20PM.png?dl=0

- - - Updated - - -

I thought all I needed was what was pictured in your docs: "The pictured land crawler shows everything you need to maintain your civilian population and to grow it. Left to right: mining container, garden, fertilizer for garden, Civilian pod, laser drill."

[rabidninjawombat]

Why do I need a dock for population growth?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/667gvko4xw4so14/Screen%20Shot%202015-10-12%20at%208.31.22%20PM.png?dl=0

- - - Updated - - -

I thought all I needed was what was pictured in your docs: "The pictured land crawler shows everything you need to maintain your civilian population and to grow it. Left to right: mining container, garden, fertilizer for garden, Civilian pod, laser drill."

You dont need a dock for civilians to reproduce, but reproduction is slow. With a minimum of 20 civilians, they will reproduce, but slowly,3 months per civilian at 20 pop, lowering as you get more. (small note, if you arnt already make sure you on 1.7.5 latest version, as there was a small bug with reproduction)

If your ship is planned for the Kerbin system (or Mun or Minmus) you can include a civilian dock, (orbital, landing pad or radial) and Civilians will immigrate to you station or base, at a MUCH faster rate than reproduction, provided you are in the net positive for food production, they wont come to starving station

So really no reason NOT to have a civilian dock if you are in the Kerbin or its moons SOI

You wont see the civilians arrive (they come via civilian transport), Civilian numbers will tick up.

Edited October 13, 2015 by rabidninjawombat

[eevenson]

You dont need a dock for civilians to reproduce, but reproduction is slow. With a minimum of 20 civilians, they will reproduce, but slowly,3 months per civilian at 20 pop, lowering as you get more. (small note, if you arnt already make sure you on 1.7.5 latest version, as there was a small bug with reproduction)

If your ship is planned for the Kerbin system (or Mun or Minmus) you can include a civilian dock, (orbital, landing pad or radial) and Civilians will immigrate to you station or base, at a MUCH faster rate than reproduction, provided you are in the net positive for food production, they wont come to starving station

So really no reason NOT to have a civilian dock if you are in the Kerbin or its moons SOI

You wont see the civilians arrive (they come via civilian transport), Civilian numbers will tick up.

So my point here was to make sure my plans for a interplanetary ship worked with regard to population growth -- so docks are out.

I did wait at least 6 months to see an increase in population. I also thought that I would see a non-zero growth rate in the right-click menu if things were working.

Here are my version stats courtesy of CKAN:

KSP Version: 1.0.4

Installed Modules:

- CivilianPopulation 1:1.7.5

- CommunityResourcePack 0.4.4

- EditorExtensions 2.12

- ExtraPlanetaryLaunchpads 5.2.2

- InfernalRobotics v0.21.3

- IR-Model-Rework-Core v01b

- IR-Model-Rework-Expansion v01b

- KAS 0.5.4

- KerbalAlarmClock v3.4.0.0

- KerbalEngineerRedux 1.0.18.0

- KerbalStats 2.0.0

- KIS 1.2.2

- MechJeb2 2.5.3

- ModuleManager 2.6.8

- ThrottleControlledAvionics 2.3.0.1

- Toolbar 1.7.9

- TweakScale v2.2.1

[rabidninjawombat]

So my point here was to make sure my plans for a interplanetary ship worked with regard to population growth -- so docks are out.

I did wait at least 6 months to see an increase in population. I also thought that I would see a non-zero growth rate if things were working.

Here are my version stats courtesy of CKAN:

No worries, already found the issue ,Just a small bug, already got it fixed and uploading a hotfix now.

(basically didnt think about a ship within Kerbin SOI without a civi dock, cause no reason not to )

Didn't think about testing the craft on kerbin itself. If you had hyperedited the craft out to an outerplanet for example the reproduction woulda been fine.

My apologizes! Complete oversite from me. Gives me a chance to also throw up the animation fix for the small reactor anyway. Give it two minutes and you'll have a hotfix uploaded.

Also yea, if things are in the red for example, you will see the Population Decay Timer turn from being 0 , to counting down as your civilians die.

Edited October 13, 2015 by rabidninjawombat

[eevenson]

No worries, already found the issue ,Just a small bug, already got it fixed and uploading a hotfix now.

(basically didnt think about a ship within Kerbin SOI without a civi dock, cause no reason not to )

Didn't think about testing the craft on kerbin itself. If you had hyperedited the craft out to an outerplanet for example the reproduction woulda been fine.

My apologizes! Complete oversite from me. Gives me a chance to also throw up the animation fix for the small reactor anyway. Give it two minutes and you'll have a hotfix uploaded.

Also yea, if things are in the red for example, you will see the Population Decay Timer turn from being 0 , to counting down as your civilians die.

Awesome -- thanks for this. I rank this mod in the top 3 for required gameplay. FYI, I saw the same behavior for the same craft sitting on Minmus.

[rabidninjawombat]

1.7.5.1 Update

What's this? A Biodome for ants?!

Small update include:

• Fix for craft within Kerbin SOI without Civilian Docking ports.
  
• Fixed animation on small reactor (you may need to turn it off and restart for it to take effect, not sure)
  
• Added tweakscale config (for all storage and structural parts, no production or habitation parts at this time)
  

Download as always on the front page

[Profit-]

I finally put the finishing touches on my Interstellar Seed Colony. I have a exoplanetary launchpad on minmus to get it off the ground... This sucker is massive... I dont really know how to get the scale across other than this....

My kerbal who is going to captain the ship.

The ship. With him standing on it....

[rabidninjawombat]

Awesome -- thanks for this. I rank this mod in the top 3 for required gameplay. FYI, I saw the same behavior for the same craft sitting on Minmus.

Yup minmuns being within the Kerbin SOI woulda been affected, so this update should fix it

Download and let me know, Your reproduction rate should now be >1 (provided you have 20 civilians)

Note: You'll need to grab it manually, as CKAN wont grab it for a couple hours at the least, usually

- - - Updated - - -

I finally put the finishing touches on my Interstellar Seed Colony. I have a exoplanetary launchpad on minmus to get it off the ground... This sucker is massive... I dont really know how to get the scale across other than this....

My kerbal who is going to captain the ship.

http://s27.postimg.org/4l6u50d5r/image.jpg

The ship. With him standing on it....

http://s7.postimg.org/fd5lk5lm3/image.png

Hah! that is one heck of a ship! See the above post for an update with a new tweakscale config! I know you requested one

[Profit-]

Awesome =) Thank you!

[eevenson]

The Kerbal procreation crisis is over! Thanks -- the fix works.

[MartinKS]

MartinKS, sorry bout the long delay in response (busy weekend) are you still having this issue? Generally it can be related to an install issue, (or possibly an out of memory error, from one having to many mods installed) If you are still having an issue, a screenshot of your GameData folder willl help.

Don't worry about it, I'm in no rush. Below is my gamedata folder - though I've removed your folder for now to get the game to load:

Don't think it should be out of memory, but I'm using the steam version of the game, so it's only 32 bit!

[rabidninjawombat]

Don't worry about it, I'm in no rush. Below is my gamedata folder - though I've removed your folder for now to get the game to load:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gun9dnmqvzmzqwp/folder.JPG?dl=1

Don't think it should be out of memory, but I'm using the steam version of the game, so it's only 32 bit!

No thats a pretty small mod load, you shouldn't be having memory issues. You should delete older version of Module Manager (just keep the latest) though that not really an issues.

I don't see the Netherdyne Aerospace folder. Is it uninstalled im assuming? If so , go ahead and reinstall it, make sure its installed as GameData\NetherDyneAerospace\CivilianManagment, This should be how its in the zip file (or though Ckan) and go for it again, and tell me how it work.

[MartinKS]

You're right, I uninstalled it - while I was running the game though I took a peak at task manager - looks like you're right about it being out of memory, it's up at 2GB (which I think is the limit for a 32 bit game?)

[Varsi]

You're right, I uninstalled it - while I was running the game though I took a peak at task manager - looks like you're right about it being out of memory, it's up at 2GB (which I think is the limit for a 32 bit game?)

The limit where game crashes is around 3.7-3.8GB so you're not even close to that.

[rabidninjawombat]

Alright folks! I'm currently working on a new sub module to CivPop which will add Civilian Specialties (a.k.a. Jobs ) to your civilians.

What id like, from anyone who uses the mod, is some jobs that you would like to see, or feel that fit. Any suggestions welcome.

What I have so far:

Job bonuses:

• Farmer - .5% bonus increase in food growth
  
• Doctor - .5% bonus to kerbal health (if a feature like this is added to USI or TAC) else increases reproduction rate
  
• Professor - bonus to producing of education (in university)
  
• Recruiter - Lowers cost of recruiting Kerbonauts.
  
• Manager/Landlord - slightly increases Civi Rent (or for sandbox, increase population limit)
  

I have it coded right now, so each building will be limited to the number of specialists you can hold (i.e. you will have (x) number of slots for farmers per farm/hydrosphere, etc.

Currently the setup is plan so that you can obtain Specialists in 2 ways. First you can train them via the university, time and resource consuming. Or second, you can recruit them via the UI (not implemented till 1.1) this will be quick, but costs a decent amount of funds.

Edited October 16, 2015 by rabidninjawombat

[Profit-]

Broker - With a civilian dock in Kerbal SOI allows you to purchase O2/Water/Substrate, every one extra hired gives a small discount after the first to a floor price.

Manager - Slightly increases credits from "rent"

Gather/Recycler/Scrapper - Brings in a small stream of a selected resource gathered from junk in space and small comets and the like. ( would recommend including the metal resource in this for exoplanetary launchpads)

Trader - With a civilian dock allows you to sell or exchange resources

One other thought... The rent seems a bit bland now.. I was thinking it might seem more encouraging if you had an SOI multiplier variable. like maybe 10 kerbals in Kerbin low orbit might only be 1000 rent from the default 1x multiplier but in Jool orbit they could bring in 10,000 or something from a 10x SOI multipler.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Profit-

[rabidninjawombat]

Broker - With a civilian dock in Kerbal SOI allows you to purchase O2/Water/Substrate, every one extra hired gives a small discount after the first to a floor price.

Manager - Slightly increases credits from "rent"

Gather/Recycler/Scrapper - Brings in a small stream of a selected resource gathered from junk in space and small comets and the like. ( would recommend including the metal resource in this for exoplanetary launchpads)

Trader - With a civilian dock allows you to sell or exchange resources

One other thought... The rent seems a bit bland now.. I was thinking it might seem more encouraging if you had an SOI multiplier variable. like maybe 10 kerbals in Kerbin low orbit might only be 1000 rent from the default 1x multiplier but in Jool orbit they could bring in 10,000 or something from a 10x SOI multipler.

I like the Manager, which ill most definitely include! Good Call. (for science / Sandbox games i can have this job increase civilian population limit or something like that)

Trader/Gatherer would require some extra code built in to allow for resources to come in. Which would also only be useful in Career mode(the purchasing part, as funds dont exist in science /sandbox) . Not sure on something like that. Ill noodle it over.

In regards to rent scaling based on SOI, thats something that is definitely on the way. Should be in by the next patch actually (as its a seperate module from this specialization system) It will most likely be based on distance from Kerbin (not on actual SOI) otherwise it will run into issues supporting planet packs.

I just have to work the exact numbers so that its fair and not too overpowered.

Edited October 16, 2015 by rabidninjawombat

[Profit-]

I like the Manager, which ill most definitely include! Good Call. (for science / Sandbox games i can have this job increase civilian population limit or something like that)

Trader/Gatherer would require some extra code built in to allow for resources to come in. Which would also only be useful in Career mode(the purchasing part, as funds dont exist in science /sandbox) . Not sure on something like that. Ill noodle it over.

In regards to rent scaling based on SOI, thats something that is definitely on the way. Should be in by the next patch actually (as its a seperate module from this specialization system) It will most likely be based on distance from Kerbin (not on actual SOI) otherwise it will run into issues supporting planet packs.

I just have to work the exact numbers so that it fair and no too overpowered.

Sounds awesome.

[Tralfagar]

With specialists, how easily do you want bases to be self-sufficient without Kerbals coming in to bring supplies? Put another way, do you want farmers and agricultural engineers to be necessary for self-sufficiency and one of the only specialties to produce more than they consume?

Some examples of what I mean:

If you want them to be necessary, I would make some careers into a tree of specialization. A farmer/botanist is able to produce more food than other civilians while in the farms. After a while he has gained enough hands-on experience and can specialize. let's say there are two jobs that he can do: Either he can focus on sanitation engineering (mulch/waste) or he can focus on the food chain engineering (food/supplies), giving a larger bonus to one or the other at the cost of specializing in one. So if you had two farmer that could specialize, instead of giving a small bonus to both, one farmer could specialize in a field giving a 10% increase in food growth while the other specializes in a field giving a 10% reduction in waste production for a cumulative bonus higher than if neither had specialized.

Then on the other side of the production chain, a recruiter could start off managing Kerbals for a small deduction of recruitment cost. After a while, he can go into being a manager and retain the bonus of recruiter increase the amount of civilians that can be kept on the station (e.g. that broom closet would make a great 1-bedroom studio with the right attitude...that wall can be moved a few feet back to meet code). Or he could go into advertisement and increase the rate civilians come to your stations. But the larger responsibility comes at a cost: He's taken up binge eating and consumes about 1.25x what a base civilian does (requiring more ag).

Just some thoughts. It really depends what your vision is and how much you want to implement.